Suggestions for $2 Trillion dollars!! Someone pay attention!

Ok, I have been following all the November Doomsday threads, and they have some merit, but in all likelihood we will be around in another month to debate more stuff, so we need to go ahead and work towards fixing the politics and economy.

Now, in one of those other threads, somebody made some suggestions for how the bailout could have been spent. We have all seen these suggestions in a variety of different ways, but I want to bring them together, with real data and show several scenarios that would have already worked.

First off the Raw Numbers:

$2,000,000,000,000 That is $2 Trillion dollars
If there are 300 million US residents then that equals
$6,666.67 per person (including children and infants!). That would have been more 10x the tax rebate that Bush gave!
If there are 75 million households then that equals
$26,666.67 per household. That is close to a year's salary for most families!!

According to THIS Bureau of Labor statistic, there are 3.6 million "working poor" familines in the United States with at least 1 parent working full time, but still falling below the poverty line.
How does $555,555.56 per impoverished working family sound? That is how far $2T could have gone!!

What about our next generation?
Well there is $829B in total Student Loan debt that is strapping the next generation of college attendees. These are the future of our country in Engineering, Medicine, Accounting, and even Politics! Anybody think it would stimulate the economy if we forgave all that debt??? An extra $200 or $500 per month in the pockets of young families and entry level workers trying to get ahead?
Sign THIS PETITION if that sounds like a worthwhile investment versus sending our money overseas or to big corporations!

What about all that money that went to carmakers?
They ran bad business plans, and the American public shifted our purchasing power to cheaper, more efficient, and more dependable foreign automobiles, so the government turned around and subsidized the bad plans? Well, according to THIS article the total Auto/Consumer/Revolving debt in the country is $2.48T. The baiout could have wiped out 80% of all consumer debt in one motion!!

Does anybody think the economy would have immediately recovered if all our credit card and automotive debt went away over night? Imagine the purchasing power!! Imagine the production need! Imagine the result on the unemployment rate!!

Now, think about this.
The government gave this money to lenders and manufacturers and it didn't really get to us litle guys, BUT, what if the money went toward all that outstanding debt? The lenders would still have gotten the money!!! They would still be enticed to open up the purse strings, make new loans, make new investments, etc.!! It would have had the exact same effect, except it would have been immediate, and us little guys would have realized an immediate impact from it. Instead, we are all left scratching our heads and wondering where the money got spent? We have the increased national debt to show for it, but we don't have the economic recovery we were promised.

I know, some people don't like handouts. Some of us work very hard, and we despise people that would take advantage of the system, and are already on government subsidies. Well, according to THIS Wiki write up, there are 40 million people on Welfare receiving approximately $360B. That averages to $90k per person? In reality most of that money ( approx. 2/3rds) goes toward administrative costs, and other programs, but imagine doubling or tripling the payout to Welfare for a year? No extra Adminstrative cost, no added expenses, just pure benefits to the little person!! Say we double what we pay out? It only costs approximately $120B extra to double the benefit. Therefore, lets say we Quadruple the payout!! Now those on welfare would be getting 4 times the amount they currently get, but we only used $500B of the bailout.

That still leaves $1.5 Trillion dollars to go to the working poor families!!

That is still $5769 to be paid out per man, woman, child, and infant that isn't already on welfare!!
OR, that is still $416,000 per "working poor" family.
OR, that is still $24,000 per family of 4!!

OK, so lets say we QUADRUPLE welfare benefits. AND, we pay off / forgive all Student Loans in the Country, AND we give every "working poor" family a nice $100,000 one-time gift to get them on their feet.

What would be the cost?

Well, the answer is that we could
(1) Quadruple welfare benefits for the year,
(2) forgive all Student Loan debt,
(3) give every working family that falls below the poverty line a $100,000 gift,
and still be left with enough of the $2 trillion dollars to paydown the National Consumer debt by 20%

Does anybody think those steps would have helped the "recovery" a little more directly, and had lasting benefits to the populace? And stimulated production and consumer lending? And saved the Democrats their elections? And, restored some faith in the government decision making?

What am I missing here? I am no economist, but I can use excel and read some research papers in 1 afternoon, and I can get some exciting numbers. What were the real economists looking at?

edit on 5-11-2010 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-11-2010 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

either were all screwed or there will have to be a collapse to bring about another type of currency. the world cant have all the debt together, who gets the money that is repaid?? nearly every country in billions of debt, too whom??

The problem is, once you give away all the dough and do nothing to fix the systemic cesspool in which we operate, those funds will flow up the river and into the wallets of the relative few that own most of the US.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day . . . teach him how to fish and . . . well you know how that goes. So, if you simply give a bunch of people a bunch of dough, the economic hunger pangs are sated for the short-term. If you fix the system (or at least let it naturally evolve without interference), you'll be so much better down the road.

The problem is the system is rotten to the core. The banking cartels, central banks, international trade and governments are the problem.

If you pump $2 trillion into the economy, regardless of who it is and your intentions, eventually the money will be robbed from us.

