Connect the dots - missile & sub

Originally posted by Use your brain
In response to the OP:

There's really no way to be sure at this point, but I wouldn't suspect a Russian or Chinese nuclear submarine to perform a surface launch anywhere near that close to our shore.

I would suspect one of our own subs, coming from any number of naval bases on the West Coast, of conducting an ICBM firing test before I would a foreign military. IF this was indeed a missile launch, and not an optical illusion stemming from an incoming airliner, I would place the responsibility on our government. I know they admitted that they had "no idea" what caused this, but I have a feeling a nuclear powered submarine with nuclear ICBMs is something they don't want to openly discuss.

I'm not saying this is the truth, because like you all, I really don't know. I would just bet my .02 on any submarine-deployed missiles to come from one of our own.

That or someone decided to build their own nasa program...I find it odd that the object was not picked up on radar (to my knowledge), as NORAD would be lit up like a christmas tree if an ICBM-sized missile was airborne anywhere near our territory.

edit on 10-11-2010 by Use your brain because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-11-2010 by Use your brain because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-11-2010 by Use your brain because: (no reason given)

I have also considered that it was our own missile, and for some reason, we aren't being told. If that's the case, the reason concerns me. We have had ICBM capabilities, including from subs, for a long time, so that would not seem to be a secret.

Also considered that it could have been a private NASA-type thing, and suspect if that's the case, we would never hear about it, as the fact that they had no idea it was happening would be too big an embarrassment.

Still, since starting this thread, I have seen links for subs from China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia, all off our coast. Two of those reports are quite reliable, and the other two could be (though I don't personally know how reputable the sources are). Given all that, at least the possibility that it could have been from some other country should be considered. It bothers me that the government states it was not an enemy launch, but they still can't say what it was, if it was recovered, etc. How, if they don't know what it was, or haven't located it, do they KNOW it wasn't someone less than friendly? That's what bugs me the most.

reply to post by Use your brain

Something in your mentioning NORAD gave me pause... Did any of you ever hear a definitive explanation for the recent "Fireballs" over US/Canadian airspace being tracked by NASA. What were they? Did they land and go BOOM? Were they from outer space or... over seas? I hope-n-pray there's not dot to connect surrounding this.

Also, mighty convenient for POTUS to have that handy-dandy bomb-proof tunnel to keep him safe from explosions when he's not hole up in the freakin Taj Mahal! On the opposite side of the globe during all these shenanigans, no less!

Heavens t' Betsy, I need to take a break from these conspiracies, ladies & gents!

reply to post by new_here


Rather convenient that he isn't around, eh? Would almost bet good money (if we still had any such thing) that he doesn't even mention the incident, or, if he does, it's to make himself look good somehow, or to try and blame it on his political foes.

How on earth could you ever connect the dots !!

Could it have been SO's thread in RATS from a supposed chinese news agency which say's the missile was from a chinese sub !!!

because before today, nobody thought that to be a possibility.

I'll just add that the guy who edits the Jane's line of books, including Jane's guide to missles, said that he was positive it was a missle. He would know since his job is making identification books for the militaries and civilians.

He also said he thought it came from a submarine most likely. So he's got a pretty good idea what's what.

That's all I'll add and that there is a thread somewhere on here discussing what he said already. You can look it up if you want to know more. But he seems to positive it is a missle and from a sub sooo...

At this moment I am simply wondering what the heffalumps is going on with the world? it does feel a shift (change of approach/policy) has happened.. talk of currency war from UKs PM going into the G20 underlines what ATSers have been saying for a little while now.

It seems nations are going down the protectionist route, which as some have said means a "begger thy neighbour" approach, which some nations out there are not going to like and will respond with multi-level threats.

So i would expect some strange appearances/moves by all the major players involved.. and in this case I can't help but feel the launch off california was from a US sub and was aimed at covering up the fact that a Chinese sub appeared undectected near the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk. which IMHO is equal to, tho not as news worthy as a missile launch off California.

Since both show our defences not what they should be, I defniatly find the whole thing disconcerting.. not just the fact that we have this supposed currency war, but that China is backing up her stance with an overly military move.

