The scary actual U.S. government debt

US debt is a virtual figure, it is more like a paradox - you owe everything in existence plus interest rate. If someone owes you 200 trillion dollars do you seriously think he'll ever return it? Yet, you keep giving him more? You, the US citizens purchase good across the world with money your government created out of thin air - it is only matter of time before there's just too much money and people will stop fighting for it. Then, all you ought to do is make yet another piece of paper, tell people its worth gold and they'll polish your shoes for it, yet again. Although, it much depends on the military.... China doesn't want to be a lapdog forever. Oh well, best is to just keep out of it, away, as far as possible.

We could have a debt of $900 Gazillion and it wouldn't matter.

Our currency is not backed by Gold. It is backed by Uranium and Plutonium.

So it should bother you that Hillary Clinton and Barrack want to reduce our holdings of Uranium and Plutonium.

This will effect the buying power of our currency shortly.

The simple fact of the matter is something that I have been saying for years now:

The U.S. economy will crash when the elite want it to crash -- no sooner, no later.

People keep predicting when the U.S. dollar will crash, when a war will start, and how this can't go on much longer. News Flash: It can go on for another 30 years if they want it to, and they could also end in 2 hours from now. Unless we get off our couches and computer screens and do a 100+ million man march to take everything back, there's little we can do to stop it. They just have way too much influence.

The roughly 13 trillion is a estimate of the "gov" debt while the larger numbers are a reflection of all amercans' debt's both public and private.
I've mentioned on a few other threads what this number is and what it means. It seems to me that this 200 trillion is very overstated. Every reference I've found was between 55 and 75 trillion dollars, though those may have only been accounting for the "national debt" and private debts related to credit, mortgages, and that sort of thing. But I'm not exactly sure, this is one of the only sources I've seen that shows that kind of figure.
Whatever the case, whether america's debt is 55, 75, or 200 trillion, it's pretty much over. There really is no coming back from that within this system because the lower numbers rival the amount of money that actually exists world wide, and the larger number is more than actually exists.
I like threads like this because many ATS members discuss how to fix the economy, who's responsible, who's doing or not doing what, and the simple truth is that this cannot be fixed by conventional means. Until america ditches the central bank and actually starts producing real tangible products, this won't get any better.

Of course there may be other options....

btw: between 20 and 30% of america's GDP is actually interest payments... a little food for thought....

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


You are absolutely correct my friend, here is a small portion of Laurence Kotlikoff paper used to state this.
This is just, suction into the vortex tea partier and republican propaganda. Released just in time for the mid term elections. Laurence Kotlikoff has no real perspective on the economy as a hole, he does not hold any government office. So he simply cannot no what is there, or is not there. This guy is only a theorist and we must take his information as this. Not cold hard facts!!

The paper -- "On the General Relativity of Fiscal Language" (see [3]) -- shows that the deficit is simply an arbitrary figment of language in all economic models involving rational agents. Such models can feature all manner of individual and aggregate uncertainty, incomplete markets, distortionary fiscal policy, asymmetric information, borrowing constraints, time-inconsistent government policy, and a host of other problems, yet "the" deficit will still bear no theoretical connection to real policy-induced economic outcomes. The reason, again, is that there is no single deficit, but rather an infinity of deficit or surplus policy paths that can be announced (by the government or any private agent) simply by choosing the "right" fiscal labels.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Wow.
I am impressed you cited an article from Canada's Capital News Paper as well. It lends it more credibility in my opinion.
Everyone pretty well knows though, a log of government terms are made to sound impressive to desuade the public from learning about it. That's why law is so tough as well. It's simple to say, Killing is bad. Then, killing might be ok if it was proven self defence. However, for some reason it is never written in plain english. They use many words so that it can be twisted over time.

This is why I am not a fan of how big business, including government is run. I believe they can succeed, somewhat, if only it was made more simple and transparent.

