Explosive Testimony: Niels Harrit – Chemist

Dr. Harrit must have struck a nerve. A big nerve. All the debunkers are immediately on this thread, like white on rice. Personally, I'm waiting for Good Ol' Dave to chime in very very soon so he can use the phrase "silly Truthers" again. It's like a favorite ol' comedy one-liner punchline that everyone says in unison.

Dr. Harrit is a scientist, Professor at a well-respected university, researcher etc etc. It is obvious that he has caught the fire of curiosity relative to the fall of the 3 WTC buildings.

Hooper, Alfie, trickoftheshade, airspooner, et al: don't just criticize or try to derail the thread. Bring your own bona fide experts and their findings. I repeat, bring your own bona fide experts and their findings. You are debunked without this.

This is an interesting find . His take on the chemical composition of the WTC dust is going to add more fans to the fires .

I had got hung up with the peer review argument before but that argument is a bogus one . When a FBI chemist tests a sample from a crime scene you dont hear in court where is your peer review paper on this or when a defense expert witness testifies you dont hear the prosecution lawyer scream where is your peer review paper on the tests, The evidence is submitted and the 12 jurors decide . And if your a juror you get the chemists or Drs qualifications the sensitivity of the testing equipment the reliability of the testing equipment and the results you don't have a option to ask for a peer review paper on the tests done .

See if the DWI defendant gets off by asking for the cops peer review paper on the BAC test or a failed drug test . Testing for substances are fairly strait forward . Calibration pretests , test the sample read findings if out of the norm recheck calibrations if fine then that is that proof no need for peer review .

So....

Niels Harrit has nearly 60 peer-reviewed papers but you 'bunkers dont accept his credibility ????

Why would he lie??

Note how he said he was unaware of WTC7 till 3 years ago....gee they did a good job keeping that one quiet.

But why??

Hiding something?

Covering something up??

And anyway...why would you 'bunkers even care enough what this man says to waste your time putting him down??

All very suspicious...

reply to post by airspoon


well lets look at who made this. This person thinks and lives on the fringes of society always looking for attention. I cant wait for it to be proven that he falsified and doctored his results from his study. Looking at guys like this I can see why they say anyone will do anything for 15 minutes of fame. hes no better then the viral video of chocolate rain on youtube.

reply to post by tigpoppa


Well, assuming you are either talking about Prof. Harrit or Dr. Jones, neither of whom live on the "fringes of society", you are wrong. The attention that you get from publicly coming out against the official conspiracy theory is not the kind of attention you want. It often leads to smear campaign and a hindrance to your career. I doubt that many otherwise prominent people wake up in the morning and decide to forfeit their livelihoods. Furthermore, both professors already received more than their fare share of fame and a lot more than a modest 15 minutes, as both professors are very well respected in both academia and their respective fields of study, particularly Jones.

The truth of the matter is that most scientists keep quiet, though I'm sure most of them don't believe the official conspiracy theory. Most people enjoy and/or their employment and funding both. I have yet to meet a single intelligent person who has looked into the events of 9/11 past the media hype and put weight in the official conspiracy theory. Sure, there are plenty of people who don't ever look into it past whatever the media says about it, though those that have surely know that it is false.

So far, the official conspiracy theorists don't have any scientists who have publicly come out with research or studies proving that explosives couldn't have or weren't used. So far, 100% of the scientists who have looked into the issue of whether explosives were used, have found evidence to suggest that they were used, while no scientist has come out with a study disproving the same.

You know, we kind of had the same problem with religion in the centuries past. Scientists would be falsely discredited for their science, simply because it didn't chide well with the OS of the bible. They were labeled as heretics or agents of the devil and ignorance kept the people from logical reason and progress. You could either go with science, logic and reason or you can simply believe what you are told and throw common-sense out of the window.

It would be kind of funny if it wasn't so tragic but these scientists and intellectuals who are brave and heroic enough to come forward with reason, are all respected in their respective fields and it wasn't until they came forward that the smear campaigns started and these smear campaigns are all conducted anonymously or the equivalent. They are conducted by people who are not experts in the field (or experts at anything, really). You can say what you want about these intellectuals but they still garner respect by their peers and none of those peers are coming out against them.

