When in evolution did the soul choose human housing?

The soul as an idea comes from hindu philosophy. It is possible earlier religions had ideas about a soul but hinduism first wrote a lot on it. My view somewhat inspired by hinduism is that there is mind, body and soul, the mind is something nonphysical and interprets the information it receives via the physical body and the soul is something neither physical nor nonphysical, where it all ends up in. At death of the physical body the information stream ends and the mind has formed an I which returns back into the soul, ideally speaking ofcourse.

The soul is eternal, the human body is not, meaning that before the soul choses to enter a human body he knows already the outcome and future of that body.

That's call free will, just as the human mind understand free will so the soul.

Now as for the monkey link well already somebody answer that one, common misconception brewed by religious believers to twist the whole issue of evolution.

ok, so, if the soul is eternal, what is it doing while waiting for humans toa ppear?

reply to post by ewokdisco


Well obviously your nit going to get an answer, because nobody knows for sure. So its a matter, of personal belief. You should ask yourself this question and find an answer that best suits you personaly. If you believe in reincarnation. Then your soul was in another sentient life form else where in the universe. If you believe in heaven and hell, then your souls is within you from birth. Regardless of what life form you are, and at what stage of evolution. If your a non believer, then you dont accept the idea of a soul and so the question is redundant.

Just look inside yourself and see what you think.

hmm perhaps we have no soul or our bodies are a form of computer to house the soul. this goes along with The Physics of Immortality. some say our brains are an advanced communication system to talk to out minds [soul]. so perhaps, 'we' watch and wait for a species to evolve worthy of housing us?

cheers for he replies.

reply to post by ewokdisco


Or maybe we have the power to create the vessel that will carry our souls, by DNA manipulation. Theres been speculation fron scientists that you may be able to effect your own DNA through the power of thoughts and emotions alone. ei if you see the world as scarey, violent and depressing. Your DNA will begin to make you more allert, paranoid and prone to depression, as well as making you look like someone with the weight of the world on your shoulders.

Maybe its all just a case of human beings putting the cart before the horse? What if the truth is that we are physically creating our ultimate selves from instant to instant with every bit of consciousness that is generated by our brains? All those bursts of consciousness gathering and permanently associating with one another - uniting where they are the same and delineating where they have uniqueness - and forming a unique collective Identity that will be the final inimitable version of each of us when we leave our bodies in the end. Maybe this "soul" describes what we're in the process of crafting?

Meanwhile, the corporeal human can only experience each actual burst generation as the brain creates them, with each burst replaced in the moment by the next burst, and all bursts "disappearing" into the past (as far as the corporeal brain is concerned). Of course, they aren't really disappearing at all. They're gathering, like cells in a corporeal body that is always there and collecting each burst of consciousness that we generate with our busy brains.

But because we can only experience each fresh burst, due to the nature of our corporeal brains and the fact of each burst being physically associated with that brain only as it's being generated, the immediate bursts of consciousness become the "reality" that all corporeal human beings can see as real - even as they have no capacity to perceive each burst's replacement by the next burst. Like the single frames of a strip of film passing before the projector lightbulb, the whole thing simply runs from moment to moment and appears seamless to the person watching that film on a screen.

Now, if you were a person that didn't even have a basic understanding of electric current, and everything had a sense of mystery and magic to it, how the hell would you explain this seamless experience of awareness and sense of self? You might invent your own version of the soul. One thing is for sure. If you were a person who was raised to work and to look to other people for guidance concerning this sort of thing, and they told you that the sense of self you have is due to a thing called a soul, you'd accept it and go back to work.

As to why the 21st century modern society person insists on allowing people from 4,000 years ago to define reality for them; I have no idea. To me that sort of thinking makes no sense at all.

reply to post by ewokdisco


Well if we accept we have a soul, I'm not sure we do. I know a lot of early Christians didn't believe a person has a soul. If it has a soul maybe life energy goes into the body and your experiences shape the life energy into what you would call a soul.

