Churchers...are you are so indoctrinated, you can't even count to six?

reply to post by Rustami
Rustami,

You must know also Jesus said, KJV. verses

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What you posted has nothing to do with regard to coming to his throne of grace on His holy day. You forgot Paul also made it clear,

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

It's the Seventh day never to be removed, Notice "remaineth", when Paul was yet living.

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it

Those Words will stand throughout eternity.

I posted the verses because I didn't expect any to believe me, for I'm no body. We never are to believe what man says, we are to go to His Word to make sure the thing is true.

Truthiron.

reply to post by truthiron


God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high-Hebrews1

And the second IS LIKE unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.-Matt22

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment..-1John3

But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years.-Galatians4

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.-Isaiah1.13

Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?-Isaiah58.4

"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.-John5.45

But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin-Romans14

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.-PSALM90

And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.-Revelation

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator-Galatians3

For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son-Hebrews1

But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.-Gal4

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.-2Corinthains

for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?-1Corinthinas

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.-Romans8

It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.

reply to post by Rustami
Rustami,

Then prove you love Him and keep His Commandments for they are not grevious and you are totally free within His will if you truly love him and your fellow man. You prove you don't have the love you speak of if you don't.

For myself I am a free man in Jesus, Yahshua as I'm not gaulded in any way by the law, it is in my heart and my hearts desire. Jn. 14:15, He states, "If you love me keep my commandments" He says what He means and means what He says. And yes sincerely, I Love Him.

Truthiron.

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by Rustami

 

Rustami,

Then prove you love Him and keep His Commandments for they are not grevious and you are totally free within His will if you truly love him and your fellow man. You prove you don't have the love you speak of if you don't.

For myself I am a free man in Jesus, Yahshua as I'm not gaulded in any way by the law, it is in my heart and my hearts desire. Jn. 14:15, He states, "If you love me keep my commandments" He says what He means and means what He says. And yes sincerely, I Love Him.

ok think what you want but never said anything personally one way or the other about you or me, nor gave any personal interpertation, just posting relative or what I think are interesting scriptures that comes to mind from what I've read and read alot I have, would'nt you if you heard what I did?

And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law

reply to post by shoulda taken the blue pi


The Sabbath was consecrated as a day of REST. God told people to stay in their homes on the Sabbath. Christians gather together in a certain location for fellowship, praise and worship on Sunday because it was the day of the week Jesus rose from the grave.

reply to post by againuntodust

Seventh day adventists, however, hold church service on Saturdays to honor the Sabbath.

How can the SDA church pastors keep from breaking the Sabbath?????

reply to post by shoulda taken the blue pi

Until heaven and earth pass away, not one part of the law will

GROOOOOOOSSSSS mis-translation, what an enormous straw man. Remember:

"Something taken out of context is a PRETEXT."

What Jesus actually said:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Matt. 5:17-19


Are you saying Jesus was a failure in His mission to fulfill? He never said the law would never pass, He said it would never pass UNTIL it be fulfilled, and He came to fulfill it.

reply to post by adjensen


please furnish some evidence for your claim that sunset > midnight = 1 night & midnight > sunrise = a second night

reply to post by ignorant_ape
That is how the Hebrews counted their days before 70 AD. John was the only apostle to survive 70 AD, and he wrote in the Roman custom of the land of 24 hour days. Jews break the day into two 12 hour periods, Day and Night.

reply to post by NOTurTypical
NOTurThpical,

When He, Jesus said "I came to fulfil" that meant "satisfy", "verify" or "coincide with". Don't you understand he was the author of the Royal Law? He was the law in a body, the law, love is what He is. If we too really have love we too love the law of love, that is a transcript of Him.

Truthiron.

reply to post by truthiron


No. "to fulfil" in Matthew 5:17 is "plēroō in the Greek, a verb. According to Strong's Concordance it means:

1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full

a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally

1) I abound, I am liberally supplied

2) to render full, i.e. to complete

a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim

b) to consummate: a number

1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect

2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)

c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise

1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute

2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish

3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Strong's Concordance


English is a VERY lazy language however, Greek is extremely precise.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


i know that - but please read it again - thats NOT what the poster i am replying to claims

he is attempting to spoon TWO " nights " into the period between a SINGLE sunset and sun rise

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by againuntodust

 

Seventh day adventists, however, hold church service on Saturdays to honor the Sabbath.

How can the SDA church pastors keep from breaking the Sabbath?????

I'm sorry, I don't understand your position and question.

Originally posted by againuntodust

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by againuntodust

 

Seventh day adventists, however, hold church service on Saturdays to honor the Sabbath.

How can the SDA church pastors keep from breaking the Sabbath?????

I'm sorry, I don't understand your position and question.

God commanded the Sabbath to be a day of rest, and forbade working on that day.

A pastor is at "work" when pastoring his church.

reply to post by NOTurTypical
NOTurTypecal,

You seem to be bent on making out Jesus Abolished His own law of love and no the word used there don't mean that. The following is the comple definition,

from 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

I sure won't run with you that He abolished but just the oposite, He proved it could be kept in every respect because as a man He did it taking no power but that each of us can have and you want to deny that.

That law is right there in the "Ark of His Testament". Rev. 11:19 No one can remove it.

Satan is now a defeated foe when we will have Christ dwelling in us and has no power over us. He gave us the Way to have the Victory. The heart of True love keeps the law without even knowing what it is and so it no longer is a schoolmaster as when He is in us, He is that Love.

That is the way the Way made for us to overcome and be one of His.

