Dumbing Down America, One Graduate at a Time.

reply to post by xuenchen
Like Yoda spoke....

The article from the onion reads like.

Neil Postman once commented on a popular interview show, "When I hear people talk about the information super highway, it will become possible to shop at home, and bank at home, and get your texts at home, and get your entertainment at home, so I often wonder if this doesn't signify the end of any community life."

Although this quote doesn't exactly fit this thread, it is compelling nonetheless. The misuse of the english language, which I am guilty of most of the time, is a direct result of technology's effect on children. He also wrote a book entitled "Amusing Oursleves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business." Long story short, the advances of technology are 'dumbing down' us as a society.

How many of us have had to stand at a checkout much longer than needed because the cashier could not figure out the change to the $20 bill we have handed them when they accidentally entered in $10?

How many if us have had to explain to our children that there actually was a day when we would wait until we got home before we could make a phone call?

I know the last time I went to the local library I was amazed at how empty it was. I remember as a kid actually having to wait in line at the card catalog.

Modern technology is fabulous, don't get me wrong. Without it I wouldn't be able to relay this message to you. I only fear that it will create an apathetic society. Why learn about the past, study it and understand it when one can easily open up wikipedia on any number of handheld devices that can access the internet anywhere and give you the same information that you spent days or weeks studying. I truly hope this is not the case, but also fear that the slippery slope has become even more slippery, and it will take all of us to put an end to it.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...almost everywhere in print?... really?... gosh, i only see it online... if your local newspapers are that shabby, maybe you should apply for a job as a grammatical editor... they make purty good money - and - yeppers, i wrote PURTY cuz i can...

Granted, I was talking about online print. But from sites that also print on paper, such as Time, The New York Post, etc. The point is that if it's from a professional that gets paid to write, it should be correct.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...for all you know, they spell just fine when they have to or want to - but - prefer the shorthand stuff when they're online because its faster and just as effective (except on snobs, lol)...

Fair enough. Unless, as I said above, I am reading a professionally written piece. And no I'm not going to drag up something for proof.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...btw, why did you put that comma before "or"?... whoever taught you that THATs appropriate was wrong... there are times when a comma is appropriate before "or" but your usage aint one em, lol... no worries, happens all the time and with "but" as well... my former SO did it - drove me nuts cuz he had multiple PhDs... whenever i'd fuss at him for it, he'd say "if it bothers you, fix it but dont nag me cuz my ego is fragile", lmao... he was such a treasure...

Oh, no you di'int! It is perfectly acceptable to put a comma before a conjunction! Lernin r gud!

Originally posted by The Old American
Using the word "are" instead of "our" is not a typo.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...how do you know?... answer: you dont...

A "typo" is missing a letter, or transposed numbers. Using a different word because you think it's the right one isn't.

Originally posted by The Old American
People can't seem to even use commas properly anymore! You know, a comma is the difference between "It's time to eat, grampa!" and "It's time to eat grampa!"

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...ahahahaaa!... thats a good one!...

Thank you! I wish I could take credit for it, but that is something a writer friend of mine came up with.

Originally posted by The Old American
Is there something bigger behind it?

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...behind what?... behind our poor system of public education or behind your frustration with folks who dont write the english language like you think they should?...

Like I think they should? Is there some other English language I am somehow unaware of? Is my version different than some other acceptable one? If you have any links I will visit them immediately! I am breathlessly awaiting those links to enlightenment!

Originally posted by The Old American
don't question what TPTB tell us to learn.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...now you've gone and dunnitt - tripped into one of my pet peeves...

...why do you use the abbreviation TPTB?... too lazy to type out the words The Powers That Be?... (see, i can use caps when i wanna, lol)... why didnt you place periods between the letters?... too lazy to do it properly?... (ie: T. P. T. B.)... could it be that your rules dont apply to you?... (i'm just teasin ya about all this junk, just in case you arent sure)...

...about that pet peeve of mine (being serious now)... if you believe the greedy scum suckin slugs (that you call tptb) are despicable, then why do you show them respect by referring to them that way?... like it or not, agree or not, using the term teaches your brain that they are your masters and you are a willing submissive subjugate... you should seriously think about that - everyone should, imo...

I'm using the vernacular of this web site. That's all I got.

Originally posted by The Old American
Keeping us all uneducated burger flippers is the goal of our federal government.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...thats myopic... they need lots of well-educated submissives too and dont forget the in-betweeners...

True enough. Point to you.

Originally posted by The Old American
That, my friends, is where we are heading if we don't do something about it now. Our children are growing up dumb.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...if you believe that, then its probably fairly safe to presume that you either homeschool your kids or you spend several hours every night with them to make sure they learn properly...