If Dr. Jones, Prof. Harrit, Dr. Griffin, Dr Farrer or the plethora of other scientists and intellectuals who have come forward with their findings against the official conspiracy theory are so obviously wrong, then why has not one single scientist or intellectual come out against them? Why hasn't anyone been able to prove them wrong? Where are the studies, papers and research refuting what they are saying? Why are these scholars being ignored by the media, instead of their research being dismantled? The answer is simple, because no one can. So far, scientists have only come out to support these findings and the only "scientists" who seem to support the official conspiracy theory, generally work directly with or for the government and admit that they haven't looked into the issue. However, most scientists don't have an opinion at all, at least a public opinion and that's probably because they don't want to lose their livelihoods.

The fact remains, every scientist who has looked into the issue of explosives being used and have since went public with their findings, have found that evidence. Again, you can say what you want but the fact remains that you are an anonymous BB member and these scholars are very well respected and accomplished, thus have far more credibility. If these scholars are so wrong, they certainly would have been disproven by now or at least have attempts made to disprove them.

It really is as simple as that. Ignorance... or science.

With that being said, the science is only evidence and it only makes up a very small portion of the over-all evidence to suggest that the official conspiracy theory is wrong. Even without the scientific evidence, there is plenty to sew a seed of doubt in the official conspiracy theory. Common criminals have been convicted in a court of law with only the equivalent of a fraction of the evidence. This at the very least, warrants and justifies an investigation. Just the fact that anyone would oppose an independent inquiry into the events of that day is telling in its own right. There should be no reason to oppose an independent inquiry. If the official conspiracy theory is so right and obvious, then surely an inquiry would put to bed the skeptics and nay-sayers for good and the trusters would finally have some arguing points, instead of just grasping for straws by throwing out personal attacks in an effort to discredit the chorus of credible voices.


--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon


quote
You know, we kind of had the same problem with religion in the centuries past. Scientists would be falsely discredited for their science, simply because it didn't chide well with the OS of the bible. They were labeled as heretics or agents of the devil and ignorance kept the people from logical reason and progress. You could either go with science, logic and reason or you can simply believe what you are told and throw common-sense out of the window.

Funny how its the messenger and not the message which is attacked, which makes me question the motives of the person making the attack. The story you have presented is a pretty useful model of the world, i've heard stories about scientists at the turn of the previous century saying that if you were to travel in a train at the un-godly speed of 35 miles per hour your eyes would plop out and other scientists saying that air flight is impossible - as it they would know. Goes to show we should trust science and not the scientist.

The only thing truthers are, are peole who try really hard to convince others...


Kinda like a missionary or something...


It really stands out as a potential character flaw...

Originally posted by purplemonkeydishwasher


it had all the files on the ENRON indictment, for one..

Yeah, and those guys got off scott free.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Some truthers may want to convince others, though that is only because they believe in the truth and yearn for justice to be served. Thousands of people were murdered, many thousands more have died in the resulting wars, our liberties have been side-lined and our Constitution subverted. Can you really blame people for seeking the truth ot simply being skeptical of a theory that has little evidence to support it and even more evidence that contradicts it?

The reality is that in order for an investigation or inquiry to be done, a chorus of voices is needed. There has been a clear effort on behalf of TPTB to ignore certain voices or evidence, while convincing the people that a group of religious nuts who are jealous of our freedoms perpetrated the attack alone and unless we give up our lives, money and Constitutional protections, it will happen again. Since we live in a democratic republic, it is paramount that an opposition be mounted to preserve our Constitution and seek the truth so that justice can be served, regardless of who is guilty of the attacks. Yes, political movements need people and since truthers believe that the majority of people are being kept ignorant, they also believe it is important to deny that ignorance.

The only unified goal of truthers in convincing others, is that there is more to the story than what we are being lead to believe. It is trying to convince others to deny ignorance, lest we all suffer because of it, seeing how this is a democratic republic and all.

Look at it this way, if you come across many of your neighbors sending their life savings to some Nigerian prince who claims that he has millions of dollars locked away in London bank, would you not try to inform your neighbors that it could quite possibly be a scam. Sure, you may not care about your neighbors and if they are gullible enough to send their money via Western Union to Africa, then it may just be better for them to learn the hard way, however their ignorance is going to affect the entire neighborhood, as their homes will go into foreclosure, ultimately driving down the property values.

In America, it is our responsibility... No, It is our duty to hold government accountable and stay ever vigilant of tyranny and those who seek to deconstruct our Constitutional protections and when you see your neighbors dropping the ball, there is nothing wrong with simply being the voice of opposition to show that there could be nuch more to the story. In fact, that is the only way to get things done politically in a democratic republic.


