A truly (near as I can tell) unique problem.

All right...I believe that the ATS populace is probably the most intelligent group of people I have found in my years of using Internet Forums. And, as an added bonus, I get to remain anonymous around here, which is exactly what I desire. So, if you would please lend me your minds for a moment, I have a problem that I have not heard of before, one that I am currently struggling uselessly with.

Six years ago, I met the woman of my dreams. As far as I am concerned, she is absolutley perfect in every possible way. Smart, fun, positive, good-looking...but above all else there was an emotional connection as well. Which is WAY up on my list of things that attract me and (sadly) hard to come by in this day and age. Anybody can nab the nearest bimbo at the bar...with her I found someone I could talk to. I spent an entire semester (yes, it goes back to high-school) skipping third-period gym just to hang out with her during her spare period. Problem was there was rarely a time when she wasn't involved with someone else...guess I wasn't the only one who took notice, and was kind of the late entry into the game if you will call it that. But, I decided to play the patience game. It seemed like the role of "waiting opportunist" was the one I was left with, and while I am a fairly laid-back person, it's kind of a bunk hand to get dealt whilst at the whims of your emerging and raging hormones. Still, I managed to not screw up too bad in the ensuing two years that followed.

Then, two years ago, we went out for coffee and it all got laid out on the table. However, as far as my idiotic brain was concerned this was two years after an investment that didn't provide a return (sorry to sound so cold...just getting the point across), and I was thouroughly frustrated with the whole situation. So, when the inevitable flak hit my plane and I plummeted towards the earth, I did perhaps the best (and worst) thing I could have done. I shrugged it off like a man (even though she may have just as well torn my beating heart from my chest), and stood up to leave. THAT...in retrospect, was the proper corse of action. Get the hell out immedatley...but here's where things go horribly wrong. Instead of allowing me to leave, she offered to cook me some macaroni (...we were teenagers...) for supper. And, in my infinite weakness and stupidity, I agreed.

I thought I was above "the system", if you want to call it something. I thought I could be the one person who successfully continued the friendship after getting blown out of the water. I thought, eventually, the feelings would subside and I would move on. Problem is, it wasn't just a casual friendship. To this day I see her three to four times a week. We are, to put it mildly, very close. Up until last year, I was actually doing quite well, in fact. And then...I dunno, something inside my brain just clicked and all my patience ran out. And I'm left with quite the mess. You see, me her and her boyfriend all went to school together, and in the years that have followed have all become good friends...yes, I am close friends with her boyfriend too.

So, to sum up, here is my problem in a nutshell:
1) I have been in love with the same woman for six years.
2) Near as I am aware, she considers me a close friend.
3) I consider her current boyfriend a close friend of mine.

To make matters worse, the physical contact between me and her has ramped up signficantly. And, far from making me "happy", as some might suspect, it is making me feel every other emotion but. A dash of jealousy, a smidge of shame, a dose of frustration...all rolled into one, big, steaming pile of sh!t. And, while I have to believe that she is oblivious on all counts (meaning the physical contact is subconcious and she has no idea how I feel), my perceptions are begining to fail me. Logic and reason abandon me, as my own subconcious takes over. I percieve her actions liken to waving a flag screaming "I'm intersted in you"...but I have to doubt my own observations, as I am clearly biased in the situation. Everytime I go over there to hang out, I always try to remember to distace myself from her. And everytime I leave, I'm shocked to discover that I have failed to do just that. The opposite, in fact, occurs. I am constantly flirting with her, and only recognize it as such after the fact.

So, I'm left with quite the pickle. For one, I am very interested in her, and as such the possibility exists that I am creating my own hell. Not only through my continued involvement in her life, but through the subconcious signals I'm sending out. Perhaps she is picking up on these, and her actions are affected by them. The physical contact is not what you would call subtle...and that's not wishful thinking on my part either. Providing false details would not solve my problem, after all. And, remember, far from making me feel special, it makes me feel awkward and confused...not the most fun state of mind to be in. All the while, I cannot help but flirt with her, which I can only assume her boyfriend picks up on (I know I would)...and recently I have come to suspect (and in a lot of cases confirm my suspicion) that she is looking at me while I'm not paying attention. I have caught her doing this several times now, and I assume only because I have begun to look for it.

SO...I have two questions:

1) Based on the information provided (and I am HAPPY to answer questions)...what is her mindset? Am I reading too much into it, or not reading into it enough?
2) Regardless of the answer to no.1...what the hell do I do with this? Everytime I go over there, I bring an elephant into the room with me. He's mine, and I don't introduce him...should I?

Regards,
GtkP

You are in the friend zone.

