Is there an evil which is absolute?

reply to post by Vandalour


This guy deserves a dishonorable mention on that list....

en.wikipedia.org...

Repulsive indeed

reply to post by monkey429


the fact that they are atheists, proves my point. they have rejected all knowledge of God and help. they are completely blind and lost. i wouldn't even consider them human. it's easier to be evil when you don't believe in God.

reply to post by DisturbedToo


Exactly. But let's consider a theoratical case where we had the opportunity to kill Hitler while he was a child. Would it be evil knowing that with this one death, we saved millions?

Originally posted by Echtelior
reply to post by xiphias

 

Sure. But which one? There were, are, and will be a few. I don't think that there is such a thing as a black or white civilization of humankind.

Zoom out from that statement and read it again. Maybe you'll find your answer.

reply to post by randomname


It's a bit funny that you mentioned God. I mean, chrisrianity is one of the biggest mass-murdering ideologies in history ( you know, the inqusition, the crusades, etc.)

reply to post by Echtelior


Actually, you just need to get your facts straight.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

To me the Catholic Religion is a pagan religion, not true Christianity. Of course many can't distinguish between the two because they both claim to believe in God.

reply to post by xiphias


True. I missed the ''a'' before the ''civilization''.:-) My mistake.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


Well that's your opinion. The only problam is, you can't prove it. I'm an atheist. To me, every religion is a fairytale. But I can't prove it either that I'm right.

reply to post by Echtelior


Well perhaps not as far as roman catholicism is concerned, however your comment was ignorant and we are supposed to deny ignorance, right? By your logic I could assume that all atheists are immoral, but we would both know that would be wrong, true?

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


''Actually, you just need to get your facts straight.''

What did you mean with that? And what did you want to prove whit those links?

reply to post by Echtelior


That Catholicsm ordered the crusades and the inquisition. So basically, the Crusades were used to seize land, in the "name of god". The inquisition was used to oppress man, in a time when religion ruled over science. If you follow Catholicism you will see that it morphs with the times, ever so changing, so it can always be current and be in bed with modern ideologies. Its easy just to lump everything under one banner, and say its all Christianity, and thats why I showed you the links. Is it any surprise to you that modern day Catholicism embrace the idea of UFOs and aliens? Strange huh?

There is nothing wrong with being an atheist, but at least be an informed one.

Originally posted by Echtelior
reply to post by DisturbedToo

 

Exactly. But let's consider a theoratical case where we had the opportunity to kill Hitler while he was a child. Would it be evil knowing that with this one death, we saved millions?

I have heard this before, But why would I have to kill him? Could I not kill his parents so he is adopted by family members? Or kidnap him and raise him to know the difference between good and evil? or even befriend him as a child and guide him on another path? There is always more than one answer to a question my friend. Personally, to answer your question. I could not kill a young Hitler. Even knowing what I know because any other option may have altered his path just the same.

Disturbedtoo,,,,not disturbed

Evil is a word created by society that is not absolute and is used to further divide. People will harm others because they want and desire and believe in their separateness. Nearly all people are controlled by these beliefs to various degrees. To label a person as evil shows that you have no empathy for them and believe you are somehow better. You don't care about them, how they became this way, or how to help them. Proving only that you in the same place spiritually.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


I knew all of your facts (since it's elementary grade history), and it amazes me how religious people can still remain religious knowing all that. And my personal opinion is that '' that christianity is not my christianity'' is just a bad excuse. But let's stop this debate. We drifted away from the topic of this thread. But I'm open to continue this conversatio on another thread or via messages if you want.

reply to post by Echtelior

So what gives us the right to decide, we are right, they are wrong

Well, generally speaking, society does. If we are living within a society usually we have some say on the societal morals and rules. This is especially the case in free societies more so than in dictatorships and the like. I don't think there is an absolute evil. Some people think that without an absolute evil the entire thing becomes arbitrary but in actuality its the other way around. If evil were truly set in stone there would be no real free will. Instead human society regulates its own morality, things that are beneficial for the group are deemed good, things that are very harmful to an individual or the group are deemed evil. This allows our morals to get better, we eliminate arbitrary rules and unfair restrictions on human behavior and refine our morals.

If God can do anything, can God do evil? No, then evil is nothing, since it is the one thing that God can not do, who can do anything.

Evil is not so much an affliction as a deep set infection. Any misery that is agreed to be everlasting is infinite. If everything is Good, evil is nothing.

