Lucifers Trust

reply to post by Sahabi


Thank you for the insight into the early foundations of Islam. I didn't realize that initially Muslims faced the Temple. It does make sense given that Abraham is the progenitor of both religions. What was his reasoning for switching to the Kaaba? That sounds like a pretty neat story in itself. I would love to have more information on the origins of the Black rock in the Kaaba. Intriguing, if anything, I thank the OP for instigating an area of research for me today.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

Jewish mizrah is the direction Jews pray, towards the Temple in Jerusalem. Does this mean they worship the temple, or is it G-d that they worship?

At the introduction of Islam, Muhammad ordered the new Muslims to face the Jewish Temple during prayer along with the Jews. Later on, Muhammad changed the prayer direction to Mecca instead. Kiblah has the same meaning as Mizrah. So Muslims use the Ka'bah as kiblah instead of Jerusalem.

I was unaware of that.

What is the fascination with the east?

Other than that is where the sun rises.

Mizrah

In Judaism, mizrah (Hebrew: מזרח "east")

en.wikipedia.org...

Qibla

Qiblah (Arabic: قبلة‎, also transliterated as Kiblah or Qiblih) is an Arabic word for the direction that should be faced when a Muslim prays during Salah. Most mosques contain a niche, known as Mihrab in a wall that indicates the Qiblah.

en.wikipedia.org...

Two methods in determining the direction of the Qiblah
From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord.

A Mihrab at the 16th century Jama Masjid, Fatehpur Sikri, indicating QiblaAnd Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided;

—Qur'an 2:149–150 (Yusuf Ali)
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.
—Qur'an 2:177–250 (Yusuf Ali)

Several Muslim mathematicians and astronomers, such as Abu Rayhan Biruni, have discussed the correct way of determining the Qiblah direction from any point on the Earth's surface. They agree that at the two moments in each year when the sun is directly overhead the Kaaba, the direction of shadows in any sunlit place will point directly away from the Qiblah. This happens on May 27 or May 28 at 9:18 GMT and on July 15 or July 16 at 9:27 GMT.

Likewise there are two moments in each year when the Sun is directly over the antipodes of the Kaaba. This happens on January 12 or January 13 at 21:29 GMT and on November 28 at 21:09 GMT.

Because the Earth is almost a sphere, this is almost the same as saying that the Qiblah from a place is the direction in which a bird would start flying in order to get to the Kaaba by the shortest possible way. The antipode of the Kaba is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, close to remote southern French Polynesia, in the vicinity of Moruoa Atoll.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Shadowfoot


Muslim direction of prayer was changed because hostilities with the Jews. The Jews complained about Muslims facing Jerusalem for prayer but claiming to supersede their religion. Hostilities with Jews got so intense that Jewish communities began to financially and militarily ally with pagan Arabs against Muslims. So verses were revealed in the Qur'an to face the Ka'bah for prayer.

The Ka'bah is the first building ever dedicated to God. It was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


There is no significance to the East

"To Allah belongs the East and the West. Wherever you turn there is the presence of God..." Qur'an Baqara 2:115

God ordered His believers to all face the same direction is prayer as a show of brotherhood, unity, and solidarity between all Muslims.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

There is no significance to the East

"To Allah belongs the East and the West. Wherever you turn there is the presence of God..." Qur'an Baqara 2:115

God ordered His believers to all face the same direction is prayer as a show of brotherhood, unity, and solidarity between all Muslims.

What is the antipode of the Kaba?

I sent an inquiry to Lucius Trust years ago out of curiosity. I never joined them or contacted them further, but decades later they are still mailing me their newsletter several times a year and other little pamphlets, etc. They won't let go...am I doomed?

I got one not long ago...I'll root around in the big pile of papers in my "procrastination box" and see if I can find it to scan some articles...may have already tossed it.

Originally posted by silent thunder
I sent an inquiry to Lucius Trust years ago out of curiosity. I never joined them or contacted them further, but decades later they are still mailing me their newsletter several times a year and other little pamphlets, etc. They won't let go...am I doomed?

I got one not long ago...I'll root around in the big pile of papers in my "procrastination box" and see if I can find it to scan some articles...may have already tossed it.

