Depression is NOT a Real Disorder

reply to post by lawlb0t


I would be interested to know how long you have faught this battle. How old are you? And congratulations on happiness.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by PETROLCOIN
I am both amazed and disgusted at the high level of ignorance and insensitivity displayed in the Suicide And The Aftermath thread by some individuals in regards to the topics of depression and suicidal ideations. To claim depression is NOT a real and serious mental disorder is beyond naive. I can tell you from personal experience that what I feel and suffer through every day is very much a real mental disorder.

People who do not have depression think of sufferers of depression as pathetic and weak individuals who mope about the house feeling sorry for themselves. They claim all it takes is venturing outdoors into society, socializing and meeting new people, and making changes to your life and situation. These changes do help some, but not all sufferers of depression. The sufferers of depression these changes do help have situational depression, not clinical depression.

People who don't think depression is a real medical condition are simply ignorant, childish, self centered individuals who simply don't know any better. We should feel sorry for them and hope that they don't spread their genes which would further contaminate the gene pool.

reply to post by PETROLCOIN
Has anyone that supports taking anti-depressants read the book, "The Emperor's New Drugs by Iving Kirsch, Ph.D." ? I feel like I'm about to be surrounded by a pack of angry wolves, but I do not support the taking of anti-depressants. I worked for many years in private homes. I can honestly say I saw a bottle of anti-depressants in nearly every house I was in. Even the little kids were on them. If the kids weren't taking anti-depressants then they were being over amped on Ritalin or Dexadrine or some other "upper".

Has anyone seen the movie Serenity? Is this what we want, a world where everyone is mellow and happy? I don't. Not that I believe anti-depressants even really increase serotonin levels. Has anyone here actually had a test done to show them their brain and been able to actually see they need these drugs? I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies. I believe anti-depressants work because the people taking them believe they do: power of the mind. Now I'm not talking about serious mental disorders like schizophrenia. I'm taking about what millions of doctors are diagnosing as clinical depression.

I refuse to argue about this subject. It's like abortion. I truly suggest you read the book I mentioned. Studies have been done that show as many people that took placebos improved as those that took the real drugs. The resluts of these studies have been suppressed by the pharmaceutical companies. It's a multi-billion dollar industry.

Having said that, I want to say this is America and you are still free to take whatever pills you want. If they work for you, then great, go for it. I know three people that have had and one still has a court case pending for the "side effects" of drugs. One nearly died and was awarded apppx. $250K for Phen-Phen (sp.?) Another had a massive stroke from a drug like Cymbalta for muscle pain. My current friend is suing for a drug that starts with an S, I can't think of the name right now. It caused her to become diabetic. Personally, I want nothing to do with the pills they are pushing nowadays. They create the pills and then find a disease for it. One example is Viagra. It was created for high blood pressure. Then they found it worked for men with "other" problems. They're making billions and it never was used for high blood pressure.

As I said, if it works for you...great. I'm just someone that would want it proven to me that I really needed a drug before I would take it. Doctors had me taking an aspirin everyday for years for my heart. Now I live with tinnitus 24/7. My ears ring constantly and I stagger like I'm drunk. Another doctor had me taking anti-acid pills for stomach pain and sickness. He also told me to take Mylanta when it became severe. I tried telling them it wasn't working and the pain was unbearable. They increased the pills to two a day. Anyway, in June of '09 I almost died. The surgeon said I would have been dead withing 72 hours without the emergency surgery I had. It was my gall bladder, not GERD. He said he didn't know how I had lived with such pain for so long. But the doctors give out these anti-acid pills like candy. Everyone has GERD or depression nowadays...or so it seems.

Sorry, I just don't like taking pills for everything. They use the term "side effects" when actually its the effects of the medication causing the problems. And please don't tell me I don't know because I've never been depressed. You don't know the hell I've been through. I just believe there are other ways to deal with life. A doctor gave me Zanex for anxiety several years ago. I almost ended up in the psychiatric ward from that stuff. I started saying I wanted to die all because of someone at work that didn't like me telling her it wasn't fair for her to take a two hour lunch. Anyway, long story, but it wasn't worth going bonkers by taking Zanex. That stuff is dangerous IMO.