There's really no way to answer the question without first knowing, if a soul exists, and if it exists what is it? What is it made of? How does it get attached to a human body? Does it have our memories or is it just energy? Who knows. I know when you die the energy in your body goes free, but does that energy contain your conscious memories or is it just heat and electricity? Who knows.

The Bible starts off by saying God gave people the breath of life, but that's not a soul. That's just life energy. When you're dead, you're dead and you don't have the breathe of life anymore. Over time modern Christians started to assimilate the idea of a soul from other religions actually so the Bible won't help us much and we'd have to refer to other religions which I don't know much about. Even Jesus basically said, when you're dead you're dead.

In my opinion, the idea of a soul was invented to explain ghost sightings. Thinking the ghost is the spirit of a dead human being. But I don't believe that and I don't believe in a soul.

Look at people that have near death experiences. The first thing they do is they want to get on TV, write books, and tell the whole world there's an afterlife! that Heaven really exists!

But ghosts don't act like this. They act completely different than a human would. They want to scare you or hurt you and have no interest in communicating with us what the afterlife is like even though we know they are capable of communicating.

I can't believe that when a human is alive the most important thing on their mind is if there is an afterlife, but as soon as they die they say, well it's not important if anyone else knows. I'll just knock these books off this shelf while everyone is sleeping and scare them! This is why I believe ghosts are in fact not the spirit of a dead human and maybe just a form of residual energy that really has no conscious and I don't really think humans have souls. That we are what we are and that's all we are.

Jesus said he would come back and raise the dead and THEN give us a spiritual body, but as of yet, according to the Bible at least, we're not a spiritual body. We're just a body and the dead know nothing. Completely unconscious of everything. That's what the Bible actually says, but it's like nobody pays any attention to that and just skip right over it and they say I HAVE A SOUL! But that's not what Christianity says. That idea comes from other various religions which you'd have to ask someone that believed in those religions and go from there cause I don't know much about those.

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

Why do people put "2nd" after what they say?

Because single-line posts are, we think, automatically rejected. Op has an interesting question. Of course evolutionists and atheists will reject it, but I doubt the question was for them. I also get a kick out of these posts that point out, in an oh, so pedantic manner, that humans did not come 'From" monkeys and that we are from a parallel evolutionary line.

Of course we are, but if you looked at the most remote human ancestor, you'd very likely call it a monkey-like creature. I mean, surely you would not be able to easily make a distinction. It might be a strange looking monkey, but nonetheless, at least a generic monkey.

As to the answer to the OP's question. Good question. Don't know.

reply to post by ewokdisco


Hmmm.

Reincarnation philosophies describe the soul's evolution, understood to be a linear path to enlightenment, and becoming "superior."

The scientific concept of physical evolution describes body changes, understood to be "superior" only in the context of very specific environments.

...Some (most?) people who believe in reincarnation also believe that humans are higher on the scale of enlightenment than say cats or pigs - but dolphins may be higher than humans.

As I understand it, it's all in question. ...Except for the butterfly bit.

..."a soul" is a concept created by humans, just like time...

...having "soul" is another matter entirely, one that i can actually see, hear, feel - but - when ya get down to the nut cuttin, its still just a human concept / perspective...

Originally posted by marg6043
The soul is eternal, the human body is not, meaning that before the soul choses to enter a human body he knows already the outcome and future of that body.

That's call free will, just as the human mind understand free will so the soul...

If this is true then the soul would know if the body they are entering is going to hell at the end of it all.

Why would they choose to go to hell?

On the other hand if the soul didn't know what it's outcome would be why would it take the risk of going to hell?

If it is a choice for the soul, what would motivate it to choose to come to earth in the first place, is it better here? If it's better here then is heaven not real? Is it to experience physical life? Seems like a big risk just to experience physical life that really is not that great for a lot of people.

