US Military needs to be bigger!

Originally posted by cyberdude78
How about we just get better training. Its not like you can just buy soldiers without draft. But you can improve on the ones you have. Spend that cash on better weapons and training.

thats the way to think man!
we done that and our army is great(except for the equipment and under strength)

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by cyberdude78
How about we just get better training. Its not like you can just buy soldiers without draft. But you can improve on the ones you have. Spend that cash on better weapons and training.

thats the way to think man!
we done that and our army is great(except for the equipment and under strength)

The problem is not recruiting - it is the congressionally set limit to the size of active duty forces.

For example - even though the Air Force is facing record deployments, it has to reduce it's force by 18,000 people by the end of the next fiscal year to meet congressional standards. Therefore they are practically begging some people to leave (some service commitments have been shortened by up to 4 years or completely waived)... They are turning away fine recruits becuase there simply is no room for them.

You can train all you want unless you have some numbers its not going to do you much good. especially if your going up against a somewhat modern large military.

There needs to be some balance true but I would prefer to sway towards better training. I well trained soldier who knows what there doing could eliminate a large number of soldiers without adequete training.

You could have millions of troops but a few well placed nukes would clear that problem.The next large scale war will not be in a war zone that requires one to one fighting.America is well placed to cope with small to medium scale deployments large scale is taken care of by Nato and UN.Unless America is planing to take on the world large force is not required.If that were to happen it cause nukes to be used.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
our military has to be big not doubt about that and if people don't want to volunteer well then we have to make it mandatory service or bring back the draft because frankly some Americans are just too lazy they need to get off their...and go fight for the country in a time of war.

So what is your experience with war?

Originally posted by UK Wizard
The US increasing the size of its military is pointless, the cold war is over wake up, hundreads of thousands of troops are not needed, its the intelligence gathering and the secret services that are too small.
Terrorism is not a army its a cell, you need a larger secret servce to deal with its growing threat

Too true. We need to up our special ops and such, to infiltrate and assasinate these fool. We dont need more troops overseas. We need more troops at home. We need to close down all these useless, outdated bases in Europe, korea, and Japan, and bring the troops home. Plain and simple.

East Coast Kid is right as well. We drew down our forces, but failed also to draw down our world commitment. Once the Soviet Union fell, our place in the world was pretty much over with, and it was time to focus on the home front and such.

We dont need more troops, because we dont need more wars. We need LESS. We need more troops at home to be put on border security details, to patrol our borders and coastlines, not patrol everyone elses.

This recall is a bad sign of things to come. The last thing we need is a drafted army of the unwilling.

For the past decade I've been saying we should bring our troops home from Western Europe and put them in bases along our borders. That approach would be two-pronged: It would boost the local economies here at home and it would also greatly enhance our border security. Ain't no one hoppin the fence or fordin' the river with an APC (50 cal. mounted) staring them down on our side.

In light of 9-11, you'd think our citizens would be clamouring for such protection. Our leaders are not remotely serious about border control, however. Makes you wonder who's side their really on?

Our troops should definitely be pulled out of South Korea! If we brought them home (as well as those in Europe) and used them as a refresher force for our duel quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, we would have no need to bother with the IRR and could also relieve the guard and reserves of their overextensions.

btw, I am utterly opposed to sending our National Guard anywhere overseas. That is NOT what they were established to do. These fools in charge of today's military know nothing of history, the constitution or the military they govern. It's an abomination!

America will never locate it`s forces back to the US.the cost to deploy around the world without any forward operating base would be huge and if permission was not granted from a friendly country deployment and resupply would be impossible and would make the states extremely vunerable to attack.Look at Cuba do you really thing the presidant would sleep easy if they pulled out of there.You now what the saying about keeping you enemies as friends.America in South Korea is well placed to show to the north the strength of it`s millitary and you now instantly when the north are deploying and a you are well place to counter a threat.

South Korea should deal with the North. NOT US. South Korea;s security is of no real consequence to us.

We do not need bases in case of deployment. New technoligies are making it alot easier to deploy from alot further. Keeping US bases open abroad just in case is NOT worth the cost.

North Korea poses a huge threat to America.the south is not capable of fighting the north without US.There has yet to be a way of using technology to depoloy large scale troops to a war zone quick enought to be effective.Don`t you remember Vietnam.Rapid deployment is one of the major problems to overcome at the begin of hostilities.Remember Pearl Harbour.The Americans have learn`t lessons the hard way and have overcome them.Deployment in forward areas severly hampers threats from possible enemies.In chess you always move the porns first and spread out.What chance do you think America would have if North Korea moved into the South.Which would cut of the Indian ocean area.China could deploy through the pacific and Korea would be free to sail through the Atlantic into cuba and south America unchallenged.You could not deploy troops in surrounding areas in sufficent numbers safely to be effective.A large nuclear attack on the American mainland would destroy your capabillity.It is not like the movies china can deploy the nukes without any early warnings to America.There are countermeasures in place that would prevent America from knowing they had armed there weapons.The first warning would be after launch and if all your troops are in one country it would be to late to counterattack without using Nukes.If china Korea and cuba were to be close enough to the US this would result in you unable to effectively counter suficiantly to win.China has at the moment sub s off the coast of America.

Um, dude, you need a serious geography lesson. The Indian Ocean is no where near North Korea. North Korea taking over the South certainly would cut off access to Korea, and thats about it...which i dont see as any sort of a threat.

Besides, you seem to forget that we dont have to do the dirty work ourselves. Ever heard of JAPAN? They are right there staring at Korea. re Arm them, and yes THEY could give North Korea one hell of a headache. save us money and let the Japanese handle some of our problems for us.