Truthiron.

reply to post by truthiron


Who said anything about "abolishing His law of love"? And what do you mean 'The following is the comple definition,'?? I copy/pasted all the definitions from Strong's Concordance for the word.


When Christ spoke those words the first covenant was still in effect. At the time He said this, His death on the cross and the end of the first covenant was still future.

Christ didn't initiate the new covenant until the last supper in the upper room. be that as it may, Christ was still stating His reason for coming.. to fulfil the law and in the process complete the first covenant of the law, so that a better covenant of grace could be realized. Jeremiah 31 prophesied this.

Secondly, we're arguing a MOOT POINT to begin with. The Sabbath was ordered to be a day of rest, and people were told to "stay inside their homes." ANYONE who leaves their home, gets in their car, and drives to church for worship is breaking the Sabbath.

Thank God I'm under the new covenant of grace and not the old covenant of works.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by againuntodust

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by againuntodust

 

Seventh day adventists, however, hold church service on Saturdays to honor the Sabbath.

How can the SDA church pastors keep from breaking the Sabbath?????

I'm sorry, I don't understand your position and question.

God commanded the Sabbath to be a day of rest, and forbade working on that day.

A pastor is at "work" when pastoring his church.

Oh, I don't know. I'm not well-versed in their beliefs. They probably justify it by saying its Mosaic law and does not apply, or, by saying Jesus did good works on the Sabbath and that its OK to do good.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

i know that - but please read it again - thats NOT what the poster i am replying to claims

he is attempting to spoon TWO " nights " into the period between a SINGLE sunset and sun rise

Hello, IA, been a while, hope that you're well.

I haven't found the original source, sorry, though plenty that say Jews believe that any part of a day is a "day", but as I wrote it is how I remember the argument going. If you spend five minutes with google, you'll get plenty of rationales for the response, but none of them are my original source (not on page 1 of results, anyway :-)

However, and this is what aggravates me about these sorts of things, and prevents me wasting my time digging up sources, who cares? All four Gospels clearly state that the tomb was found empty on Sunday. Logically, this makes sense, as well -- Jesus' entombment was a "hurry up job" before the Sabbath, and the women would have wanted to get out there as soon as possible once the Sabbath was over to take care of things properly. Given the likelihood that this happened in 1/7 instances, it was probably common.

So, we have a statement by Christ, and testimony in four places that seems to contradict it. Given that the authors of the Gospels and the early Church fathers were better informed than you and I, the most rational explanation is that they DIDN'T see an inconsistency, due to some cultural aspect that no longer makes sense to us, or it would have been addressed.

And, in the end, this is a nothing. A shallow point of argument for someone desperate to hang some logical fallacy on people that they disagree with, regardless of its impact on the true message of the Bible. If one's faith is swayed by such a irrelevant point, one has to question one's faith in the first place.

I take offense to the title of the thread and the intellectual belittlement that it implies, but I've come to expect nothing less from some of the "quality" posters on ATS.

reply to post by NOTurTypical
NOTurTypical,

It is true some made a burden of the Holy Sabbath day by making rules that were not ordained. I could come up with many verses that show they didn't stay in their homes on the Sabbath even in the old testament. I will post 2.

2Ch 23:4 This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you entering on the sabbath, of the priests and of the Levites, shall be porters of the doors;
Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

The gate was to be open on the Sabbath that people could come in.

On the first and second covenants the first was a shadow of the new or second, the first pointed to the True that would fulfil the promese of redemption. The shedding of the True Lamb of God which only could suffice.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

We have the law of Love in our hearts, it has two parts defined in the ten commandments, the first part is the first 4 commandments defines our Love for God, Yahweh, The second part our Love for man defined in the last 6 of the 10 commandments..

With Love, Christ in our hearts we are totally free in abiding within them all. This is what it means to be a free man or woman in Christ. We have no desire for any thing outside of that law.

Ps 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Truthiron.

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

NOTurTypical,

It is true some made a burden of the Holy Sabbath day by making rules that were not ordained. I could come up with many verses that show they didn't stay in their homes on the Sabbath even in the old testament. I will post 2.

What they did was irrelevant. the OT is LITTERED with examples of the people going against the commands of God. God commanded the people to stay in their homes. Did God command the Sabbath as a day of "worship" or a day of "rest"? I am under the impression we are to worship God every day of the week, not just one.

2Ch 23:4 This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you entering on the sabbath, of the priests and of the Levites, shall be porters of the doors;

The Hebrews were commanded to come to the temple on three specific feasts, all males over the age of 20 were commanded to appear at the temple at these 3 feasts. Not every Sabbath.

Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

The gate was to be open on the Sabbath that people could come in.

First of all, Ezekiel 46 is discussing the millennial period when Christ will be ruling and reigning in the temple. It is talking about when the "prince" will be worshiped at the temple. The dispensation of grace will be over at this point in time. Secondly, this passage is describing also a "feast" Sabbath if you read down to verse 9:

"But when the people of the land shall come before the LORD in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it."

(Notice God is talking about the outer gates, not the inner gate in this verse.)

We have the law of Love in our hearts, it has two parts defined in the ten commandments, the first part is the first 4 commandments defines our Love for God, Yahweh, The second part our Love for man defined in the last 6 of the 10 commandments..

Interesting you only name YHWH as "God", so is the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Secondly, Christ only gave 2 commandments for the New Covenant that began at the last supper.

1. Love God
2. Love people

If a person leaves their house on the Sabbath under the Old Covenant, and it wasn't one of God's appointed 3 feasts where all males over 20 were commanded to come to the temple, that person would be violating the Sabbath:

"See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."

Exodus 16:29