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Originally posted by thecinic
That is some neat technology, it can't be any unsafer then a complete nuclear facility......
Originally posted by Authenticity
It is amazing, I feel that the future of the world is leaning on nuclear reactors that are safe and can virtually run forever as long as we keep feeding it uranium which the government makes in abundance.
Originally posted by Kailassa
Uranium is mined. Thats why we have uranium mines.
And right now it looks like the world is heading for a shortage of uranium.
Originally posted by mudskipper
and what about waste that comes with all fission reactors? Fission still seems quite archaic no matter how it is implemented. There are some exciting fusion projects out there, particurarly focus fusion and new insights into the phenomenon of cold fusion. I look forward to the day when fission is a thing of the past, along with flat earth theory and steam engines.
focusfusion.org...
I'm not sure how sound this technology is, but my first question is, am I the only one who thinks it's more than a little inconvenient to have to dig this thing up out of the ground every 8-10 years to re-fuel it? It actually sounds like a nightmare digging that thing up every 8 years.
Originally posted by Authenticity
www.nextenergynews.com
The self sufficient nuclear generator is simply buried underground
Originally posted by mudskipper
focusfusion.org...
Originally posted by ignorant_ape
another application :
marine powerplants [ for merchant naval craft ]
Originally posted by Kailassa
Originally posted by Authenticity
It is amazing, I feel that the future of the world is leaning on nuclear reactors that are safe and can virtually run forever as long as we keep feeding it uranium which the government makes in abundance.
Governments make uranium, do they?
Do they make gold and silver too?
Next you'll tell us the government makes latinum.
Uranium is mined. Thats why we have uranium mines.
And right now it looks like the world is heading for a shortage of uranium.
i don't know why nuclear energy is suddenly en vogue on ATS, but nevertheless i believe that it's,
Once through use of Thorium isn't any better unless you have some form of continuous reprocessing like in LFTR.
such as once-through use of uranium fuels (no improvement on the waste front)
lack of containment
less supervision
if you use metal oxides, the fuel won't burn and will only melt at extremely high temperatures (to the tune of 3000K), providing inherent safety even in case of an exposed core.
if you're using nitrides or worse, hydrides, the fuel will chemically burn in contact with oxygen, releasing a lot of radioactivity in the process, much like Chernobyl's graphite did.
the most important task in nuclear power is IMHO building large scale breeders that work and reliably produce energy, to prove the concept in the eyes of the public and generate enough revenue to sustain and expand nuclear power on its own without subsidies.
Originally posted by C0bzz
Once through use of Thorium isn't any better unless you have some form of continuous reprocessing like in LFTR.
not that much better, you'll still need some fissile startup charge but as long as breeding ratio is 1 or more you'll never run out of fissile, that's the main difference. the fuel elements will fail at some point, though.
lack of containment
Both have containment. They just might have innovative containment that is somewhat of a different design to existing technology by for example, placing the entire reactor underground. These containments might have difficulty getting licensed by the NRC, but again, they do have containment.
You mean like at Chernobyl and Three Mile Island, both of which used Uranium Dioxide fuel? The Zircalloy fuel cladding melted and the 'metal oxide' fuel formed something similar to a molten concrete even though it technically did not melt.
if you're using nitrides or worse, hydrides, the fuel will chemically burn in contact with oxygen, releasing a lot of radioactivity in the process, much like Chernobyl's graphite did.
There's also a question of exactly how this would happen.
In a Pressurized Water Reactor coolant leaks are problematic for a number of reasons. The coolant is at an extremely high pressure therefore a significant leak will mean that it will be lost as steam, hence complicated safety systems will be required to inject water back into the core. High temperature borated water is corrosive and acidic which makes leaks more likely. And the primary loop loop leaves the reactor pressure vessel to reach the steam generators. If the cladding melts then essentially the entire core will melt down (even though the metal oxide fuel won't technically melt).
Meanwhile a Liquid Metal Reactor has the entire primary loop contained within a single vessel that operates at atmospheric pressure and the fuel will not boil under any circumstances. A containment could also be designed so that even if the reactor vessel had a leak, the coolant will always stay above the fuel (this is what PRISM does). The situation you described is therefore impossible, full stop.
in contact with air, at high temperature hydrogen is expelled from the metal and burns, the remaining metal burns, too,
what would happen to your reactor vessel when the coolant temperature exceeds the capabilities of the material?
Primary coolant circulation for direct heat removal (DHR): Natural
Direct heat removal (DHR): Reactor Vessel Air Cooling System + Multiple Direct Reactor Cooling Systems
www.gen-4.org...
Even in worst case accident events (loss-of-flow and/or loss-of-heat-sink without scram like TMI-2 or Chernobyl initiators), the initial coolant temperature rise will cause thermal expansion of fuel assemblies which increases neutron leakages, and hence the power is brought down all by itself without operator actions or safety systems. Ironically in these events, as the inherent feedbacks try to bring down the power, the Doppler feedback actually contributes positive reactivity. (Recall that Doppler was necessary to protect against inceasing power. When power is coming down, it tries to raise the power.) This feature is unique only with the IFR. The metal fuel operates at low temperature because of a high thermal conductivity (a factor of 10 higher than oxide), so the stored reactivity, (Doppler coefficient) x (temperature difference), is too small to override the negative feedback due to coolant temperature rise. In other words, it's the temperature difference rather than Doppler coeffient itself that enables this unique inherent safety. Therefore, in IFR the Doppler feedback is adequate to deal with overpower transients, and at the same time it enables inherent safety features in the other extreme accident conditions.
www.thesciencecouncil.com...