I truly am happy for you if the anti-depressants help you. However, the power of the mind is incredible when something is believed strong enough. Blessings to all, Puzzle....this is all just my opinion.

I want to share with all of you a story about my depression and an 'episode' I had about six weeks ago:

Depression is a fairly new concept to me. It began as anxiety in mid-May of this year. It was sudden; I began having frequent panic attacks for no apparent reason. Eventually it caused me to quit my job because I could not handle having panic attacks on the job, which is where most of the more intense ones would occur.

Around early August, my anxiety, as I began to learn to cope with it and calm myself down when the symptoms would begin to manifest themselves, seemed to transform itself into depression. It started as a down mood that I diagnosed myself as a situational depression due to my life changing quite suddenly. But as time went on, it only got worse.

In September, I began having several severe depression 'episodes'. The worst of which occurred in late September.

I had just come home from seeing a psychologist. She spent most of the session asking vague, non-related questions and typing my information in to her computer and was not very helpful at all. Needless to say I was not feeling confident in this woman and was quite upset.

I went upstairs to talk to my mother about how the session went. I explained how I felt and what I was thinking. She started talking, but I do not know or remember what she was saying, because as she was talking, I zoned out staring at the wall. While in this 'zoned out' state, I could feel the pessimism, helplessness, and anxiety building in my head.

Eventually, it all became too much to bear. I quickly stood up and started pacing around the room. The thoughts I was having kept racing in and out of my head. It would jump from me hating everything and everyone to wanting to kill myself. I was having very strong impulses to kill myself. I wanted to do it right then and there. I did not care that my mother was right there; I did not care what anyone thought or what it would do to my family and friends.

I just wanted it to end.

I literally felt trapped. I felt like I had nowhere to go. I felt like I could not escape this feeling. It sounds weird but I wanted to rip my brain out of my head and throw it across the room. I wanted to somehow detach myself from my own body. I felt as if my soul wanted to escape, but my body and my mind would not let it.

I felt like a prisoner.

I could not breathe. My heart was racing. My whole body ached. My head felt clogged and pressurized. All of this of course triggered both an anxiety attack and a panic attack; the anxiety being from the stress and emotional and mental pain I was feeling, and the panic being from my hypochondriac paranoia that, for what ever reason, the difficulty breathing and heart racing was due to something else, such as a heart attack.

As you can probably imagine, a depression, anxiety, and panic attack all at once is not a pleasant experience.

That was my worst 'episode', and that is what finally pushed me over the edge. I had given all of the alternative methods of dealing with depression a shot and nothing was working. The next day I attempted to admit myself to a psychiatric hospital, but they refused me because I have no insurance. So I went to the emergency room where they prescribed me Xanax. I have taken it ever since and it has prevented episodes like this thus far.

I apologize for the long post, but I wanted to share my experience with all of you.

For those who are in the position I was in and wish to use alternative and natural methods of dealing with depression, by all means do what you feel will work best for you. But please keep an open mind; you must keep medication on the table, even if it is as a last resort like it was for me. I'm in no way being an advocate for Big Pharma and medications, because as I have said, I am still strongly against them. However, taking a medication like Xanax, which is effective and surprisingly safe if taken as directed, can help you to at least begin to live a semi-normal life again.

reply to post by DOADOA


Well I'm not exactly saying that, I'm saying they are looking for the solution in the wrong places.

I for one believe every problem have a solution, and you don't need to have a degree to figure it out.

I believe all they have to do is to change their lifestyle.

It is obvious that the lifestyle is the problem, anyone who lives not according to his wishes will be depressed, heck I was depressed as F when I worked for one week, honestly, for one week, I quit the next week

I know what I want, and I will go for it.

I won't live my life as seen on TV, I won't live my life like a cool guy in the street who influenced me, or a gangsta, or a hustler, or a PIMP, or a hardout religious person.

I will live my life the way I want to.