Heres some interesting information on the Lucis Trust

Among its many projects, the Bodman Foundation funded the International Rescue Committee, while former CIA director William J. Casey was its president.

The board of trustees of the Bodman Foundation includes former Ambassador Walter J. P. Curley, an associate of Casey's; Peter Frelinghuysen, whose family is married into the family of former CIA officer Cord Meyer; and John N. Irwin III, the son of the under secretary of state to Henry Kissinger.

The Bodman and Achellis foundations combined to grant over a half million dollars to the American Family Foundation during the first decade of its existence.

A close inspection of the grant-making activity of these foundations discloses support for institutions that have been seminal to the erosion of Judeo-Christian culture. In 1969, the Bodman foundation financed the Temple of Understanding, which established itself as the only religious chapel housed in the United Nations in New York. Antropologist Margaret Meade, the grande dame of the New Age, was was an active supporter

The Temple is the creation of the Lucis Trust, a leading Satanic cult, founded in London in 1922 as the Lucifer Trust. The name was changed from Lucifer Trust, to Lucis, to make the nature of the organization less conspicuous.

American sponsors of the Lucis Trust include Henry Clausen, former supreme grand commander of Scottish Rite Freemasons; the Rockefeller Foundation; former secretary of defense Robert S. McNamara;, Rabbi Marc Tannenbaum of the American Jewish Committee; and Thomas Watson, Jr. of IBM. Watson is the uncle of John N. Irwin, III.

Offices of the Temple of Understanding are located at the Anglican Church of St. John the Divine in New York City, which is also funded by the Bodman Foundation. The church is well known as a key sponsor of New Age activity.

www.larouchepub.com...

reply to post by In nothing we trust


I did a quick net search and came up with the island of Tematangi in French Polynesia as the antipode to the Ka'bah. (I never heard of antipode before )

• Is there some hidden meaning to French Polynesia that relates to this thread?

I'm still confused about what point you are trying to make with this thread. Some kind of... the UN Silence Room is related to the black stone of the Ka'bah... Masons are Muslims... Lucis Trust is Luciferian... Masons are Luciferian... Muslims worship the devil? 0_0

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

I did a quick net search and came up with the island of Tematangi in French Polynesia as the antipode to the Ka'bah. (I never heard of antipode before

)

• Is there some hidden meaning to French Polynesia that relates to this thread?

I'm still confused about what point you are trying to make with this thread. Some kind of... the UN Silence Room is related to the black stone of the Ka'bah... Masons are Muslims... Lucis Trust is Luciferian... Masons are Luciferian... Muslims worship the devil? 0_0

I'm afraid there is no alterior motive here other than fact finding sorry.

Do you not see the luciferion global agenda then?

The UN agenda vrs US sovereignty.

Led by our own countrymen none the less.

Satan at work just doin his best, amazes me he has a neverending supply
of eager followers to assist him with his plans!

Originally posted by lestweforget

Satan at work just doin his best, amazes me he has a neverending supply
of eager followers to assist him with his plans!

They're all in on it.

People's souls can be bought and sold like the worthless pieces of shi* they really are.

Die in hell scumbags, you're life ment nothing.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

What else happened in 2001?

Anyone, anyone?

The room of silence in the UN

Uh... the UN meditation room -- complete with giant slab of iron ore in the center -- was built back in the 1950s. 2001 A Space Odyssey was made (I think) sometime in the late 60s... Kubrick could have been inspired by the UN slab, or just liked the look of it, or whatever, and that's why he included something similar in his movie. But I guess that's too logical and not nearly *ooh, evil Satanic conspiracy* enough.

