What's the definition of life?

reply to post by xiphias


That is my question though, what is "living?"

The search for the truth works, sure, but dolphins are intelligent and they do not search for the truth. Just because they are not worried about space travel does that make them any less intelligent?

Intelligence is not life, that's my question what is life?

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by xiphias

 

That is my question though, what is "living?"

The search for the truth works, sure, but dolphins are intelligent and they do not search for the truth. Just because they are not worried about space travel does that make them any less intelligent?

Intelligence is not life, that's my question what is life?

Pred...

The "search for truth" isn't a literal search as an intelligent species would define it, as in reading books or scientific experimentation.

If a dolphin could read language or add numbers, the dolphin would become a philosopher. In that sense, every non-intelligent species acts as a philosopher. That's how I look at it anyway.

Philosophy isn't the search for God, it's actually the search for balance. Every species strives for balance (as in: balancing the equation), and this is living.

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by oozyism

 

Yeah, a tad deeper.

We consider life on our time scale, but yet all of humanity is just a blink in the life of the universe.

Would you consider a rock to be alive?

Pred...

Well in that case I believe every system which exists is alive, a rock is a system?

Every system within the universe is alive, including the planet, the milky way, the galaxy, the atoms, the electrons, etc etc.

They are alive, they have their own time frame. They live their own life style.

What do we do which they can't? We can consciously manipulate them, and use them for our own interests. Then again in their own time frame, we can't comprehend whether they are conscious, they also have the ability to manipulate us, to use us for their own interests. Our time frame is extremely small, we need millions of years of history and scientific record in order to fully understand our surroundings, we only have couple of thousand years of history.

Are they conscious? Do they have to be conscious in order for them to be considered alive? Does it mean anything if they don't know whether they are alive or not?

Very interesting topic.

Made me think.

oz

reply to post by xiphias


star and flag you summed up exactly what I have been thinking. i think the recognition awareness of the condition we live in is a first step towards freedom, enlightenment, awakening, whatever term you want to call it.
but my question is how do we escape the cycle?
what is the ultimate truth? 42
and what else is there?
those are my questions, and I am not looking for answers that have "blind faith" attached to it. the truth the whole truth however wonderful, fantastic or gross that truth may be.

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by xiphias

 

That is my question though, what is "living?"


Intelligence is not life, that's my question what is life?

This is the Ultimate Question.
And the Answer is.................


There is no such thing as Life.
It doesnt exist, has never existed,and will never exist.

You are not alive.
You are the Ghost in the Machine.

Anything else you would like to know?

Life is the confusing noisy bit in-between being born and dying a few decades later.
or to quote John Lennon, Life it what happens while you are making other plans

reply to post by oozyism

Are they conscious? Do they have to be conscious in order for them to be considered alive? Does it mean anything if they don't know whether they are alive or not?

There we go!!

Good questions! I personally think it doesn't matter if they are conscious. And whose to say that we are the only kind of consciousness?

I love this topic because I think it is literally never-ending.

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187


If it doesn't matter whether they are conscious or not, then that means everything is alive.

Although in some instances of my thinking I believe everything is conscious, as I relate a human being to a country. Hence the construct of a human being is cells. The contruct of a country is human beings.

Maybe, just maybe, cells are also conscious? The higher consciousness of cells is a human being. Then there is a country/nation which is created from human beings, call it evolutions , anyways, human beings are obviously conscious, nations are the higher consciousness of human beings.

That is just a fraction of my thought in regards to this subject, for some reason I'm fascinated by consciousness, and what it is

the most basic function of life is communication.

therefore, in terms of the OSI model, life is the end user of any system of communication or information processing circuit.

IMO the answer would be my ATS name, Life Is Energy. It is movement, for without movement nothing can grow, reproduce, more or less become aware (conscious/intelligent). If there is no movement there is no possibility for observational existence, therefore everything we see, touch, hear, smell, and think must be moving. It must be 'energy', or be codependent, with 'energy'.

But ultimately, as you've said, we must have an absolute understanding of what life is in order to define it, and being that the word 'life' can be understood and spoke about in many ways, this is a near impossible thing accomplish.

Great thread though.
S&F

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Thanks buddy!!

I think your pretty close with energy.

Everything is energy, literally everything, and everything is also vibrations, all the way down to the Planck length. That's what they think everything is made out of is tiny vibrating strings.

Awesome interpretation of the question.

Pred...

reply to post by oozyism


Consciouness is another one of those topics which really I could never stop thinking about.

We are just a conglomeration of tiny creatures and cells, and somehow we have consciousness. Is it us that has it or is it the things that make us that holds this key?

I would die to know where consciousness comes from.

Pred...

Things with a nervous system
Things with brains
Things with DNA
Things that born, live and die

I guess we all know what life is, this is just wordplay

Originally posted by Tryptych
Things with a nervous system
Things with brains
Things with DNA
Things that born, live and die

I guess we all know what life is, this is just wordplay

There are many adaptations of nervous systems, in many shapes and sizes.

Jellyfish have no brains, and also if left in the ocean unobstucted also never die, they also exclude a nervous system.

Life is wordplay, scientists have a hell of a time trying to figure out this question and this is their field of specialty.