No one should be forced to live the way they don't want to. But the problem in West is, that people are not forced, they are tricked, they are in someways or another brainwashed by the media.

I was tricked also, thought the life of gangsterism was good, but honestly, no, it isn't, I been there done that.

Actually I have had many different lifestyles, until I slowly reached my comfort zone, I'm still not there fully, but I'm getting really close.

I have never agreed more on somebody talking about depression.
I've had clinical depression for the past three or four years now, it's been one hell of a ride so far.

Like you said, panic attacks, anxiety, all that stuff happens to me on just about a daily basis... I'm trying to figure out ways to deal with it, or ignore it but it doesn't seem to work that way...
Even when I had a pretty good life in a nice home with nice parents who cared about me, friends who loved me, etc etc, it was a major problem, now that my life has noticeably gone downhill, it hasn't gotten better, it hasn't gotten worse.

Over absolutely nothing I can break down into tears, start shaking, become covered in sweat and totally frustrated to the point where I get bad ass headaches... The list goes on forever about what happens and what you feel but there is not much point in going on about it.
Depression is a lot worse than a lot of people think it is, I have a friend who has anxiety and always complains about it, I tell him I (for the most part) understand even though Depression and Anxiety are generally different, they still tie together in a way, if you have Depression, the chances are that you have Anxiety as well, and I believe it is the other way around as well.
People just seem to think depression is all in somebody's head and that anybody who has depression is a 'pussy' or just looking for attention, which is total crap.
Never once in my life have I really asked for anybody's attention, never once in my life have I gone out of my way to get attention from anybody by doing something either.
It's ridiculous how ignorant people can be about things, and I understand that if they don't have depression themselves they will never totally understand.

I try to keep depression to myself now, I don't bring it up when I'm feeling down, if I'm having an attack I won't tell anybody about it, I won't do anything really except for let it take it's course. Throughout years of trying therapy and prescription drugs (which don't work in my opinion), I've also come to the conclusion that I don't think anybody really cares when you tell them you have depression, explain to them how your life is a constant struggle, or anything else like that.. Which in my eyes it really is. If I could change myself to not having depression I would without any second thoughts about it, I'm sure that's reasonable too.
Having social problems as well as depression is what really bothers me the most, even if I wanted to try talking to somebody about all of my problems, I don't think I would be able to.
I can hardly trust my closest friends anymore because of depression as well as being socially awkward in ways, I've had girls who like me but I'm too afraid to get close to them, and I think because of my depression I'll just end up bringing them down and that will ultimately bring me down more than depression itself already is.

I'm basically going on about nothing right now... But my point I am trying to make is depression is ridiculous on how it can affect people, how it CAN be different for everybody in ways, and how it can change a person so drastically.

Eh, these are things I have learned:

- Regular exercise doesn't do crap. In fact, a lot of the time it makes you hate yourself even more because you can't get past a certain plateau.

- Someone evaluating your psyche listens to you for 20 seconds so they can write up a prescription for medication.

- Clinical depression isn't "just a bad day at work". It's pretty much like the feeling of having to bury your loved ones day in and day out.

- People within your vicinity don't really care or are unable to comprehend the magnitude of what's going on inside your head, but will simply dismiss it and just call you a negative person.

- Eating is good, man. Make sure to get in all meals per day.

- You are alone.

Originally posted by Puzzlemaniac
reply to post by PETROLCOIN

 

Has anyone that supports taking anti-depressants read the book, "The Emperor's New Drugs by Iving Kirsch, Ph.D." ? I feel like I'm about to be surrounded by a pack of angry wolves, but I do not support the taking of anti-depressants. I worked for many years in private homes. I can honestly say I saw a bottle of anti-depressants in nearly every house I was in. Even the little kids were on them. If the kids weren't taking anti-depressants then they were being over amped on Ritalin or Dexadrine or some other "upper".