Also, if the Lucis Trust was really part of some grand Satanic conspiracy, calling themselves the Lucifer, then Lucis Trust would just be silly, as being that overt and obvious would only give them away. If these people are smart enough to plan and enact a conspiracy so grand it can span centuries unhindered, I'm pretty sure they'd be smart enough to come up with a better name for their organization. Something more innocuous like, say... Project for the New American Century, or perhaps The Heritage Foundation.

reply to post by Nameless Hussy

hmmmm PNAC...now that has the right kind of ring to it now doesnt it

Originally posted by Shadowfoot
I still need to watch your videos, Im really intrigued as I used to be a member of the Lucis Trust. Lucis Trust was founded by Alice Bailey, she was a contemporary of Blavatsky. The Lucis Trust and the theosophical Society are very similiar if not copies of one another at least from the angle of their schools(I have done course work in both over the years. It is interesting that Annie Besant(adoptive mother of Krishna Murti) and the Theosophical Society, Steiner and Anthroposophy and The Lucis Trust all came about around the same time and moved to America. There is some evidence to Theosophy and the Masonry, and I used to suspect the same of the Lucis trust

The lord of the world in Lucis Trus's metaphysical world view is Sanat Kumara, I worked this as an anagram and came up with Satan's Karma. Another note is that Lucis, means light, the symbol is a oil lamp and of course Lucipher is the light bearer.

I will pop back by after watching the videos...thanks in advance

I believe both the words sanat and kumara are names taken from Hindu/Vedic mythology.

though i agree 1000% that Lucis trust is one disgusting excuse for spirituality.

It is really too complicated a subject to go deeply into without confusing the person youre speaking with.

Lucis trust is based on the theosophical society and the theosophical society bases itself primarely on a ammalgamation of Gnostic, Hindu and Buddhist philosophy, with its own modernist spin.

The fact that this organization is involved, actually commisioned by the UN to serve as a spiritual organization with the purpose of "breaking down the barriers" between the worlds religions, and Alice Bailey herself stated in "plan for a New world order" that Goal #2 called for the dissolution of the Orthodox Jewish religion, is reprehensible.

All these western arisotcrats (lucis trust being a crystalization of their philosophy) are sick sociopathic cavalier nihilists who honestly could give a # about our personal or spiritual wellbeing. They act like gods and they treat us as expendable, meaningless in the 'greater picture' and its stated goal, since the under secretary general, Robert Mueller based his entire philosophy on Baileys 25 writings, is to destroy the one religion whhich actually respects the sanctity and holiness of man - Judaism. Theyve actually been busy, these illuminati, recreating a Judaism in the last 60 or so years thats compatible with the 'perennial philosophy. This Judaism of course has nothing at all to do with the Torah or Commandments, but all to do with the obnoxious and pretentious greco-roman mysticism which places mans personal aspirations as the be all and end all of our existence. Judaism is an annoying reminder to the western elite (since easterns are much more docile in nature, and would have relatively no problem serving a creator which demanded self discipline) that man is meant to honor his source. That his quintessential purpose in being alive is to sublimate each of his desires and motivations in life to G-d, in a selfless, humble and devoted manner.

Greece doesnt care about that, The western christian gnostic leaders - like the Church of Rome, despise that view of life. they spent their trime 'creating' a god in their own image, and called him 'christ' modeled of course after apollo, dionysus, hermes. Hes the god which brings 'true freedom' to man, freedom mainly from the 'cold letter of the law'.

It amazes me how confused western mans perception is of Judaism - thanks of course to the manipulations of their western elite. Judaism is not a dead, reptitive regiments souless religion that christians like to think. Yes, its true, there was corruption during the 2nd temple times, as well as the 1st temple. Was this inherently Judaisms fault? or perhaps the prying influence from without from the pagan leaders surrounding Israel/Judea? The books of the prophets explain the atmosphere that they lived in. In any case, the Judaism gives to Moshe and David and Solomon was one of intense piety and spiritual connection with mans source. It wasnt an age of 'law' as theoshopical mythos likes to claim, followed by an age of redemption ie;christianity. The point of Torah and laws was to REESTABLISH that connection that was lost when Adam fell from his place in Eden. Man can only get back up there through conditioning his heart to the truth through mandate, through obligation from the obligator from above. Torah is not meant to be a cold law. In fact, in the far future, in the messianic age, there will no longer be a need for a law because the Torah, G-ds laws will become apart of the fabric of our being. Judaisms laws are only meant as a medium between G-d and man. as the saying goes without 'wings' - ie love and fear, no mitzvah (good deed) can fly up to its source. It needs to be done with an honesy and sincere love or fear, and honestly, the Jews ive spent my time with are a fabulous example of a joyous and holy life lived for the creator of the universe.

