The new Banana Republic -- the USofA

I would like to apologize to all the people here who think the only people who aren't rich are lazy. The only debt I have are my student loans and I thought I worked hard but I somehow must be too lazy to become rich. What a fool I was to think that a skilled position in a company would pay a decent salary and that the executives of that company would have a salary in a fair proportion to mine. Clearly I should have invested all my money into the stock market or housing because I would be rolling in money now. I guess Henry Ford's business model was wrong, it's better to keep the money for yourself and outsource your jobs instead of paying a good wage so your employees can buy your product.

Originally posted by BuffaloJoe
Some thoughts to digest...
- Top 10% : Pay 70% of nations taxes
- Top 1% : Pay 38% of nations taxes
- Bottom 50% : Pay 0% of nations taxes
- Bottom 50% : are actually paid to be citizens
- Minimum wage and homeless people do not create jobs
- Heirs to large amounts of $ are ultimately the benefactors of someone else's hard work and smart financial practices. If they choose to spend it making their family financially independent rather than at Walmart, is it really wrong. Was it the beneficiaries fault?

What part of this is unfair?

Personally I fall in just above the bottom 50% but I never want to see the ability to reach the top 10% taken away. Infringing on ROI only diminishes entrepreneurial motivation. That is bad for the economy that we all share.

Those facts are obviously wrong. Bottom 50 percent pay NO taxes? Are you kidding me? You should have known your information was wrong with that nonsense. The currect minimum Federal tax rate is 10 percent, and that's only if you make less than $8,025 per year.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by kykweer
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Well then who is to blame?

Blame?...there is nobody to blame...if you give me a chance, I will grab a dollar no matter how many dollars I have...this is our nature..we are hoarders.

The blame is the concept itself...capitalism is a good motivator, however, pure capitalism is destructive as it allows for class collapse over time.

You can't seriously be saying anyone not super rich must be a idiot..are you a rothchild? a rockafeller? doubtful..does that make you stupid and uneducated?
You were born into a old system that has long since grown past the everyone has a chance stage...initially capitalism is great because indeed everyone does...and for a few generations, people really do have the hard work = financial success...but after a hundred or two years of running, you get this result....a child born into a low/middle class family will have a easier time sprouting wings and flying than working hard to get rich...and its actually not too bad now...come back in 100 years if things keep unregulated and the rich protected.

You can argue that a right wing approach to protect the rich is the right thing to do, but as the expression goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Yes we are, but then you get people who want to grab that dollar and you get people who want the dollar given to them

No I'm not super rich, but I have been fortunate enough to have parents that put me through University to become an Engineer, I am part of a fortunate middle class. No the uneducated isn't stupid, being uneducated is a problem yes, and would help us make better decisions, but even Harvard Graduates could be nailed my debt.

How do these people work with money? and who do we surround ourselves with, sure media is a huge companion and influential, but normal everyday people are not like the media, so we need to think that you don't need a jet ski or a huge house to be cool. Instant gratification is a problem too. If you live in your means for a few years you will make better decisions when it comes to credit, don't make bad decisions! Credit IS evil, but it doesn't force you bury yourself in debt.

The thing is you want the rich to spread their wealth, you want point X to come down to meet point A at point D. Why not try to get point A to strive to be where point X is?

reply to post by ClintK


Those figures are a little misleading - they *may be referring to who pays the Federal Income Tax

reply to post by righteyered

Save up and buy stocks while your working? diversify your income as was numerously stated during this whole thread

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by ClintK

 

If you are a business owner you should be incorporated already.

Only a fool would not setup protection for their personal assets, and incoroprating your business provides that protection.

As for stocks that pay dividends...they are sold at the stock market available to anyone for purchase.

What stops you from buying those stocks?

What stops me? How about, like most in the middle class, I can't afford to be buying stocks after taxes, my 403B, a mortgage, utility bills and feeding 5 kids.

Originally posted by peck420

I drive a mazda, most of my friends drive vehicles of slightly higher caliber. Is it their fault? Nope, it is mine, I choose to spend my money on things other than a vehicle. They choose to buy nicer cars.

I just searched "stocks that pay dividends" on google. 8,190,000 results.

All on the first page (except wikipedia) are lists of stocks with high, or strong, dividend pay outs for Canada. All are available for purchase. These can be purchased on my behalf by a stock broker, a bank, or by myself via tools like eTrade.



And your point is...what?

It doesn't matter that anyone can legally buy them. I never said they couldn't. But middle class people don't have the money to buy enough of them that it makes any real difference on their on their income unless they buy them for 4 or 5 DECADES with every spare penny they had. And they still wouldn't be RICH.

reply to post by ClintK

Apparently, you need to do more research.
Who pays what taxes
Nearly half of US households pay no federal tax

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Have you looked into co-ownership with a structured bye out, provided by a private investor?

I guess you meant "loan sharks". Just read the post.

Yes, what a way to get your knee caps "re-structured".

Originally posted by BuffaloJoe
reply to post by ClintK

 

Apparently, you need to do more research.
Who pays what taxes
Nearly half of US households pay no federal tax

No I don't. The bottom 50 percent may not pay much, but they pay more than 0 percent. Besides, nearly half of the bottom 50 percent are people working part time jobs, like students.

Besides, you're ignoring the previous posts about how the rich only pay a tine percentage of their income as "adjusted gross income."