If you tell her how you feel, you risk losing your friendship with her bf. And if she doesn't see you that way, you'll most likely lose her too as it will be too awkward from then on.

It sucks to be in the friendzone. I was put in the friendzone for many years, like you. And now, I am a 26 year old virgin. I have all but given up that I will ever find someone.

If you haven't been able to be with her after this long, chances are she sees you as more of a brother than a bf.

On the surface it seems like she's content with being friends. Women today are definitely not shy about pursuing someone if they're interested. If she's happy in her relationship with her boyfield (which you should know since you're a close friend), then I'd say to not say anything. On the other hand, if she's not happy in her relationship, then all is fair in love and war. Take her out to a nice dinner and lay the cards out again. Good luck.

First of all, this isnt as unique as you would think. Second, have you had a gf in the time youv known her?

reply to post by Guido the Killer Pimp

what is her mindset?

Ask her. She probably has a better idea than strangers on the internet.

Am I reading too much into it, or not reading into it enough?

You are behaving like a girl: over-analzying every insignicant little detail to try to figure out what someone else is thinking....instead of focusing on what you want and acting on it to make it happen.

There's nothing wrong with being a girl. But it does mean waiting around hoping that somebody else asks you to the dance. And that may be what she is doing: waited to be asked to dance.

what the hell do I do with this?

The possibilities are endless. What you do will be your own decision. However, as someone who once spent years in a very similar situation, my advice is to grow the hell up and stop acting like a girl.

I don't introduce him...should I?

There is no one single course of action that is gaurunteed to bring you happiness. If you do nothing, you may continue to burn in your own private hell. If you act on your desires, you may drive her away and spend the rest of your life missing her.

Whatever you do, understand the possible consequences and be prepared to live with them. Remember that you cannot determine the choices of another. You can only decide for yourself. She and her decisions are necessarily a factor in whatever happens.

But so are yours.

So, since your actions are the factor in this that you have complete control of, I simply ask you: regardless of outcome, what actions can you take that you will be able to look back on ten years from now and feel content with yourself that you did the right thing?

Why don't you do that?

You, my friend, need a seriously dosage of man-the-bleep-up.

Now I know I'll probably get quite some flak for saying this from people, but beeing in love for over 6 years with the same girl, knowing she doesn't love you back is, quite frankly, stupid.

Secondly, if you are really that good friends, she knows you are. Which makes her, again quite frankly, stupid too.

You have been Friendzoned, and she is just keeping you around to make her feel good about herself man. Stop beeing a toy in her life and move the # on.

Move on. Either she comes running after you or she doesn't, either situation is better then the one you are in now.

The "friendzone" isnt the worst place to be what you want to be sure of is your not the "harmless, flirty, gay, bestfriendzone", which would explain why her bf is ok with you hitting on his woman. I say hit up her best friend, or, all of her friends for that matter and see if you can get a rise out of her.

reply to post by Guido the Killer Pimp

To make matters worse, the physical contact between me and her has ramped up signficantly.

What does that mean? Your physical contact has ramped up? Is she teasing you?

I'm an older guy, so probably throw what I say out the window, but women don't seem to need the "physical" as much as men do. Will they use that fact "against" you? YES. And they may do it, even if they like you, even if they LOVE you.

SO, could be good news maybe. If she is truly getting more "physical", brushing up, putting hands on you, better "hugs", whatever, then it could be she's looking for a REAL response from you. If you're still being a puss, or pardon me, the "friend", then what do we have?

Maybe I went through something "similar" with a coworker years ago. We were both married, with children, both "committed", etc. And yet, after years of working together, there was really something growing between us. That didn't take anything away from the spouses, it didn't mean we were ready to jump in the sack, none of that. But, things were changing, maybe "physical contact", whatever, and who knows what would have happened if I had not found another job far away.

BUT, if we had not been married, if she "only" had a boyfriend, I'm fairly sure that I would not have lived with myself if I had not done EVERYTHING in my power to explore that fully. In other words, I agree with the posters above, who seem to be saying that you do not want to have regrets in this situation. No, not after six years. You owe it to yourself, and to this woman too (who may really love you, but is caught in circumstances and momentum), to put it all out on the line. And by that, I mean, DO what's in your heart.

Tell her the truth, that you really can't be "just" friends, that you have pined for her these six years, that you will always be her friend, but that you are a man, and because of that, you will either love her from afar, or you will love her, as her lover. And tell her too that you care about her boyfriend, but the truth is, while you would never want to hurt him, you also can't help who you are, and you realize that it can't be any other way.

And don't look back.

Good luck!