Has anyone seen the movie Serenity? Is this what we want, a world where everyone is mellow and happy? I don't. Not that I believe anti-depressants even really increase serotonin levels. Has anyone here actually had a test done to show them their brain and been able to actually see they need these drugs? I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies. I believe anti-depressants work because the people taking them believe they do: power of the mind. Now I'm not talking about serious mental disorders like schizophrenia. I'm taking about what millions of doctors are diagnosing as clinical depression.

I refuse to argue about this subject. It's like abortion. I truly suggest you read the book I mentioned. Studies have been done that show as many people that took placebos improved as those that took the real drugs. The resluts of these studies have been suppressed by the pharmaceutical companies. It's a multi-billion dollar industry.

Having said that, I want to say this is America and you are still free to take whatever pills you want. If they work for you, then great, go for it. I know three people that have had and one still has a court case pending for the "side effects" of drugs. One nearly died and was awarded apppx. $250K for Phen-Phen (sp.?) Another had a massive stroke from a drug like Cymbalta for muscle pain. My current friend is suing for a drug that starts with an S, I can't think of the name right now. It caused her to become diabetic. Personally, I want nothing to do with the pills they are pushing nowadays. They create the pills and then find a disease for it. One example is Viagra. It was created for high blood pressure. Then they found it worked for men with "other" problems. They're making billions and it never was used for high blood pressure.

As I said, if it works for you...great. I'm just someone that would want it proven to me that I really needed a drug before I would take it. Doctors had me taking an aspirin everyday for years for my heart. Now I live with tinnitus 24/7. My ears ring constantly and I stagger like I'm drunk. Another doctor had me taking anti-acid pills for stomach pain and sickness. He also told me to take Mylanta when it became severe. I tried telling them it wasn't working and the pain was unbearable. They increased the pills to two a day. Anyway, in June of '09 I almost died. The surgeon said I would have been dead withing 72 hours without the emergency surgery I had. It was my gall bladder, not GERD. He said he didn't know how I had lived with such pain for so long. But the doctors give out these anti-acid pills like candy. Everyone has GERD or depression nowadays...or so it seems.

Sorry, I just don't like taking pills for everything. They use the term "side effects" when actually its the effects of the medication causing the problems. And please don't tell me I don't know because I've never been depressed. You don't know the hell I've been through. I just believe there are other ways to deal with life. A doctor gave me Zanex for anxiety several years ago. I almost ended up in the psychiatric ward from that stuff. I started saying I wanted to die all because of someone at work that didn't like me telling her it wasn't fair for her to take a two hour lunch. Anyway, long story, but it wasn't worth going bonkers by taking Zanex. That stuff is dangerous IMO.

I truly am happy for you if the anti-depressants help you. However, the power of the mind is incredible when something is believed strong enough. Blessings to all, Puzzle....this is all just my opinion.

Excellent post. Two of my very close friends are benzo, and opiate fiends. He is prescribed zoloft, but he doesn't take it thankfully after we told him how slow he was after taking it. He is still slow because of the benzos, but with zoloft it was even worse. Prescribed SSRIs just damage your brain. Chemical lobotomy.

Also, forgot to add:

- Finding one person that you can confide in will beat all the professional help that you could ever get in a lifetime. You don't need a masters degree in psychology to empower someone and give them a reason to live life.

Originally posted by PETROLCOINYes, there is a difference.
Clinical depression is a true disorder of the chemicals of the brain which cannot be treated or cured by going for a walk or talking to a friend.

I can prove that this is a lie that you have been decieved by.

What test do they do to show Scientifically that you have a chemical imbalance in the brain in order to diagnose depression?

That is why it's all just make believe made up really. There is no scientific test to determine that.

And telling you that you are wrong is not heartless, no. I have a heart that is why I am telling all of you that you are wrong and you believe in fantasy and myth.

Depression is a state of mind, it's your attitude.

There is no scientific test to say " they have X amount of chemicals thus are obviously depressed".

This Depression is a disease bullcrap is totally unscientific and utter garbage.

And the people pushing it seem to really lack critical thinking skills imo. Sorry to be a jerk but "woe is me" threads like this always chap my hide.