The soul is either really stupid, does not have free-will, or just doesn't exist and was just one of early mans attempts to explain the unknown. Or maybe hell doesn't exist, or the earth is hell.

I think we might first ask, "What is consciousness?" Even science can't answer that question.

Once we know that answer, then we can move on to more esoteric concepts, IMO.

I personally believe the soul exists...otherwise if we were left with our instinctual impulses we would have destroyed ourselves by now. A soul is probably given a choice to incarnate in a human body. Regardless how new or old the soul may be. Given the theory of reincarnation, a soul could have millenniums of reincarnations on earth or maybe just a single incarnation. Why would soul want to incarnate in a human body? Maybe its for the experience, I mean the world we live in is truly unique regardless of its imperfections.

I mean if evolution occurs on physical level...why can't it occur in non-physical level, such as the soul? How do most individuals reach maturity? By living our lives and through experiences over time. A soul probably has to go through the process of maturity, an option is most likely in the human body.

Now why would soul want to incarnate in a human body? Especially when a human body is physical vessel and a soul is non-physical. If the soul is the truly what you are and eternal. Then wouldn't it get boring after awhile floating around in eternity as non-physical being? And what is a lifespan of a human body experience compared to the eternal existence of a soul? It's like a blink of an eye! Remember, time is reference which we have clung fiercely to in our limited human minds. Logically the method for your soul to learn and experience rapidly in such short time would have to be something beyond the non-physical existence. It would be a physical experience such as a human body.

Then it makes me wonder...do all humans have souls?

reply to post by KrypticCriminal


2nd liner so you dont get mod edit for 1 line response friend
2nd

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


You don't need to worry about having a single line response if that single line provides a thought addition to the discourse.

Originally posted by Horishi
I personally believe the soul exists...otherwise if we were left with our instinctual impulses we would have destroyed ourselves by now.

What makes you think that? If we were living, as the other animals do, by our instinctual impulses then we would find our natural place in the order and live according to nature. No other animals destroy themselves so I see no reason we would. What makes us seem to act in destructive ways to each other is the system we are forced to live in created by man to exploit man, this is not natural and IS destructive to ourselves because of that.

A soul is probably given a choice to incarnate in a human body. Regardless how new or old the soul may be. Given the theory of reincarnation, a soul could have millenniums of reincarnations on earth or maybe just a single incarnation. Why would soul want to incarnate in a human body? Maybe its for the experience, I mean the world we live in is truly unique regardless of its imperfections.

Yes it's unique but if it exists hell would be also but would a soul choose to go there because it's unique?

What is it we have on Earth they don't have in heaven, I mean according to the OP you can have all the material sins you want in heaven with no repercussions.

I see no reason a soul would choose to come to Earth.

I mean if evolution occurs on physical level...why can't it occur in non-physical level, such as the soul? How do most individuals reach maturity? By living our lives and through experiences over time. A soul probably has to go through the process of maturity, an option is most likely in the human body.

This is true and I think if the soul does exist it is born with the body, if it reincarnates it does so without going to another place first. So the soul doesn't know anything other than physical life, and doesn't know its past lives, until it finally does go to the other side.

Then wouldn't it get boring after awhile floating around in eternity as non-physical being?

[Not according to the OP lol. If it was boring then why do we spend a physical life trying to get back there?]

Edit; oops never mind I was thinking about another post with that comment.

I thought heaven was total bliss? Boredom is a Human experience.

And what is a lifespan of a human body experience compared to the eternal existence of a soul? It's like a blink of an eye! Remember, time is reference which we have clung fiercely to in our limited human minds. Logically the method for your soul to learn and experience rapidly in such short time would have to be something beyond the non-physical existence. It would be a physical experience such as a human body.

Then it makes me wonder...do all humans have souls?

I don't see what it is we're supposed to learn that can't be learned in the after life, unless the after life is harder than physical life and we have to be prepared. If heaven is heaven then what happened on Earth would stay on Earth (lol), and wouldn't make any difference.