And Lucis Trust/ UN wants to 'disintegrate" orthodox Judaism? Thats hateful. I wonder how muslims would respond if the UN had that stated goal. With this in mind, you can now better understand whats going on in the world today with Israel. Do you think the UN is a friend of Israel? Right now UNESCO - that joke of an academic body is arguing that the historically Jewish holy sites of Rachels Tomb, cave of the patriachs and the holy mount, are muslim. How #ing unbelievable is that? this is the most unbelievable identity theft and public humiliation you can imagine. The Jews are NOTHING to the UN and the western elite. Whatever was them, they will attempt to extirpate and redefine each of their holy sites as belonging to others. Rachels tomb? Even during the ottoman empire these sites were regared as Jewish. How #ing dare these repulsive kleptocrats - professional liars go about and lie their faces off saying any of these sites are muslim. They may be revered as holy by muslims, but they are originally Jewish. They are Jewish and deserve recognition as Jewish just as any other body revered by any other religion would receive their due acknowledgement.

Im sorry for the rant. Just pisses me off.

Lucis trust is evil, UN is evil, and they have intentions to incite war, kill millions and recreate the world more fitting their distorted image for humanity. And why? because the end justifies the means. Evil is a great good when its serves a noble end. Death, as alive bailey said, is a 'great cure'

reply to post by dontreally


You have interesting information, I would like to know your sources for personal investigation of your statements. I take issue with peoples definition with Jewish however. Jewish is Hebrew/house of Judah right? With my present understanding I would call the sites Hebrew, not Jewish..

In regards the Lucis Trust, I would just love to reference the context of your claims, not to argue your statement but to investigate further as I have read many of their books...a very repetitive and difficult feat in itself And I would agree they were very motivated by a one world religion and government, at the time of the writings however it was the League of nations.

Originally posted by Shadowfoot
reply to post by dontreally

 

You have interesting information, I would like to know your sources for personal investigation of your statements. I take issue with peoples definition with Jewish however. Jewish is Hebrew/house of Judah right? With my present understanding I would call the sites Hebrew, not Jewish..

In regards the Lucis Trust, I would just love to reference the context of your claims, not to argue your statement but to investigate further as I have read many of their books...a very repetitive and difficult feat in itself

And I would agree they were very motivated by a one world religion and government, at the time of the writings however it was the League of nations.

Heres an interesting article on some of the things Bailey said about judaism.

Alice Bailey and Antisemitism

As for Jews being only the tribe of Judah. Its Judah and Benjamin (as said in the bible). And according to the bible they were the only ones who maintained the tradition, whereas the 10 tribes descended into their pagan worship of other gods (or archetypal powers)

Judaism has since the earliest times have had knowledge of the location of the cave of macpehalah (where the patriarchs and matriarchs are said to be buried, also revered be christians and muslims, only though because it had been regarded as holy by the jews) cave of rachel, cave of Joseph in Hebron and the holy mount. These are Jewish sites. Not only are the names of these places Hebrew, with absolutely no meaning in the arabic tongue (you would think this would be conclusive evidence of their Jewishness) but since ancient times, even prior to Ottoman rule these sites have had Jewish names. Judaism is about 2000 years older than Islam, and 1500 years older than christianity (who really didnt become totally integrated until the 10th century). Why do they not recieve credit for this? Why is their historicity contantly challenged? Is it normal? Do we do this to other religions? No. only to the Jews. Im not even Jewish and im completely irritated by this reality.