As for the debt, that's insanely high but not entirely surprising. I wonder how many other countries find themselves massively in the hole using his accounting method.

reply to post by The only 1 who knows the


Well said and you are telling the truth.
That has value in and of itself.
Good points.

Folks are slowly coming out of their loony-cocoonies.
The best way to enslave another is to keep one ignorant they are enslaved, with debt that is.
The debt was generated via mass fraud and criminal conspiracy so therefor the debt is INVALID.

Instead of merely 'accepting' federal and state debts, Governors and Sheriffs and their 'constituants' need to come together and Demand a thorough and unbiased public audit of the federal reserve, irs, imf, the world bank, bank for international settlements, central banks of the world and other monetary entities. When this is accomplished, the debt will be seen for what it is; 'Null and Void', just as Federal jurisdiction over the 'people', the supposed 'electorate taxpaying citizen' is. The States can resume their independence at their own will and the 'folks' will surely join them. The federal govt. is subject to the 'people' not the other way around. The people apparently had forgotten their 'role' in it all. They are being reminded.

The only 'purpose' of a federal entity is for defense of the nation, not offense.....defense Of.
The States can more efficiently and effectively handle the rest.
States can issue their own silver currencies until they take back their monetary authority from federal crime syndicates.

Eventually, states will come to an agreement on a silver standard federal wide currency of which eventually could be held in reserve for paper notes backed by the a combination of platinum, gold, silver, etc. held in local bullion banks subject to annual audits with/'IOU't permission to lease or loan the precious metal bullion to 'any' entity.

Fractional reserve banking began by fractioning the precious metals held in reserve on notes issued. Now there is 'nothing' to back the reserve note but debt itself. Folks have a 'right' to be paid in a currency or medium of which has value, otherwise they are being paid with debt notes of which they are to repay at another's bidding. It's insane how long this fiat currency fiasco has enslaved the folks though greed and the lust for power are the most alluring of pitfalls.
Neither the poor nor the rich find satisfaction with this end. It is merely a yin awaiting to be yanged. This time the yang is of tsunamic proportions, hence your police state is being carefully contrived for your control and their protection.

It is time to Act on your inalienable rights.
"We have this hope" was once muttered along the astral plane.....
2012 is no excuse to betray one's brethren.
Perhaps the Creator finds it necessary to 'stir the pot' every once in a while in order for 'folks' to 'check' their ways.

~Anything of which stifles the creativity of a creation is defeating it's purpose thereof~.
The 'storms' have just begun.

My sister's favorite for a 'reason' I suppose.....

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Well....Time to pack my bags and move to another country.. lol We are so far in debt there is no fixing it. At least for a LONG time. I wonder if the governemnt is going to just give up.. We are over populated with morons, we are so far in debt, why not nuke us and start over? I really hope they dont think of that. (im not implying we should just implying they could think something like that if all else fails) We are on our way to a third world country if not already.

reply to post by innervision0730


The 'people' could merely take back what is/was their's to begin with.
Imagine what trillions in forfeited federal assets such as land/minerals/infrastructure etc. could do to/for a state and it's population?

I would like to see folks get a new start and allow them to 'be' who they were supposed to be, create as they are suppose to create, live as they were designed to live. When folks begin to see their brethren as an asset rather than an asshat, a whole lot of progress would be made. Imagine what a billion geniouses could accomplish if left to their own invention via a proper and honest education? Smart folks understand the reasons for peace. It's more 'peaceful'. A human is to be resourced, not as a human resource but rather as a gift to be opened.

Self appointed man'kings' often trip over their own assumptions.
Some never awake from their slumber.
As far as the 'man-up' comments from the ladies out there?
It's the system, not man, that is the problem.
You 'should' know better than to allow yourself to be divided and conquered.

Who's 'your' daddy?
lOl
maybe not.....

I think we all knew, for a while, that a eventual economic collapse was inevitable. Even at the old figure of 14 trillion it was an impossible task to actually pay it off. Our debt has always been the giant elephant in the room no one wants to really take seriously but if this information is correct we could experience hyperinflation within a year.