JR

Mental health counselor here... You have 3 possible solutions to any problem I like to call "ACE" - Accept, Change or Eliminate. You can either accept the situation the way it is, continuing the friendship with her and the b/f, attempt to Change the situation by getting honest about your feelings with her and letting the chips fall where they may, or Eliminate the situation by completely walking away from it, cutting off all association with both of them. You must make a choice. If you do nothing, you have still made a choice - that would be acceptance.

My gut tells me that if this girl felt the same way about you, she would not be with someone else. She has obviously had 6 years of ample opportunity to have a romantic relationship with you. Most women are quite intuitive so trust me - she definitely knows already how attracted you are to her. The fact she has not hooked up with you by now tells me she doesn't have those kind of feelings for you and probably never will.

That's the truth, plain and simple. Accept, change or eliminate. I would suggest seeing a counselor, for at least a few sessions, to help you deal with the feelings. Please let us know how it works out. God bless!

reply to post by Rockerchic4God

if this girl felt the same way about you, she would not be with someone else. She has obviously had 6 years of ample opportunity to have a romantic relationship with you.

Why should she want one? If she has a masculine boyfriend who fulfills her need to be feminine for someone, while the OP feeds her all her emotional needs...what incentive does she have to change the status quo?

Reverse the situation: Imagine a married man with a nurturing, good housewife who give him loyalty, stability, and good home-making. And imagine that he also has a sexy 20-something mistress on the side he gives him great sex and edge-of-your-seat thrills that make him feel young again. And imagine that mistress as the OP. She's already sat down with the married man "over coffee" and "laid it all out" and told him that he wants to be the one married to him. And then went right on having sex with him anyway.

Do you really expect him to put a stop to it? Do you really expect him to say "gee, this isn't what you really want, so I'm going to send you away and give up all the great sex and thrills you give me." Of course not. Nor would you expect him to throw away his loyal wife and beautiful children so he can "have a romantic relationship" with the girl.

So why should anyone expect the girl in the OP's story to give up either her source of emotional fulfillment (the OP) or her source of raw man (her boyfriend) ?

She has everything she wants. She has no incentive to change anything.

Accept, change or eliminate

Yep. Those are the choices.

One additional caution, OP. If you try to eliminate, it's entirely possible she may try to get you back. That does not mean she wants to have the sort of relationship you want to have. Remember, you've been feeding her emotional supprot for 6 years, and you've established for six years that you don't give her the "man" part of a relationship. She wants both, and if you take one away she's liable to try to get back the part you take away. It would not make sense for her to respond to you taking away her emotional support by trying to get manliness from you. And if she knows you want to be sexy and manly for her, the obvious way for her to get you back as emotional support would be to sleep with you a few times to satisfy your needs, and then go right back to having another guy to fill her needs.

That is, after all...the status quo that you've been promoting for six years: her having you on the side...just like a married man with a 20-something mistress.

Originally posted by Tunedbeats
You, my friend, need a seriously dosage of man-the-bleep-up.

Now I know I'll probably get quite some flak for saying this from people, but beeing in love for over 6 years with the same girl, knowing she doesn't love you back is, quite frankly, stupid.

Secondly, if you are really that good friends, she knows you are. Which makes her, again quite frankly, stupid too.

You have been Friendzoned, and she is just keeping you around to make her feel good about herself man. Stop beeing a toy in her life and move the # on.

Move on. Either she comes running after you or she doesn't, either situation is better then the one you are in now.

The best answer I have read so far.

Yes somebody needs to grow some serious cojones.

Son,she knows how you feel.

You just do not know that she knows.

She probably thinks you are gay.

A woman does not have a friend relationship with a man for 6 years unless they think they are gay.

Tell her that you must end the relationship because you have feelings for her,plain and simple.

The unrequited love crap only goes so far.

I had feelings for a young woman and did not pursue it because A. I was her boss and B. we were both married to someone else.

She moved literally to the other side of the world and I felt so bad I did not tell her how I felt about her.

I sat down and wrote a very long letter to her telling her how I really felt about her in detail ,and mailed it off.

One day the phone rang and it was her.

She felt the exact same way about me,but had the same issues as I did.

It was good to know that my feelings were not just MY feelings.

But life has a strange way of keeping loved ones apart.

But she knows because I have told her many times when we talk on the phone that I will ALWAYS love her.

Maybe someday as old people we'll sit in our rockers and hold hands.

If you do not tell her it will kill you for the rest of your life.

reply to post by Guido the Killer Pimp

1) Based on the information provided (and I am HAPPY to answer questions)...what is her mindset? Am I reading too much into it, or not reading into it enough? 2) Regardless of the answer to no.1...what the hell do I do with this? Everytime I go over there, I bring an elephant into the room with me. He's mine, and I don't introduce him...should I?