Thanks for the response.

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187


Touché..

How about living cells then? You know, everything organic.. with DNA. I think we can pretty safely say that a rock is not conscious in the same way that, let's say, humans or dolphins are (unless of course, we assume that the universe as a whole is somehow conscious). I guess our bodies (and everything physical) are just extensions of this universe. And as that, a part of it. After all, we're made of the same elements as everything here. Strange and a very abstract subject.

Of course we can ball this around..

reply to post by RRokkyy


Everything has already died. This is the other world.

reply to post by Tryptych


While I agree a rock might not have the same consciousness as humans, who is to say the humans and dolphins have a similar one? Everything could have a different consciousness that we cannot understand at this point, we might learn differently in the future.

As far as mass humanity thinks the rock does not have a consciousness, but at one point it was probably "alive," and it probably will be "alive" at some other point in history, so how do we know that that consciousness ever leaves it in the first place?

We would have to be gaining consciousness from atoms because, well, they make everything up we know. So how could we say other things made up from the same constituents as us could not have the same awareness as we do?

It's a deep question...

Pred...

I think before you can determine what is alive/conscious in external objects, you must first define what makes you "alive". Imagine having your entire memory erased and being sent to a deserted, earth-like planet. No knowledge of language, communication, or prior conditioning, and the only thing that you have at your disposal are your primitive instincts such as pain/pleasure and flight/fight responses. You would live amongst the trees, grass, and rocks and be at one with everything, watching a trees leaves blow in the wind for hours without ever getting bored. The trees bear the fruit that make your unpleasant stomach settle and the rocks outline the stream that quenches your thirst.

For years this goes on until one day you come across a pale hairy figure. It moves like you, it has the same arms as you, and can make the same noises. And then all of a sudden the creature points at you and then himself and says, "We alive". Then he points at the trees and ground that have been the bane of your entire existence until this point and he grunts, "They not alive".

The word "life" is just a sound that emulates a certain grouping of things. All language does is separate "yourself" from "them". The entire time you are talking to someone all your doing is classifying if they are worthy of being befriended and trusted or not. If they will be more of a pleasure instead of a pain.

Your next door neighbor exists just the same as any tree or rock. They could be a figment of your imagination for all you know...there is no way to set way to classify what's alive and what isn't. The only thing we can do obey society and trust the pale, hairy figure that looks like us because they have the most potential to harm us, much like they have the greatest potential to cause us pleasure through sex. Relationships are just constructs of conditioning...in theory I could love a rock just as much as my mother if I was raised to believe that.

And then your going to have another human come up to you and tell you, "Life is classified as an object that reproduces, maintains homeostasis, adapts to environment, whatever the other 2 are, blah, blah" But then they are going to say that all living things are composed of cells:
"But what's a cell?"
A collection of atoms.
"But aren't rocks a collection of atoms as well?"
Yes, but they don't function the same way
"Well plant cells don't function the same way as animal cells, does that mean they aren't alive?"
Well no.
"And a dog doesn't appear to be similar to myself, so does that make him less alive than you?"
....No

Sorry about all that writing. But all I'm trying to get across is the point that humans tend to devalue something that isn't similar to us. We write biased laws in order to protect the wealthy and create a morale code that everyone is supposed to live by. But the sad truth is I have no idea what you are or what this thing in front of me is, or how it works. I just assume that I understand it and that it's correct because that's what I've been conditioned to believe. We ask what the "meaning of life" is but we have no idea what life even is, we just assume we have experienced all there is to experience already. Sorry, I'm going to quit rambling...I don't want to get all into the self-refuting fallacies of these seemingly impossible questions.

Cheers

When I was a child and had an awareness of myself of being "alive" I'd question my mom over and over, "Why am I here?" "Who made all this?" "Where did it all come from?" "Who made the stars?" "What is the reason for me being here?" and the questions went on and on. The only thing she could come up to tell me was not to worry about it, that it was too mind boggling, too much for our minds to fathom but look at it as a wonderful gift and that someday I'd know all the answers (I'm assuming now she meant upon death). I only know what life is by my experience in it. Not a very good answer, I know, and yes, it's too much for me to figure out even now. Really nice thread, it takes me back to that questioning child.

reply to post by Nostradumbass


Thanks for the post and I did not think you were rambling at all.

I think your taking reality into the equation here, which is good. We have been indoctrinated into thinking we are separate from the rest of the earth.

Some people have a hard time figuring out that everything is a cycle on the Earth. Every atom in our body has been here for about 5 billion years, it has been recycled throughout so many times, could have been part of a rock at one point, part of a turtle or someones fecal matter.

Everythings alive, everything is living, even if it may appear to be lifeless, it was living at one point in some form or another and will be again at one point, it still retains that consciousness, it has to.

Reality can be taken into account but I think it is all in our mind. We create it, we create our feelings. We have the ability to interpret our interactions the way we choose. That is why sometimes people can say something the exact same way as they have said it before and we get upset, it is because we are influencing the interpretation.

Reality is another subject along with the definition of life and consciousness that can be thought about a lot.

Thanks everyone for the great discussion.

Pred...