Is it a test? If that's the case then again the soul would not be choosing, otherwise you would choose the easy path. If it is a test then the soul is either born with the body and doesn't have a choice, or comes from somewhere other than heaven in order for it to have motivation to go through physical life to get to heaven.

Just my opinions of course.

reply to post by Wally Hope


We can blame the inherently broken system all we want. However it's up to us to decide what we do with our lives. Brainwashing and distractions aside, as a human race we've lived in fear since the dawn of man. We've battled for survival, food and domination. We are nothing like animals, human instincts far different from animals. As they are more in tune with nature. Modern humans are not for the most part, except for indigenous cultures...I'm not saying there isn't hope for the human race. We are different on some level than can be dangerous if not kept in check.

I honestly don't believe there is a hell, something more like the religions invented to scare the bejeezus out of people. But that's something I won't go in-dept with. And there it is again the factor of fear that is plagued human kind. Maybe a soul choose to incarnate on earth the fact its a challenge. I mean with all the distractions and modern conveniences we have people suffering and unhappy. What if a soul lived in a Utopian realm that has never experienced suffering? How is one suppose to advanced if one has never hit rock bottom? lol

I get your point earth is boredom, but think about the constant bliss the soul feels feels on the otherside. Why not live a brief moment as a human on earth? If earth has ~6.6 billion people, and considering the vastness of our universe...the number of physical humans is logically a pale comparison to the number souls that could be out there. If that's true, lets say the "minority" of these souls decide to incarnate in human form the experience. And when they come back to other side they can share their "cool" human experience with the rest.

Earth is what earth is, and heaven is what heaven is...when you look at it. It's a matter of perspective, life is a experience in whatever form and what you take out of it. A soul may find more value in incarnating in human form. I mean have you seen the crazy stuff on the news? Earth has a plethora of good, bad and insane experiences. If you want a contrasting vast array of experiences I would say human form on earth is where it's at. And if it was a test, considering earth wouldn't be the easy path. Which road would you get more rewards and lessons to be learned from? The easy path or the difficult one? I agree with you that human incarnation could be stepping stone to something else. We just don't know much about it...yet

A caterpillar's life is hard. It can barely move; it gets to watch all its friends being eaten by birds and stepped on; it has a hard time finding food.

At some point it gets super depressed and says "Eff it, I'm just going to shut myself off from the world, enough of this crap."

Sits there, in solitude and sadness in its cocoon, until it finally hits rock bottom, at which point it realizes it actually has potential if it would accept itself and the world for what it is.

I wonder if behind every little butterfly is an exciting past of personal drama of such a sort.

Like a previous poster said, either everything is conscious or nothing is.

After years of research on all kinds of stuff (earth's history, paranormal, metaphysical, etc) I've come to understand these things. Here's my 2cents, we all have different viewpoints:

--Humans are not from Earth, we're from elsewhere in the galaxy. We were brought here. We also lived on Mars not so long ago.

--We were genetically engineered many hundreds of thousands of years ago (let's not debate the actual number of years, because really, no one knows) by a 4D race called the Annunaki.

--2 Brothers "created" us--gen. engineered us--from what I understand they were called Enlil and Enki, to have a limited frequency and memory so we would not remember our true history or where our souls come from, so that they could have great control over us. We live in amneisia.

--Evolution does not involve the "human" as we know it. There was a jump from Neanderthal to Human, this was the genetic engineering by the Annunaki. As far as "when" the soul started to use a human vessel, I'm not really sure when there was a specific point at which that happened, as it would be back at the beginning of the Galaxy...probably many trillions of years before that even. Your guess is as good as mine.

--I agree with an earlier post, that anything living has a soul or energy force. I believe we get our consciousness from off planet, and elsewhere in the galaxy/universe. The 12th chakra in our chakra system is based far out in the universe. It helps guide us as we go through this limited frequency life of ours.