My betting is that we will see a few more of these incidents..

connect the dots:

China's stealth sub popping up next to US Carrier (2007)

US "accidentally" sends nuke parts to taiwan (march 2008) (taiwan being a long time target/enemy of china)

China blocks Iran nuclear sanction (september 2008)

"UFO" over Beijing, airports are closed (september 2009)

US anounces 6 billions weapons sale to taiwan (january 2010)

Deepwater Horizon blows up (April 2010)

Oil Spill in China (Dalian Harbour) after a pipeline explodes (July 2010)

China reduces rare earth exports, driving prices up, being a monopolist in the field (august 2010)

US heritage foundation is concerned about EMP vulnerability (august 2010)
US looses tracks of 50 nukes (october 2010)

Mystery Missile over Cali (10/09/2010)

Chinese cargo ship, loaded with nickel, sinks (11/09/2010)

Where do you wanna go tomorrow ??

China does not want to provoke a war or show its might. It would be a stupid move to fire off a missile for show.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by new_here

 

Rather convenient that he isn't around, eh? Would almost bet good money (if we still had any such thing) that he doesn't even mention the incident, or, if he does, it's to make himself look good somehow, or to try and blame it on his political foes.

Yes, LadyGreenEyes, I think you are spot-on here. I have about given up on US mainstream media reporting known facts as well! Ocasionally, other countries clue us into stuff, but then again, it's getting to where you just don't know whose word to trust at all! Sad, isn't it?

1993:

The Loral catalog of weapons for sale included the ARMY MLRS
missile, the AIM-9 Sidewinder and the Chaparral air defense
missile. In addition, the Loral catalog offered the very latest
in electronics

1999:

The Chinese military took quick notice of the U.S. carriers, and in 1999 the communist army Office of the Central Military Command wrote a report on future nuclear combat with the United States.

"China is not only a big country, but also possesses a nuclear arsenal that has long since been incorporated into the state warfare system and played a real role in our national defense," states the Chinese military commission report.

"During last crisis across the Taiwan Straits, the U.S. tried to blackmail us with their aircraft carrier(s), but when their spy satellites confirmed that our four nuclear submarines which used to be stationed at Lushun Harbor had disappeared, those politicians addicted to the Taiwan card could not imagine how worried their military commanders were," notes the Chinese army report.

2002:

Chinese general told threat against U.S.
unacceptable
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The White House told a visiting Chinese general yesterday that
comments he made in 1995 suggesting China would use nuclear
weapons against Los Angeles were unacceptable.

2010:

mysterious missile launch off the southern California coast

reply to post by svetlana84


EXCELLENT summary of recent US/China events! S&F!

another quote: "War [with the United States] is inevitable; we cannot avoid it," said Chinese Defense Minister Gen. Chi Haotian in 2000. "The issue is that the Chinese armed forces must control the initiative in this war."

And I just stumbled over the Clinton/Chinagate in another Forum here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Its like everywhere; the deeper you go, the fishier the smell.

Coming to this thread discussion late, just noticed it and always like LadyGreenEyes's thoughts.

I have seen alot of airplane contrails.....in addition to one time having been a student pilot and airplane lover, I was also a certified aerial observer in the Civil Air Patrol. In addition as a space/plane junkie I have seen literally hundreds of films of rocket launches from various distances. I am 99.9% certain that was a missile by viewing the video. Yes some contrails from some angles at certain times of day can look like a rocket or missile....but watching the video two things stood out. 1) It just seemed to fast to be a plane and contrail. I suppose the zoom on the camera could account for that, but personally I don't think so. 2). The amount of "plume/contrail and the rate it was coming out, along with the flash (which could have been sunlight reflecting of the airplane, but I have seen that many times. Whenever planes fly over, low or high, I always look, ID if possible, and use binoculars if necessary and again I just don't think that explaines it.. The video didn't look like sunlight at all.

Second....as soon as I heard about the event, I wondered if we were testing an SLBM in the area (it was near/in a naval weapons test center). Typically, if not always, a NOTAM is issued (notice to airman).I could not find one for that area at the time of launch. Interesting there were some within an hour of the event. I susupect, that if this was a missile launch, that the Navy was in the process of getting ready to go search the area and sending a NOTAM for everyone else to stay away.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is the thread were I posted the links to the NOTAMs

Also, someone said if it was a missile we would have ships and aircraft on it instantly...not likely. This isn't the cold war anymore, and so I highly doubt there are significant ASW (anti submarine warfare) assets on alert and ready to go like in the 80's. Maybe 1 or 2 P-3s on each coast. Same thing with ASW destroyers...maybe a couple on each coast that could be ready to sortie in 12 or so hours. Only a few Air National Guard Air Defense fighters (usually F-16s/F-15s) are on air defense alert on any given time (without upping alert status). And by the time they get in the air and into the area, the missile is gone, the sub has gone deep and quiet, and figher jets are equipped and armed to deal with air threats, not surface or sub surface threats.