Killing In Self Defense

If it comes to a kill or be killed situation, or a danger to my family, or anyone innocent for that matter, and I am in a position to kill in order to protect the innocent/myfamily/self, I will not hesitate nor will I consider the legal rampifications.

I have had experience of this in the line of duty, and i've seen many different and surprising reactions to this kind of scenario.

People i thought would kill at the drop of a hat have frozen, and the person you thought wouldn't say boo to a goose has gone totaly psycho when pushed into defending their life.

Thats the thing, defending yourself against a beating and defending yourself when you know it could be the end can produce some very different responses.

On a personal level, only a couple of times have i had to defend my kids, when they were little. I am usualy the most mellow person you will find when it comes to losing my temper, it just doesn't happen....but the moment someone went to attack my kids (just a homeless guy with a bottle), it brought out a nasty streak in me i would rather not see to often.

I think you do what you have to do....and you have little idea what you are capable of until the time comes.

CX.

In NC, we have a "make my day" law...if someone breaks into your home and you feel threatened...you can kill them.

Further, when away from home and someone threatens you and you have made all "reasonable" attempts to retreat...then you can defend yourself.

Now, what little we know about your circumstance...are you absolutely sure, beyond a shadow that this individual is guilty? When I was getting a divorce about 20 years ago...I was accussed of one of the worst things you could to your daughter by my ex-wife, her mother, and a doctor on the take. It was a living hell for me for about 4 months until I was vindicated and proven innocent and could see my little girl again. I now have custody of her, she is at a major university and doing quite well......

Before you do anything, be damn sure about what you are doing and what the facts are... you can't protect anyone sitting in jail for something irrational.

Originally posted by CX

Thats the thing, defending yourself against a beating and defending yourself when you know it could be the end can produce some very different responses.

Any beating could kill you, a blood clot could be formed by trauma from the beating and go to the brain heart or lungs.ECT ECT ECT
all these can be deadly. there is no such thing as a harmless beating.

In Calif the laws covering self defence state
That you reasonably believe that you are in imminent danger of being killed, seriously injured,
That you believe that immediate force is necessary to prevent that danger,
That you use no more force than necessary to defend against that danger.

Some old guy that has had a heart attack and by pass surgery may be forced to use a method of self protection then some healthy young guy
The young guy may fight his attacker with fist.
The old guy may just blow you away with a 45 auto.
Both would be legal.

Problem is can or will the attacker even care what the health condition of his victim is.
Or will the attacker go for the victim that is the easiest pray.

it this case its not and should not be the victims problem if the attacker is carried away in a body bag.
the victim is not at fault.
the victim is not responsible for the attackers actions or the consequences of the attackers actions.

if you are attacked the Marquess of Queensberry rules do not apply.
you use the maximum amount of force to YOU are PHYSICALLY able to apply in the minimum amount of time.
in a attack where your attacker has no weapon.
If you are disabled or handicapped this does and should not be limited to physical force, Use of a weapon to even the odds is acceptable.
if you are able-bodied you many use any part of your body to respond to the attack hands, feet, head. elbows, knees. if a body slam will work that is even fair. (i know because i have body slammed someone that was attacking me. a good body slam can take a attacker right off his feet.) a driving his balls up to his throat with your foot is fair.

If your attacker has a weapon
If you have a gun pop a cap. It does not mater if he just has a knife, wrench, screw driver, ECT ECT ECT. He is armed pop the cap. Any thing that can cause death or seriously injury, pop the cap.

With me if my attacker is unarmed and i win i will break both of the attackers arms.
Then when he get to jail he will have to find a friend to wipe his a**.
This new Friend will likely to take his pay for his service while he is there.

Originally posted by ANNED

Originally posted by CX

Thats the thing, defending yourself against a beating and defending yourself when you know it could be the end can produce some very different responses.

Any beating could kill you, a blood clot could be formed by trauma from the beating and go to the brain heart or lungs.ECT ECT ECT
all these can be deadly. there is no such thing as a harmless beating.

Yeah i know what you mean, but most people do not accociate a fist fight with the possibility of losing your life. Yes you defend yourself as best as you can, i mean no-one likes getting hurt.

When you are faced with the very real prospect of you being killed though, especially at very close range, your self preservation level seems to shoot for the roof.

CX.

Okay so i live in OR, i know that the law for just fighting someone isnt fair at all, its called measure 11, and you have to be hit by the person if a physical confrentation were to break out, i think its somewhere along the lines of one or two hits before you can ultimately (defend) your attacker which i dont think is very fair, but can manage. The other thing that was asked was how do i know that this person is without a doubt guilty?