Very Low Probability Events – Oxide Fuel (cont’d)
Accident termination is by an energetic disassembly of the core
• a large power excursion to mechanically disperse the core
• likely failure of the reactor vessel
• containment structure mitigates releases to the environment
Very Low Probability Events – Metallic Fuel (cont’d)
The result is some core damage, but no reactor damage
– Fermi-1 experienced a metallic fuel melting accident, and was
reloaded and subsequently operated before being shut down
The favorable response to even the most severe accidents is due to
the thermophysical properties of metallic fuel
– Relatively low melting point and high thermal conductivity
– Compatibility with liquid sodium coolant, even when molten
– The key is limited early fuel pin failure and fuel removal from the
core
www-pub.iaea.org...
However, here’s a couple of the technical safety considerations.
- During an unprotected loss-of-flow, the coolant temperature rises rapidly, which introduces negative reactivity feedbacks due to radial expansion of core, control rod drive-line expansion, etc. This brings the power down.
- The high thermal conductivity of metal means that the fuel has far less stored heat to be dissipated in the event of loss of coolant flow, greatly reducing the temperature swings, making passive convective cooling much more feasible. In the safety demos at EBR-II in 1986, completely passive effects brought the coolant (and core) temperature down to ~200 degrees F below the boiling point of the sodium coolant.
bravenewclimate.com...
the illustrations i've seen indicate a reactor several dozen feet below the surface with a heavy lid on
www.hyperionpowergeneration.com...
if accurate, it's better than nothing of course, but it just doesn't compare to a LWR containment.
yes, PWRs have their problems, sure. steam can be recondensed within the containment, however, providing an efficient way of cooling, unless you run totally out of water, that is.
Hyperion Power Generation
Fuel and Coolant Selection
According to Hyperion, the uranium nitride fuel incorporated in the design is generally similar in physical characteristics and neutronics to the standard ceramic uranium oxide fuel that is used at present in modern light water nuclear reactors. However, it has certain beneficial traits - higher thermal conductivity - and thus less retained heat energy - that make it preferable over oxide fuels when used at temperature regimes that are greater than the 250 to 300 °C (482 to 572 °F) temperatures found in light water reactors[8]. By operating at higher temperatures, steam plants can operate at a higher thermal efficiency. The presentation by Hyperion at the ANS 2009 conference mentions the use of the Doppler inherent negative temperature coefficient of reactivity in this reactor as a means of control.[9] Nuclear scientist Alexander Sesonske avers that nitride fuels have both received very little development (as of 1973) and seem to have a very favorable combination of physical properties - especially in fast reactors.[10] Whether this carries over to lead-bismuth cooled reactors is a question not answered in the reviewed literature, though the Soviet Union has worked with this type of reactor before in naval service; in particular, the Alfa class submarine - well known in the West for its high speed operation - was driven by such a lead-bismuth reactor which is known to have worked very effectively.[8]
The Hyperion module has sufficient fuel for 3650 full power days at 70 MWth, is capable of load following, and is meant to be built in pairs; one module can be at power, while another can be under installation or uninstallation at the same time, ensuring reliable supply of electricity.[8]
Safety, Control, And Transport
Four mechanisms of control are used in the reactor. There are two types of control rods - rapid shutdown rods, designed to promptly absorb a large quantity of reactivity from the reactor to bring it below the shutdown margin, and fine-grained working control rods, also known as shims, which are used to compensate for the long-term decrease in reactivity (long-term decrease in Keff) that comes from the nuclear fuel being depleted and fission products being formed. The shims, in particular, have 1.5 metres (4.9 ft) of travel distance which they slowly travel over the life of the reactor. There is a secondary shutdown system consisting of neutron-absorbing boron carbide balls that can be launched into the core in the event the shutdown rods are not responsive and rapid shutdown is called for. Fourth, there is the prompt negative temperature coefficient of reactivity, which prevents the reactor from remaining critical if it should enter into an unsafe temperature range. The reactor is designed so that once shut down, it does not require external agencies aside from natural conduction and convection to surrounding natural media to remove residual heat, qualifying it as highly safe.[8]
The reactor weighs 20 tonnes (44,000 lb) fully fueled (including coolant), and it can be transported by truck or by rail to its destination. Radiation protection during transport is integral, making it nearly impossible for any transport accident to threaten the release of radiation. As the coolant is composed of lead (a strong absorber of gamma radiation), the reactor is very safe for humans to be in close proximity to while the reactor is transported; further, if the reactor is allowed sufficient time to eliminate decay heat prior to transport, the lead-bismuth coolant will be in solid phase, thus fixing the internals of the reactor in place, causing the reactor to behave as a single piece of metal if subjected to external shock.[8]
en.wikipedia.org...
Originally posted by C0bzz
In conclusion, there's no way for the Nitride fuel to react with air and burn because it will always be covered by lead which can not boil away and leaks are unlikely.
what would happen to your reactor vessel when the coolant temperature exceeds the capabilities of the material?
Short answer - it won't because the reaction should naturally stop before then, leaving only decay heat.
Chernobyl wouldn't have happened because it was the result of the water boiling, reducing the amount of neutrons being absorbed leading to the power to rise extremely quickly. The Lead Fast Reactor has 'inherent negative reactivity feedback' and even if it did have a positive reactivity feedback the coolant wouldn't of flashed to steam resulting in an explosion because lead boils at 1700 degrees. Instead, the lead would slowly heat up until the reaction was stopped by operator intervention.
Even in worst case accident events (loss-of-flow and/or loss-of-heat-sink without scram
The presentation by Hyperion at the ANS 2009 conference mentions the use of the Doppler inherent negative temperature coefficient of reactivity in this reactor as a means of control.[9] Nuclear scientist Alexander Sesonske avers that nitride fuels have both received very little development (as of 1973) and seem to have a very favorable combination of physical properties - especially in fast reactors.[10]