Tell her again. Tell her the feelings haven't gone away and that you think she feels that way too. Don't get up and leave if she shoots you down, press her to see if she really doesn't share the feelings or if she's just saying that to avoid the awkwardness.

This sounds very unhealthy. I would say if this friendship is leading to guilt and ultimately a kind of loneliness that you should separate yourself for a while. Find someone else to date if she truly shoots you down and try to find all the qualities you see in this woman in that woman.

Basically lay it out more forcefully with a plan of action of what you two could tell your friend, etc, if you decide to try to make this work. If it doesn't work then tell her that you're going to have to separate yourself for a while because its just getting too much to bear and you'd like to return to the friendship in a more healthy way.

So, to sum up, here is my problem in a nutshell:
1) I have been in love with the same woman for six years.
2) Near as I am aware, she considers me a close friend.
3) I consider her current boyfriend a close friend of mine.

No, you have not been "in love" with her, you're infatuated with her...big difference. (and I've been there in this very NOT so unique problem)...

Yep, that's a good assessment. You appear to be solidly in the "friend" zone.

There you go man, "bro's before ho's" and all of that.

So, she sees you almost like a brother at this point. (hence the closeness and touchy-feely bit).

I'm going to give you the solution to ALL of the above problems...(and you won't like it, but suit up man)

As another member put it so well...."Hunt your own meat". You need to find yourself another girl, and all will be better. This "investment" of yours for 5 years? It isn't netting a return my friend....so cut bait, and go after another fish...as the saying goes, plenty of fish in the sea right?

I told you that you wouldn't like it, but then again, you didn't really need me to tell you that, did you? (as you already know the answer....you just don't want to admit it).

That's cool. Like I said, been there, done that (and more than once I'm afraid)...so enough to have learned. Let's hope you don't learn near as painfully as I did. That said though, I am married to a gal who used to be (and still is) my best friend, and was once with my buddy, but he died tragically, so that kind of circumvents the rule a bit....

EDIT: Get her to set you up with one of her girlfriends....they LIVE for this sort of thing.

Separate entirely.

You can continue in this perpetual loop, and let it consume you, or you can man up and walk away, wash your hands of the situation completely.

She will never be yours.

I know, it sucks, but you need to realize this. If you still have all these feelings for her being a friend will never work, and I am sorry but if she was interested you would have been together a long time ago. Get out, live your life, chase your dreams, you will be surprised how quickly you get over her and start looking forward. You will find someone else, and when you do you will wonder why you fussed over this one so much.

Mark my words, for you will dismiss them initially, but in the end when you are free of this, you will realize I was dead right all along.

Prepare for your next meeting with her by "pre-gaming" 2 beers. Be nursing a third when you enter into her presence. You have about 40 minutes until the social lubricant wears off. Before it does, make an unmistake-able pass at her.

If she is offended, you won't have to dance around the 'but what about our friendship' question any longer.

If she gives you the green light, then stand by and get set for the most face-melting, look-in-the-ark-of-the-covenant-style, sextacular eructation you could have possibly imagined in your fondest dreams.

rinse and repeat.

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
You are in the friend zone.

If you tell her how you feel, you risk losing your friendship with her bf. And if she doesn't see you that way, you'll most likely lose her too as it will be too awkward from then on.

It sucks to be in the friendzone. I was put in the friendzone for many years, like you. And now, I am a 26 year old virgin. I have all but given up that I will ever find someone.

If you haven't been able to be with her after this long, chances are she sees you as more of a brother than a bf.

The other posters gave all of the advise to the OP I would have.. so I want to say something to you: You cant find someone if you are still hung up on the one you friendzoned you. You are wasting time comparing others to her I bet and missing out on things that could be wonderful in your life. 26 and a virgin? Kudos, at least you arent nasty going on on a peepee hunt to get back at women. LOL! Im more worried for you because it seems you have given up. I dont think young women understand the damage they can do to a young guy with their selfish actions. I preach that to my daughters constantly. Dont be a victim.. I mean dont go out there and settle for a lump of coal, but look and be available, be the man that someone would want. NO ONE will love you if you dont even like yourself or are hung up on a past hurt... and NO woman wants a sad sack or an insecure man. We can smell it on you almost.Attract the attention of a predator and youll get hurt worse. Get yourself right and youll be right for the ONE that comes along. SOmetimes a few failures before you hit the jackpot.. but get tough and roll with it.

Its life. The fairy tales you were told are all lies. Life and relationships arent what we are told they are when we're stupid kids. Truthfully, you get ONE chance.. dont let someone else from your past control your future.