Buy stocks, buy stocks. How often do stocks lose their value? Stock in a company can be $20 today and a $1 tomorrow, you can't count on the stock market.

Originally posted by ClintK
What stops me? How about, like most in the middle class, I can't afford to be buying stocks after taxes, my 403B, a mortgage, utility bills and feeding 5 kids.

It doesn't matter that anyone can legally buy them. I never said they couldn't. But middle class people don't have the money to buy enough of them that it makes any real difference on their on their income unless they buy them for 4 or 5 DECADES with every spare penny they had. And they still wouldn't be RICH.

So it is the rich man's fault for him being rich and you being poor?

You have a mortgage, utilities, and food taking up so much of your income that you have nothing left?

You have essential stated that you have squandered your earnings, and are therefore, intitled to some of his.

That is what raising his taxes to subsidise (lower) yours is in effect doing.

I would like to say that I don't mean to be crass, but I do. I have no problems living well within my means, why should I get punished because you can't do the same?

reply to post by the2ofusr1
We have been bankrupt since before 1933,when the government confiscated all of the gold from the people.

And ethics?,nah,assholes finish first.

Nice guys are lucky if they finish at all.

reply to post by buddhasystem


No I meant walking into a legitimate business, maybe even one that will be located right by the stand. And asking the owners, face to face, if they would like to make an investment.

Explain the benefits, make sure you include quality, healthy food, readily available to their employees , and ask them for the money.

Offer them a decent ROI and walk awya with your head held high if they say no. At least you tried.

Originally posted by peck420
So it is the rich man's fault for him being rich and you being poor?

You have a mortgage, utilities, and food taking up so much of your income that you have nothing left?

You have essential stated that you have squandered your earnings, and are therefore, intitled to some of his.

That is what raising his taxes to subsidise (lower) yours is in effect doing.

I would like to say that I don't mean to be crass, but I do. I have no problems living well within my means, why should I get punished because you can't do the same?

WOW, providing for his family shelter, utilities, and food is squandering his money?

reply to post by Chai_An


But I thought the rich guys didn't take any risks to open up their loopholes.

Whoops.

Looks like you argued yourself out. Nice.

Stocks stabalise over the longterm, most people expect to get their return over the shorterm. Not going to happen unless you are psychic. Or lucky.

When you buy stocks for dividend you don't want a stock that varies much at all. you want a nice reliable stock (slow consistent growth), with a nice reliable payout. It may take longer to achieve good ROI's, but it provides a great deal more security.

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by ClintK
What stops me? How about, like most in the middle class, I can't afford to be buying stocks after taxes, my 403B, a mortgage, utility bills and feeding 5 kids.

It doesn't matter that anyone can legally buy them. I never said they couldn't. But middle class people don't have the money to buy enough of them that it makes any real difference on their on their income unless they buy them for 4 or 5 DECADES with every spare penny they had. And they still wouldn't be RICH.

So it is the rich man's fault for him being rich and you being poor?

You have a mortgage, utilities, and food taking up so much of your income that you have nothing left?

You have essential stated that you have squandered your earnings, and are therefore, intitled to some of his.

I start really resenting your attitude. Have you ever tried to care for a kid, or 5 of them? Did you even read in this post that the person is actually SAVING into their 403B account, which is in fact an investment??? Squandered? What the hell are you talking about?

Of course you know better and are especially fond of forex speculation which you claim is the recipe for this nation's future prosperity!

Naivete elevated to a fetish status.

reply to post by Chai_An


It is if you can't make the payments.

If you have no money left after paying your bills, including food, you have made some very poor choices.

These are rethoricals for everybody

You have a mortgage. Is it within your means? Did you allow for market and interest rate flucuations? Did you allow for correct utility usage? Did you allow for utility flucuations (if you live deregulated)?

You have 5 children. Children cost money. Search child care costs in you area. It will give you a guideline to how much money you will require per child per year. Did you account for healthcare costs? Insurance?

Did you account for a family slush account (for the unexpected)? Did you account for a reasonable retirement / investment schedule?

This is by no means a definitive list, infact, it is a short list off the top of my head, and will maybe account for half of your expenses.

If you haven't accounted for the cost of your life, then yes you have squandered your money.

I see people everyday struggling to make mortgage payments on houses they should have never bought, raising far more children than their income allows. And this is supposed to be my fault?

I did my homework and research. I planned my life inside my means, and I am starting to reap the rewards. Now you want me to make less, so that those that didn't plan, can have their butts covered?

Originally posted by Chai_An
Buy stocks, buy stocks. How often do stocks lose their value? Stock in a company can be $20 today and a $1 tomorrow, you can't count on the stock market.

I guess thats why all successful investors have a portfolio and invest in numerous companies.

Originally posted by kykweer

Originally posted by Chai_An
Buy stocks, buy stocks. How often do stocks lose their value? Stock in a company can be $20 today and a $1 tomorrow, you can't count on the stock market.

I guess thats why all successful investors have a portfolio and invest in numerous companies.

That is not a guarantee of success. I made money on NVIDIA and lost money on WMI. Net result was mediocre, even though both investments were based on top-notch research.

reply to post by ClintK


They are not arbitrary numbers I made up. I'm not really sure what you are disputing. Are you disputing the source?