1- Video evidence (from detective) of things things that i cant mention.

2- Physical evidence as in a CPU, that heald more evidence.

3- They also found 5 or 6 different hidden cameras all throughout the house (hooked to the internet)

4- Bomb making material

5- Reason for not being able to obtain another restraining order, is because its been a yr, and there isnt anything new on this guy since hes been back out, hes out on POST bail.

I think this is more than enough for everyone on here. Mind you this she got from the detective, so we know yes it is accurate.

I would also like to mention that all this is such a fantastic help you have no idea, and i thank you ATS members for being so supportive, One nation under ATS! lol

reply to post by achaiah86

You have not yet given us any reason why you believe this man is a threat to you and your family.
Instead, you start off asking about killing.

You've said the Lord watches over you. Well if you want to stay on the Lord's side, you'd better have a darned good reason before you kill someone, otherwise you are simply committing murder. Believing he might attack you, even believing he will attack you, is not enough.
You can only kill without it being murder if the person is actually attacking you or those around you in a way that you believe could kill.

I've once killed in self defense, but that was an accident, (on my part).
I was grabbed from behind one night on a quiet street by a guy who had been hiding behind a corner, and he was dead before I realised what was happening. I was seventeen, and I guess he thought I was easy prey.

However I've also had my life saved by a would-be murderer, who had been stalking me to kill me in revenge for his friends all dying in Vietnam. As he explained later, Vietnamese girls had killed his friends, and he had to kill sometimes in revenge or he couldn't cope. What he hadn't realised was that I was only out that night because I was planning to kill myself, by throwing myself under a train. So when he showed me how he ws going to strangle me, my only thought, (being in deep depression,) was: 'great, now it won't be suicide'.

Then he let me go, saying I had 10 minutes start before he followed me, but I refused to run, telling him I wanted to die. He went so pale I felt sorry for him, and then started shouting at me, telling me how precious life was and why I shouldn't throw it away. He snatched my handbag, but it was only to find my address, and he marched me home. Later I slipped out to try again, but he was sitting by my front gate.
So we ended up talking all night, and he made a pact with me, that he would stop killing if I would start living, and we helped each other.


So don't make up your mind to kill. You never know what God has planned, or how precious another's life is to Him. Anything can happen, and it may be good.

If you have faith in God, have faith whole-heartedly and really trust. Otherwise your faith is only empty words.
The sheep Jesus most loves to save is the sheep that seems lost for good. Instead of killing, you may be able to help.

reply to post by Kailassa


I think you should re read what i wrote, i was not saying i was going to outright killl him if i saw him, and why re read>?because, im not a violent person, but when im backed in a corner you better believe i will take care of whats mine. I also never said i was out and sent to do Gods work. I think that would not only be naive to think, that (what the heck is up with these spiders!) sorry, spider just was on my laptop. Excuse me, to think that im some chosen one i think not. I think we as a whole are chosen to do our part. If God was against killing, why then does he send his Angels to wipe out mass in the End of days, (the rapists, killers, etc). I really hope you re-read what i wrote, and my vaues as YOU see them.

reply to post by achaiah86


Sorry to say it but you make me laugh. Hahaha! Because the information is from a detective it is accurate? Please give me a break. Remember, anything a LEO tells you can be a lie, they are allowed to say anything they wish, deceive anybody they wish to, to accomplish anything they wish to. With me they tried pictures and so called CPU evidence to. They had managed to convince my wife with them until they also decided to charge her with the same sort of evidence along with so called witness testimony. She knew she hadn't so she realized maybe I hadn't. What she had forgotten and the LEO's had not known was that due to my job at the time ALL my internet usage was being continually monitered. When they realized there was no way I could be framed like that and that as a result I was investigating them they told the street cops I was physically HUNTING street cops! I guess they hoped one of them would shoot first. So I suggest innocent until PROVEN guilty and even than don't be so sure these days.

As to what the OP was asking. I would rather take my chances with 12 people in a court than being 6 feet underground or going to my child's funeral. The so called LAW these days has nothing to do with JUSTICE. It is a game that is played to try and keep people in line. I believe most LEO's are not even aware of what is going on, they just follow orders as they know little about what is actually happening. They just follow policy and procedures, not the law itself.