But whatever. Go take your black label pills for your "depression" and enjoy the side effects....

But know that I am an enemy of these lies and I will stand up against them whenever I have to. Just because the mainstream believes in something with no evidence, doesn't mean I have to be a zombie and believe in their religious fantasies with them.

Originally posted by Whine Flu
Eh, these are things I have learned:

- Regular exercise doesn't do crap. In fact, a lot of the time it makes you hate yourself even more because you can't get past a certain plateau.

- Someone evaluating your psyche listens to you for 20 seconds so they can write up a prescription for medication.

- Clinical depression isn't "just a bad day at work". It's pretty much like the feeling of having to bury your loved ones day in and day out.

- People within your vicinity don't really care or are unable to comprehend the magnitude of what's going on inside your head, but will simply dismiss it and just call you a negative person.

- Eating is good, man. Make sure to get in all meals per day.

- You are alone.

Regular exercise doesn't do anything even though a psychologist or somebody similar will say it does help...
I have tried it many times, mostly just going for walks, I will admit it has helped clear my mind a little bit, but as soon as I'm back at home, or just not walking anymore its back to the same thing, ya know? I'm sure it's different for everybody pretty much. I mean depression can't be the same for everybody who has it.

I definitely agree about the person evaluating your psyche, just listening for a bit and shoving pills down your throat, that's how it's been since the beginning of drugs becoming a way of helping people, and that's how it always will be. The way I see it, psychologists, psychiatrists, whatever people call them now, they do what they do as a JOB. That's what they think of it every morning they wake up, 'Oh, I have to go to work today.' I don't think at all it's them, WANTING to do it, they don't wake up saying, 'Oh, I want to go help these people today.' and even if they did see it that way, they do a brutal job at it, I strongly believe they do it for their pay check and that's all.
Never once have I had any 'professional' that tried to make things better actually succeed, instead they've only ever brought me down more.

All I hear from my household every day is something along the lines of "Oh, you're upset, like every other day, I'm Luke I have a big shadow over my head and I can't be happy ever, instead I'm the most negative person ever and I hate everything." and I guess that's the way see it because they either don't care to try and understand, or they're just close minded.

Eating makes me feel great, I eat as much as I can... I feel better because I don't really gain an ounce, it could be because I'm fairly young still, and have a good metabolism.. That would make sense, and I enjoy eating more than just about anything these days.

I would like to share my thoughts on this matter , from my experience (got badly depressed couple of years ago and my mother have committed suicide after 5 years of depression and she tried all kinds of medication) all I can say is that I had to go through a process of "rebuild my ego" from "scratch" or find out who I'm, if that's is possible anyway that's how I see this, to overcome my situation, and along the process I got out of depression some where(no I have NOT found yet who I really am and etc..., still in the search) ... but that's kind of a long story so... (i didn't went to any doctor or took any pills , only MJ) and I must say, reading Hindu philosophy helped me a lot (The Bhagavad Gita is a good start) doing japa and meditation also... I do believe this is a serious disorder and I'm not saying you should not take medications.
Good luck everyone

OM Shanti !

Peace

PS: Getting rid off my TV set a couple of weeks ago seems to be the most intelligent thing I've ever done! So far much better vibes around here...

Oh yeah.

Saying that Depression is a real physical disease is foolish too.

Eugenicists will use that as an excuse to cull the "depressed" from society as unfit one day, so that they don't pass down their genetic disorder onto further hapless generations...

And who is the only group that typically stands up against TPTB in the first place? Unhappy people usually...

So that will be a sly way for TPTB to get rid of their opposition while at the same time getting rid of these "depressed" people.

You are playing right into the hand of Eugenics.

reply to post by GraveDigger

I have tried it many times, mostly just going for walks, I will admit it has helped clear my mind a little bit, but as soon as I'm back at home, or just not walking anymore its back to the same thing

one among possible causes is non-ecological zone where you have lived.

reply to post by muzzleflash


We can do things like PET scans and fMRIs and see if there are areas of the brain that are less active than they should be. If they're less active that means that there is a deficit of neurotransmitters. Then there's also the fact that depression has a high heritability, meaning that there is a genetic component to it and it's not just "in your mind." So, if other ailments with a genetic component, like Huntington's chorea, are diseases, why isn't depression a disease?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Depression is a state of mind, it's your attitude.