--airspoon

The only reasons to support the "official story" would be, personal involvement on some level (like a paycheck), or a delusional desire to perpetuate some type of fairy tale existence. Open your eyes, accept life on life's terms and stop being a moron. Building 7 is the smoking gun. Thanks for the video, OP.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


ditto, did you see the threads about buddhists for 9/11 truth - buddhists have as part of their beliefs the idea that everything must be held to scrutiny, EVERYTHING. Then you work out what is true or not - commenting on stuff you don't know about IS a character flaw - and once again an attack on anything that isn't the message, that's the way OS supporters go on this board it seems - most see through the lies...

And the only thing I've heard consistently from so called truthers is 'look at the evidence with your own eyes'.

Reverse stars for your reply

Originally posted by binkbonk
Building 7 is the smoking gun. Thanks for the video, OP.

What if the debris from the tower hadn't hit it? Would they still have blown it up?

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


I do not think they were worried about that, trickster...when you rig a building to explode , and really overdo it too... you know that many ton steel beams will eject hundreds of feet outwards, and massive clouds of debris will fly through the air and therefore impact buildings quite far away,, see no problem at all.

And they also knew there would be believers like yourself that figure gravity alone could cause such parts of a building to fly sideways with such force.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade
Thanks for reading my post, and taking a moment to respond. My answer to your question would be yes. Considering, whoever was responsible had already started fires in building 7, the fact that debris also hit the building just gave them a slightly longer alibi. So imo yes, even if the debris hadn't hit Building 7 they still would have detonated the obviously pre existing, controlled demolition explosives. Who exactly put them there and when are the real questions.

great thread.

Its so great, that NONE of the Debunkers try to even Debunk what is said in this video or in Jones Paper. Soon theyll say hes no real Scientist and was fired from BYU. Well no wonder, as its the easiest way to dismiss facts.

And please Debunkers. Tell me one thing if you understand science so great, how could falling debris, which fell on the WTC 7 light it up ? Didnt know that throwing metal onto metal make them start burning so out of control to destroy a 47 story building into a couple of story dust pile... well that reminds me pretty much of a simpsons scene...

Originally posted by TrueFalse
Its so great, that NONE of the Debunkers try to even Debunk what is said in this video or in Jones Paper. Soon theyll say hes no real Scientist and was fired from BYU. Well no wonder, as its the easiest way to dismiss facts.

The thermite pamphlet has been soundly debunked repeatedly, there's no need to post it yet again. Especially considering the general reception such debunking tends to recieve on ATS.

Originally posted by roboe

Originally posted by TrueFalse
Its so great, that NONE of the Debunkers try to even Debunk what is said in this video or in Jones Paper. Soon theyll say hes no real Scientist and was fired from BYU. Well no wonder, as its the easiest way to dismiss facts.

The thermite pamphlet has been soundly debunked repeatedly, there's no need to post it yet again. Especially considering the general reception such debunking tends to recieve on ATS.

ok then please show me where it has been debunked... i mean some links and some credible source...
thx in advance

reply to post by TrueFalse

forums.randi.org...
forums.randi.org...

But it's all figures and such, so I don't expect much other than "anonymous posts at JREF isn't a reliable source".

Originally posted by roboe
reply to post by TrueFalse

 

forums.randi.org...
forums.randi.org...

But it's all figures and such, so I don't expect much other than "anonymous posts at JREF isn't a reliable source".

no no its great. im going trough this thread right now but you only posted 2 Posts out of 19 pages of the whole thread. Some posts after this one there are people debunking his findings already. Well as im only on the 5th page right now im gonna hold back my opinion.

And dont get me wrong, thats how i like replys. This forum seems to be with a lot of well educated people, so we will see if the debunking of Jones paper will be debunked.

I still would love some of the OS believers to do a research as Jones did it, with experiments and stuff.

Im gonna get back when im through the thread.

For everyone, heres the full Version, not only 2 Posts taken out of the Context of a Whole 19 pages THread

forums.randi.org...

Using randi to debunk the thermite theory reminds me of the Catholic Church turning a blind eye to paedophilia......randi supports the Fairytale, obviously they arent going to agree with Harrit.


...and your right, anonymous posts on randi do not qualify as capable debunks.

Wheres some PHD'ed professionals with sound backgrounds in key areas debunking the thermite theory, rather than some kid sitting in his basement??


Ooops....there are none!

So wheres the repeated debunks roboe???

I'm waiting bud....