I'm a military brat, and my father was part of the downsizing effort when they did not approve his promotion from Major to Lt Col. It began with simple base closures around the US about 8 years ago and then progressed to soldiers. It's funny that around this same time, it's been about 6 years since he's been retired, the Army ad campaign made a shift to "An Army of One." With advancements in technology and recruitment levels subdued, I think the army made the decision that they were going to become a more cohesive and bonded unit, while also emphasizing the capabilities and provisions than one man can be professionaly responsible for.

I think it was a bold move and perhaps a bit to soon. With the calling of 5,600 Ready Reserve soldiers, clearly something was amiss in our strategic planning sessions that took place a few years prior or else we would not be in this present situation. It's also of intrest to note that if you retire, techincally the army can recall you at any time if they require your skills, so maybe that's the next step. Who all thinks that the dreaded five letter word, dare I say it....D-R-A-F-T...will occur?

I have no shame in saying that I would rather move away or go to prison than commit myself to a war I do not support (politicly speaking). I've "done my time" in the military as a child...

Originally posted by weirdo
North Korea poses a huge threat to America.the south is not capable of fighting the north without US.There has yet to be a way of using technology to depoloy large scale troops to a war zone quick enought to be effective.Don`t you remember Vietnam.Rapid deployment is one of the major problems to overcome at the begin of hostilities.

Let go of your dogma regarding North Korea. As long as we have bases in Japan and our Navy's out there close by, they're no threat to us. Skadi's right on the technology point.

You ever served with a rapid deployment division?

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
I'm a military brat, and my father was part of the downsizing effort when they did not approve his promotion from Major to Lt Col. It began with simple base closures around the US about 8 years ago and then progressed to soldiers.

It started in '91 after the Gulf War. I was there. I saw it first-hand.

It's funny that around this same time, it's been about 6 years since he's been retired, the Army ad campaign made a shift to "An Army of One."

Army of One is the most idiotic slogan for the Army I have ever heard. The very notion of it goes against everything we were taught. One. Alone. You learn quick (in a real Army) that NO ONE can make it alone. EVERYONE needs help every now and then. But then look at who was in control of the military when that BS came about. Clinton and Bush have done everything wrong with our military and they are paying the price. I guess that's what happens when pinheads and punks who have no real military experience are put in charge. It's a damn shame.

It's also of intrest to note that if you retire, techincally the army can recall you at any time if they require your skills,

You got an Army Reg or presidential directive to back that statement up?

I have no shame in saying that I would rather move away or go to prison than commit myself to a war I do not support (politicly speaking). I've "done my time" in the military as a child...

You have every right to feel that way. No one should ever be forced to fight for an illegal war of aggression.

I never stated that Korea was near the Indian ocean.South Korea has the largest American force in that area That is why you guys are there.Please read what l have written.D you really believe Japan is capable of defending in that area.Please do some research.to save you time to learn.

JAPAN

ground defeance force 180,000 personnel.
Navy 50 destroyers 16 subs 170 aircraft
Airforce 46,000 personnel 400 fighter/combat aircraft 300 fighter aircraft.


CHINA

Ground force 1.87 million personnel
Navy 290,000 personnel 60 destroyers,56 subs,40 amphibious landing craft 200 reserve landing craft non military but can be used by military when required.
Airforce 370,000 personnel 5 bomber divisions,45 air defeance divisions 6 attack divs,2 transports divs 17 air defeance divs,1 airbourne army divs approx 20,000 troops.

China currently has the largest military force in the world.Japan has one of the smallest and no combat experiance within the larst 50 years.Dop you really believe Japan could defend herself against China.America would be hard pushed to fight China without the help of the rest of the world.Please come down from the sky and do some research before being all patriotic and self believeing.If north Korea invaded the south it would allow north korea to become the second strongest nation in that area and with its plans to become a nuclear power could control that area.This would increase the threat to american interests in that area.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by weirdo]

Hey EastCoastKid,
Here's a link to that information. I posted it off of what my father told me when we discussed the recall, but I was able to find support here:
www.military.com... 67%2C00.html
I'm behind you 100% on the Army of One thing - like I said earlier, the idea is good but the blatent message declared in the slogan itself is a horrible anecdote to what they are trying to get across.

Before my father retired he worked in the Army's Marketing/Advertising/Recruitment department, helping to build the image of the Army as a team and shortly after he retired they scrapped it for what we have now

Originally posted by weirdo
South Korea has the largest American force in that area

Wrong. Japan carries the largest amount of US forces in that region.

You should have more faith in the ability of the US Navy. It can handle whatever need arises on the Korean peninsula. Trust me. There is no need for our "speed-bump" force there, especially considering the staggering need for troops elsewhere. To think they're still needed in S. Korea is to be hopelessly trapped in the cold war mindset.

The South Koreans don't even want us there anymore. Why can't we honor their desire for re-approachment? It's their country, let them call the shots.





[edit on 30-6-2004 by weirdo]

Thanks for the link. I don't think it'll be invoked anytime soon. As it states:

In an event where Congress declares a state of war or national emergency, the Secretary of Defense can authorize the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force to recall retired military personnel. Retirees may be recalled up to age 64 for general officers, age 62 for Warrant Officers, and age 60 for all others. Retirees are placed into one of three categories for recall purposes.
www.military.com... 67%2C00.html

Congress hasn't had the balls to declare war since WW2!

When I first heard about the Shinseki's Army of One slogan, I was just disgusted. And don't get me started on everyone being issued berets (at the same time)!!! That one really burns me up.

We need a bigger military and we cannot call all of our troops at home at the same time that is insane its a signal to our enemies that were not there and they will attack so we need more troops to cover our foreign bases and to have enough at the same time to fight a war if numbers didn't star increasing it will either be mandatory service or draft I don't have a problem with that but why do so many people?