Absolutely!

Earlier in this thread I said that I didn't want to get drawn into a discussion. I think it's because I'm tired of trying to convince people about my own personal views regarding depression.

Note that I said that I experience depression, not I suffer from it.

I've suffered from severe depression from a very young age, and I know medical science can help it, by treating the symptoms. Few specialist attempt to treat the causes...and I believe strongly that depression, to any degree can be dealth with and totally eradicated from someone's life without medical aid. I've seen it happen before and I've experienced it myself! Yes, medicine can treat it, but just because you have not seen a way out of it without the use of medicine does not mean you can't; you can!

Of course, for everyone, the cause(s) of depression is different. When one understands what is the true caus(s), only then can it be removed from your life.

I too read the title of this thread and had to catch my breath. Just last week I was in Ottawa, Ontario for a national campaign sponsored by all of the provincial components of unions from across the country that represent public sector workers. It was a very eye opening experience on mental health and the pandemic that we're currently facing. I'm living in Canada so any stats I provide in this thread are based on Canadian numbers. But I can say based on research that the numbers for the United States are worse and the supports are less.

In Canada, every single day over 500,000 workers call off due to mental health issues.

Mental health costs Canada over 51 billion dollars every year and is under funded by over 40 billion.

Across all sectors of government, mental health is an enormous cost and is hidden in the budgets of each sector. The true amounts of what governments spend on mental health will never be known until all sectors sit and look at their books. But nobody looks because nobody wants that headache. It is a crisis and we're sitting by doing nothing.

Only one province in Canada actually recognizes post traumatic stress disorder as an illness. (Nova Scotia)

Canada is the only G8 country that doesn't have a strategic plan to deal with mental health.

 

 

Depression is very real and even those that do acknowledge its' existence can't understand its' power unless they've fallen victim. One in five people have, are or will suffer from depression, and I've even had statistics that said as high as one in three. It's enormous the number. The the real problem that we face with this issue is the lack of compassion we see from people. Those that don't know, don't know. And of those that do, too often compassion isn't shared among this population.

We have two families. One family has a father who is depressed and gets up and goes to work every day. He puts food on the table and makes it through the day. The other family has a father who's depressed who can't get out of bed and can't get food on the table. The father who is getting to work each day and putting food on the table doesn't have much compassion for the father who can't get to work because he's thinking, "if I can, you can".

People deserve to be treated equally. Being treated equally doesn't mean being treated the same. Sometimes people need special treatment in order to be treated equally. People in wheel chairs need ramps to enter a building. This is special treatment in order to be treated equally.

But it's difficult to fully comprehend how this illness can affect everyone differently.

At the end of the day, dollars talk. And our governments need to open their eyes and ante up some funding.

Originally posted by Sanjaya
I would like to share my thoughts on this matter , from my experience (got badly depressed couple of years ago and my mother have committed suicide after 5 years of depression and she tried all kinds of medication) all I can say is that I had to go through a process of "rebuild my ego" from "scratch" or find out who I'm, if that's is possible anyway that's how I see this, to overcome my situation, and along the process I got out of depression some where(no I have NOT found yet who I really am and etc..., still in the search) ... but that's kind of a long story so... (i didn't went to any doctor or took any pills , only MJ) and I must say, reading Hindu philosophy helped me a lot (The Bhagavad Gita is a good start) doing japa and meditation also... I do believe this is a serious disorder and I'm not saying you should not take medications.
Good luck everyone

OM Shanti !

Peace

you have gone along righteous way i just can recommend to you to stay away from different fanatic sects & to learn Sanscrit

reply to post by Xcalibur254

We can do things like PET scans and fMRIs and see if there are areas of the brain that are less active than they should be.

less activity of whatever brain area says Nothing about prime roots of that fact