-Consolation of Philosophy

reply to post by DisturbedToo


The whole idea of this example is that in a situation with fixed terms, in this case when action is direct evil, but inaction is an indirect, but even greater evil act, we cannot ''win''. So if we chose inaction, we will stay true to our morals and, on the short term, make us good, but, on the long term, it will make us directly responsible for allowing the greater evil to happen. On the other hand, if we chose action, we willingly corrupt our morals for the sake of preventing the greater evil to happen but by doing so, though the outcome is good, we taint the whole intention. So the endconclusion is that in this no-win-situation the question is not will we commit evil, but rather are we selfish enough to ignore the obvious for our own inner peace.

Good and Bad are subjective.
Love and Evil are objective
100% Love is "God"
100% Evil is non-existence, complete absence of Love
99% Evil or any fraction could, I guess, be some type of personification, like a Devil, or Evil force or being,
but 100% is complete nothingness.

Every moral question, for every religion and culture can be answered with that understanding.

example: A man is about to shoot your 5yr old daughter in the head, you can shoot him first. Is it right to do so? Is it moral to do so? Are you justified? Have you sinned?

Answer: You took another life...you chose not to love...you chose to slide down the Evil scale for that person.
You saved a life...you chose to love your daughter more than the man that was going to shoot her.
The bottom line is that in this scenario you chose to love and not to love. Our laws will stand by you in this scenario but believing you were "righteous" will just confuse your soul. ((It also is the problem with every single religion))) They just can't admit doing anything "evil".

We do that with war all the time in the secular world. Taking a life....is taking a life. Look how the Republicans can say yeah to capital punishment yet get pissy about Roe v Wade. Life is life...All walks of life, societies, cultures, have to find a way to justify their evil acts, instead of just being honest and say something like this; "hey, mr. Native American, sorry about having to take your land but we want things our way and since we can have it that way, we are going to." You could argue good and bad all day there. You also can say they chose to love their people more than they chose to love the Natives...also true...The "X" factor of evil in this example is when they lie, murder, justify, convince, record the history, and villify the Natives, and make heroes out of villians that pushes the evil slide bar further and further.
Christian crusades of course also.

We all battle with Love and Evil in almost every single decision we make everyday. Every decision and action slides the scale one way or another, whether it be a lot; killing someone. or a little; smoking a cigarette.

This is a universal. It doesn't matter what religion you are or if you are an atheist. There is no escaping the benefits and consequences in our daily choices to either Love or not to Love. The worst consequence of living a completely evil life is death, non-existence. The worst consequence of living a life of Love is death, non-existence but I could also say that it is possible for the Giants to lose tomorrow but I have no problem putting my entire faith in them winning. My faith in a higher power, the source of love, is based only on my life experience, just like my faith in the Giants tomorrow is based only on 30yrs of watching and following NFL football and 12yrs of fantasy football.

Yes...........There is an Evil which is absolute........it is the "complete" absence of Love.

If there are any Catholics reading this.....It was pointed out to me..(by someone who I thought was going to have a complete meltdown when I was attacking their Christian Fundamentalism) in a newspaper when John Paul II said....."Hell is not so much of a place, as it is a condition"....now this was a couple years after the meltdown and was surprised that they heard a word I was saying, let alone remember that part. Because it is what I have said Hell is.....The complete absence of Love-God....and where isn't Love or God if everywhere? nowhere. non-existence. Atheist have to be on board here. You die....your done...end of story...

Everyone that is honest and sane knows, you feel better loving then you do hating. I'm betting on the Giants to win tomorrow and that there is a "God" who is the source of "Love" and the fun goes on after this life ends.
An Atheist would bet the Timberwolves are going to beat the Giants tomorrow. They lose no matter what on that bet.
An agnostic wouldn't bet until they were able to see the Vegas odds on the Giants game, but at least would know that the Timberwolves are in the NBA.

Originally posted by Echtelior
One of the things which make me think is the question of evil. Usually when people declare an act evil, it's always based on the morals of that persons way of thinking which is, obviously, based on the cultures standars which he or she was raised in. For example, cannibalism is considered as an evil thing by the majority of humankind (me included), but there were human societies where it wasn't. On the contrary. So what gives us the right to decide, we are right, they are wrong. Or the suicide bombings, or communism, etc. So my question is: is there an act of evil which doesn't depend on the conditions?

Absolute evil does exist, but not in humanity, humans are simply tricked, the source of evil comes from beyond.

Second line.

The question of evil, is in the heart of all man.
If he believes in something so absolute- he will create evil or God in the eye of the beholder.
You will live or die depending on your situation.