Like most systems, it will return to it's equilibrium, ie the people getting screwed.

Use the $2 trillion to overhaul the world's economy, removing the central banks, IMF, WB, and paying for the upheaval it will cause.

If there is any loose change build a one way rocket to Mars, capable of holding the elite and send them all away!

reply to post by GoalPoster


I agree the system is extremely flawed, the work ethic is gone, and corruption is rampant. I also agree that just giving away money is a bad investment. BUT, that is exactly what the government did anyway! So, if that is their plan, I would at least like to see the money steered to the right people and not just hoarded away by the few!

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Well, the answer is that we could
(1) Quadruple welfare benefits for the year,
(2) forgive all Student Loan debt,
(3) give every working family that falls below the poverty line a $100,000 gift,
and still be left with enough of the $2 trillion dollars to paydown the National Consumer debt by 20%

If you were in charge of the recovery, I'd vote for ya mate (oh but look we didn't!). This hats to be better than rewarding the Banks for peeing our money away, bailing out businesses that should have know better, and manipulating the currency markets with quantitative easing.

Screw the banks.......pardon my vulgarity but I hate them.

Star
Flag
Bump
Other than that I am not sure I have much to add.

reply to post by Curiousisall


Thanks for the bump anyhow!

I would really like to hear the opposing side of this argument, because surely along the way some advisor said, why give it the banks? And surely somebody had to have made a coherent argument as to why it was better to put the money in at the top, instead of the bottom?

If I were in that room (and I have been in some discussions where I was the lowest guy on the totem pole) I would have at least asked the question! Somebody in those high level strategy meetings had to have posed this very argument, and some other argument won out?

Didn't they?

Or is it so well accepted and ingrained that everyone at that level already knows that the money goes to the political allies and campaign supporters?

"""Well there is $829B in total Student Loan debt that is strapping the next generation of college attendees. These are the future of our country in Engineering, Medicine, Accounting, and even Politics! Anybody think it would stimulate the economy if we forgave all that debt???"""

A year or so ago the Federal Department of Education submitted a proposal on Fedbizops.gov as they were looking for someone to sell them lots of shotguns. Why would the Department of Education need shotguns??

To collect the Student Loan funds. It's coming, otherwise they would not have bought them. Our Federal Government is getting insufficient revenue to fund it's global operations. The Bankruptcy laws changing in 2002 so you can't wipe away all your debt, then the silly amounts of credit to everyone...Congress even forced the banks to give mortgages to illegal immigrants in 2005.....all to generate revenue...at all costs.

$2 Trillion is about what we will run off of the Printing Press this year alone to fund our Federal Government. The only solution to our economic situation is for Barrack to print out $100 Trillion and throw it out....or we end Social Security tomorrow...both are politically bad.

Bumping my old thread since Biden seems to be ready for him and Obama to take some responsibility for this ridiculous economic fiasco.

Check out this Biden comment.

I like the way you're thinking. I would add in addition to forgiving student debt provide more free ride scholarships to kids who otherwise could not afford it. I'm paying $300 a month in student loans. When I'm done I'll probably be saving $300 a month for my kids to go to college.

reply to post by jjkenobi


That is a GREAT suggestion!

In addition to forgiving some Student Loan debt, how about preparing legislation for future generations to not incur the debt in the first place?

Maybe all the DOE money could go to Federal collegiate institutions and let the states handle the primary education? That could be a start.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Sounds like exactly what needs to happen if you asked me, but more importantly then anything, we need a brand new industry...something to propel us from the industrial age to the literal space age so people can get over this manotnity...

reply to post by agentofchaos


If this recession/depression had been allowed to run its course, that is exactly what we would have gotten!!

When GM would have gone belly up, 1000s of innovative and experienced workers would have hit the streets and poured their energy and innovation into retooling existing businesses or starting up new businesses!

Necessity is the mother of innovation.

The Bail Out stifled the growth we would be starting to enjoy right now. It seems our current government and corporate oligarchy wants to keep the status quo instead of allowing the next jump in technology, communication, and innovation. They are afraid of the things they cannot control.

Bumping this thread in light of the debate over the OWS folks.

This thread shows many of the common misconceptions of OWS. In my opinion we should support them if for no other reason than solidarity against the overbearing government and corporatists.

I am a Tea Partier, but I support OWS 100% even though I don't support all of their solutions, I support their cause.

Bumping this old thread in light of a reply in This New Thread.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Debt...debt...what debt..? That money never excisted in the first place..

Good thinking tho...

reply to post by zatara


I would like to bump this thread, given the other threads that are out there discussing doom and gloom. Also the OWS folks are really ramping up their efforts and it is important to see the opportunity cost the government forewent when it decided how to do an impotent bail out.

reply to post by memarf1


Thanks!

While we're on the subject....... here's a little exercise in visualizing a TRILLION DOLLARS!!

And keep in mind, the government spent DOUBLE this amount, and has nothing to show for it.