Keeping this in mind, for the OP, there is always a way to deal with things if you know they are coming. Usually there is many ways so long as you don't wait until you have no choice. If you know from your own eyes and your own investigation, not depending on what may be false info given you to entrap you, than you will probably be able to think of a way to handle it without being involved in violence. For me I found other lines of authority and this resulted in a number of LEO's losing there jobs. Most of those working with those LEO's also ended paying for it. I also got my daughter back, basically unharmed physically. It can be done. You just have to have the time to think about it. I know it is hard when under such a situation to actually THINK but you have to do it. It is the unthinking reaction to a situation that gets you in trouble. So think about other alternatives, make a plan, implement the plan, and adjust it to how the circumstances turn out. Don't wait! Be prepared to do what you have to if things come to a head before your plan has worked and do what you have to. Good luck!

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


I don't think "computer forensics" should be allowed in the court of law at all. It is easy to change dates on files etc if you know what you are doing. It must be pretty easy to infect computers and upload files to them, take control of them if you know what you are doing. That is how people get botnets, and a lot of IRC channels I used to go to had control of computers that were in businesses with fast connections, used them as fileserving bots. If you have a wireless router, a war driving hacker could be using your connection for various bad things. I don't see how any lawyer not in cahoots with the prosecution does not raise plausible deniability for any case that is dependant on computer evidence.

It seems to me that this conversation has become off topic a little bit. I dont know how much more i can put it in plain English. I have thought. planned and know what i will do IF and thats a big IF, he would even make it to my frontdoor, i highly doubt. I do live in a real world, when im not researching what ATS has to offer. I think if one was to look again Im not one to over exagerate on these situations. I do not know this person, correct. But on the same note, i trust what my fiance has to say and am not going to get into that topic anymore. Look at the name of the thread and think a little bit for a momment. That is a pretty general thread right? TO EACH HIS OWN. Does anyone know that theyre can be a fine line of whats the wrong or right way to handle a dangerous situation. I dont care who is at my door! if i dont know them they aint commin in! as simple as that!

Originally posted by achaiah86
yes thank you very much/ im just wondering how is it that these people are free to go after what they do?, and they are considered to be the scum of the Earth! even gang bangers dont likem. It just really frustrates me that this is the way in America it has to be.

Well here are two points to think about.

1) we have an adversarial system where the best lawyer can win and the judge is sentencer and umpire.

2) THere is a issue of eing beyond reasonable doubt where by there is a balance of likelihoods that the accused did what they did for criminal reasons....

3) Bad laws. Be it bad decisions that enter the cannon of case law or actually badly drafted laws...We recently seem to have had a lot of Kneejerk laws which will, I am sure, prove to be wrong laws.

It is better for someone to mess with me than to mess with my family....

I read an article about some pedophiles and rapists who were demanding chemical or physical castration I felt a kind of sympathy for them but we have so many therapists here in the west you would have thought thay they would have been cured..

reply to post by achaiah86


Than the answer I have for you is this. There is no right or wrong way to handle a dangerous situation. The reason this is so is because there are people in the world who would rather die than hurt someone else or break the law. There are others who would rather take their chances running. Still others who would have no problem killing or breaking the law. My version is whatever it takes to keep me and my family alive and unhurt preferably with the least amount of blow back. That is why I say that if you know something is coming to think about various alternatives in order to forestall the necessity of deciding on the spur of the moment. With time there is usually a way to change the situation to your advantage. Just do not allow those in so called authority to make your decisions for you. They do not have your best interests at heart.

Originally posted by achaiah86
I dont know how much more i can put it in plain English.

...thats the problem, sweetie - you dont convey plainly... your syntax is disjointed, you employ evasive hearsay and odd thoughts that have no relevance... is something else is going on with you?...

Originally posted by achaiah86
reply to post by Kailassa

 

I think you should re read what i wrote, i was not saying i was going to outright killl him if i saw him, and why re read>?because, im not a violent person, but when im backed in a corner you better believe i will take care of whats mine. I also never said i was out and sent to do Gods work. I think that would not only be naive to think, that (what the heck is up with these spiders!) sorry, spider just was on my laptop. Excuse me, to think that im some chosen one i think not. I think we as a whole are chosen to do our part. If God was against killing, why then does he send his Angels to wipe out mass in the End of days, (the rapists, killers, etc). I really hope you re-read what i wrote, and my vaues as YOU see them.

Your reply shows no rationality at all. The idea of you thinking you are justified in killing someone is frightening, as you are not showing any rational ability to analyse a situation.

Perhaps you should stick to killing spiders.
You think the God of the Bible is not against people killing?
Perhaps you've never read the Ten Commandments.

Btw,there's a big difference between the Christian belief in a final judgement and you bumping off somone who you've possibly confused with someone else.