I have been contemplating seriously leaving the country soon in fear of eventual monetary inflation. Iceland sounds like a good place to me.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


It's come to local war, but no one who can still eat frreely will wage it, so why post it? I'll join, so let's go!!!

reply to post by neo96


I'm replying to neo96's reply.
It's a good question, isn't it?(Although a person may risk being called ignorant if they don't already know the answer)
When our Australian government announced it would borrow to implement stimulus spending(in a very quick & knee jerk manner), the first question I asked, but nobody else asked, who are we going to borrow from?
Our treasurer said, "The IMF advises to do too much, rather than do too little".
When a country like the U.S. has no money left, you kinda wonder who has any money left to borrow from.

reply to post by Kliskey


The $200 trillion debt is not in the form a loan.

The debt is unfunded obligations that haven't been spent yet.

The government has committed to certain expenses, like Medicare, Social Security payments, defense spending etc in the future, but they do not have enough tax revenue coming in to pay for all these expenses.

It's like writing cheques when you don't have any cash in your bank account and your employment income won't be enough to cover the cheques. Basically living beyond your means.

Say you write cheques totalling $100,000 per year to pay for your cost of living but you only earn $100 per week. You won't ever be able to pay it off.

That makes me really nervous , If the US economy is in such a bad state i can only guess how bad the debt situation is here in Australia , I can almost guarantee the Aussie debt runs into a trillion or two , and yet they have just spent $42 billion on fiber internet . such a waste of taxpayers money , the days of right and wrong are over , Governments change the law when it suits them .The corporate heads run this world and they want money ... our money .. . they always keep the profits for themselves but when they lose money good old taxpayer steps in to pick up the bill .... seems fair huh ....

reply to post by stealthkiwi


We'll be impacted here in Australia if something happens to the US because all the financial markets will be influenced.

You don't need to be nervous in Oz though. Our economy is quite healthy, that's why we didn't go in to recession after the GFC. Our deficit will be back to a surplus in a few years - which means that the government is spending less than it brings in in taxes. It was just the stimulus package that put us in to deficit, not regular overspending.

The US has a net deficit at this point of $13.5 trillion, but as the economist pointed out they propose to spend $200 trillion more than they bring in, so the $13.5 trillion figure will gradually rise to the projected $200 trillion figure over time.

en.wikipedia.org...

good read here

turns out there are 2 types of debt

public debt and intragovernmental debt

public debt such as pensions,mutual funds,hedge funds

intragovernment debt such as china,japan,uk

we all know the government steals from social security and some of that debt belongs to fanny and freddy

the biggest owner of them all is the federal reserve i think

if you want to know the real reason the economy is in the tank it because the government is stealing from everything and everyone to the tune of $200 trillion bucks.

someone feel free to correct this post

To put that sort of debt into perspective... If you had a business that started the day that Jesus was born, and you lost 272 million dollars, per day, every day, until now, you still wouldn't be in as much debt as the U.S. government.

these debts can never be re-payed the numbers are way to high best thing to do is to cut there losses get rid of the monetary system completely clean slate. make it a worker state every individual has value and every individual must contribute (sounds alot like communism doesn't it?) and who do we owe the debt to ?

You don't owe that level of debt to anybody yet.

The US owes $13.5 trillion to other sovereign states at this time.

The financial commitments of the US government compared to projected income equals the $200 trillion.

One way to alleviate this is to cease spending on space programs as it is fiscally irresponsible at this time.

Another method would be to decrease "defense" spending. The US is the only country that has military bases on other countries soil throughout the world. Is this really necessary to defend the US? The cost is obviously sending the country into insolvency.

If a business trades while insolvent it is a crime.

reply to post by Krusty the Klown


you want to cut spending end the current wars on terror how much is that costing? kill the space program why? expand it I say, let civilians handle there own space agencies and research and contact. there really shouldn't be a monopoly on the universe