For instance, why do you make a distinction between Jews and Hebrews? do other peopels speak Hebrew? Do we not call speakers of arabic, arabs? Does Jew, Yehudi, not come from Yehuda, or at deeper level, from Yehod (Hebrew for "they acknowledge" as in the source of their being). Those other 10 tribes are lost to history. Not only do they not even know who they are, as most of them are probably christian or muslim (some even native american, as in the cherokee) but they have no knowledge of the tradition. only Judaism, Jews, are Hebrews, and thus custodians of the biblical tradition as it was passed down throughout the ages. This is a completely reasonable deduction and yet so many feel compelled to challgenge it. Some even subscribe to theorires created by irreputable people that the ashkenazi Jews are khazars, even though DNA evidence has disproved that. Even though long before the Khzars came about Jews were living in France, Germany and Italy (along with very large populations in iberia). Why? Why this innordinate attention towards Israel? do people not sit and wonder, what the hell? There are human rights issues and moral dilemmas much greater than whats happening there, yet, the world media has us hypnotized that reconciling the Palestinian/Israel issue is the most important thing, repeating the same cliche 'peace process' which means virtually nothing anymore. Peace is an orwellian doublespeak that means the exact opposite, a war of contrition, endless 'negotiation' that tires us rather than solves anything.

double post.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

What about the black stone of the Ka'bah?

It was there before Islam or Muhammad, and Muslims do not worship this stone, nor the Ka'bah itself.

So what is your point?

Just because it's black it must correspond to the black rectangle in the U.N. Meditation Room?

Excuse my ignorance but what is being worshipped at Hajj?

Don't they throw beans at it to ward off evil spirits?

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

What about the black stone of the Ka'bah? It was there before Islam or Muhammad, and Muslims do not worship this stone, nor the Ka'bah itself. So what is your point? Just because it's black it must correspond to the black rectangle in the U.N. Meditation Room?

The ka'ba wasnt there before mohommad.

Next you'll argue that the holy mount, cave of the patriarchs, tomb of rachel, tomb of joseph, and every other Jewish holy site is muslim.

You guys really like making up history for yourselves. Why? Becaus there are 1.5 billion of you and therefore it must be true, whatever you assert? Do you agree with UNESCO, that the above sites i named are muslim? This is what muslim leaders are saying (a lie if there ever was one) and this is what UNESCO, major supporters of Islam as the UNs proxy against Israel, are saying. The evidence for it is simply lackiong. The names of the site of hebrew and not arabic (as there are no arabic names for these hebrew words). In the ottoman empire, these sites were regarded as Jewish and Jews had complete control over them. Judaism is almos 2000 years older than Islam. Do you people really think its plausible that Islam regarded these sites as holy, before Judaism? Unlikely. Seriously. This UNESCO fiasco is really getting on my nerves and this muslims following suit like blind bats in the night is pathetic and damn right zombie like.

If you were Jewish, and you were a thoughtful muslim (not saying you arent) you should be reasonable and allow Jews to appreciate their holy sites. Yuo dont see Jews barging into Mecca arrogating the kaba to themselves, do you? that would an abomination to you. Now look at Israel. The Jews arent even allowed permission to set foot on their holy mount. In fact - and this is documented, the Waqf in Israel in control of the Temple mount has been busy the last 60 or so years removing any evidence of the 2nd temple (parts have been found outside the mount, and are currently stored at the Temple institute in jerusalem, that date back to 2nd temple times) in order to completely deny the Jewish claim that 2 Jewish temples existed at the mount. This has honestly gone on, and with the complete approval of the corrupt israeli governent, who, ironic enough, gave the temple mount away the day they captured jerusalem (thanks to the evil one eyed pirate moshe dayan) in '47. They with the action secularized israel by disassociating it from their religious tradition. this in turn has created a predominantly atheistic and liberal nation which appears to have no connection to Judaism and thus in the face of Jewish religious claims to certain holy sites, like the temple mount, gives off the impression of a superficial connection. If Israel had been more religious, and thus the Temple mount not given away, i think arabs would respect the fact that Israel and the temple mount are one. But Jews in israel have given themselves a bad name, aside from the 600,000 or so Haredi who are the only ones worthy of being called Jews.

Anyways, sorry for accosting you like this. Youre a muslim, so i thought id mention the annoying UNESCO decision along with the Vatican who are challenging Jewish autonomy of their own holy sites.

reply to post by dontreally


["Judaism is about 2000 years older than Islam, and 1500 years older than christianity']

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.-John8.57

Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.-John4.20

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.-Romans2.29

he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.-Matthew15.24

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.-John10.27

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace-Eph2.15

For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually..If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?..For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.-Hebrew7