If I could I certainly would. But unfortunately we don't all make enough on one salary to have a parent able to stay at home.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...some kids will go the extra mile to educate themselves and some wont... just like some parents will take the time to be heavily involved in their children's education and some wont... cant blame everything on the government (at least not honestly)...

Oh I don't blame everything on the government. Parents are to blame, as well. But it's the government that spoon-feeds our kids a bunch of malarkey for 8 hours a day. When they come home we as parents have to try to excise the crap and fill in the blank spaces with what we know is right and proper. But, as the saying goes, haters gon' hate. I'll go back to keeping my head in the sand, with my fingers in my ears singing "la la la". See you there.

/TOA

I think a large part of the problem may be the lack of grammar, rhetorical and logic being taught in schools today. Students leave school with a very basic understanding of English, if that.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


No matter how valid your point may be, I can't take you seriously with the writing style you've adopted and you're eccentric punctuation . I read your post in the voice of an bubblegum chewing, mobile phone addicted, overexcited blonde woman with her arms flailing wildly. Sorry.

I believe with the advancement of computers into schools over the last 10 years or so, that it has become worse
Just like the damage that the introduction of calculators did to the using of ones mind in Math, it seems Spellcheck has done the same amount of damage to spelling and grammar.
No one really needs to think anymore.
Just write something close to the proper spelling and then have Spellcheck do the rest.
My one fear for the future is that our Scientists, Mathemeticians, Engineers etc are going to be below par and everything that the baby boomer generation did to up our intellectual evolvement will be lost.
Kind of like a modern day equivalent of the knocking down of the Tower of Babel. It'll take generations to get back up to speed, at the rate that the quality keeps on deteriorating.

I would hardly consider 13375p34k to be regarded as the "dumbing down" of America.

13375p34k, or the shorthand used in TXTing, has been around since the 17th century, gaining momentum during the 19th century, although back then it was called "Emblematic Language".

Besides, language is organic and dynamic, the rules of grammar, definitions of words, and spelling are meant to change and evolve. It was only during the 15th century when attempts were first made to standardize the English language to begin with. Now that we live in an Information Age where Technology is advancing at such a rapid pace, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that our ability to communicate would change and evolve at an equally accelerated pace.

Those who don't understand this concept, or are loathe to embrace it, are the new dinosaurs destined to be left behind intellectually.

That said, the state of U.S. Education has been appalling for several decades and is sub-standard when compared with most of the world. We rank 33rd in the world when we compare Math, Reading, and Science competency with other nations of the world (Third-world nations even have us beat there! Mexico even exceeds the U.S. when it comes to basic Math, Reading and Science skills! It makes one reconsider if Immigration Laws preventing Hispanics from coming to the U.S. are in our better interests after all!). We still have 6 of the Top 10 Universities in the World, all of which are Ivy League Universities, however, a standard Bachelor's Degree from a U.S. University is regarded as basically the equivalent of a High School education any where else in the world.

In a country that spends but $59 million per annum on Education (less than half the cost of a single F-22 Raptor Jet) yet spends $1.223 trillion on Defense (for the mathematically impaired, that's 20,729 times more dollars spent on Defense than on Education in the U.S. every year!), is it any wonder that Jack and Jill can't read or do basic math, let alone aren't skilled in Physics and Calculus?

Add to this the fact that children are no longer encouraged to study sciences as this is supposedly a threat to National Security (my daughter has to pass an FBI Background Check and apply for an ATF Explosives Permit to play with model rockets, and forget about the Electronics and Chemistry Sets that children used to enjoy in generations past which are now considered Restricted Materials).

The United States has been creating it's own Dark Ages which will make us irrelevant on the World Stage as our children are no longer able to compete against foreign markets because the ability to innovate and apply new technologies will be entirely lost to children who lack the fundamental skills to do such. I suppose it's a good thing that we have a strong Defense Department because that's the only thing left that we will be good at.

Originally posted by fraterormus
In a country that spends but $59 million per annum on Education ...

Seriously, is that correct? For which age group? What is that per capita?

If that is accurate, and I honestly cannot possibly see how it is, that is truly horrifying!

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by fraterormus
In a country that spends but $59 million per annum on Education ...

Seriously, is that correct? For which age group? What is that per capita?

If that is accurate, and I honestly cannot possibly see how it is, that is truly horrifying!

That is not per demographic. That is not per capita. That is the Grand Total the United States federal government spends on Education and Education related projects.

SOURCE: 2010 Budget of the United States, GPOaccess.gov.

However, in all fairness, this disregards what States and Local Municipalities pay towards Education. If you add in their financial contribution, including debts and deficits, then it would be somewhere between $550-$900.8 billion, which is about 10000x more of a contribution towards Education than our Federal government makes.

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics. (2010). Digest of Education Statistics, 2009 (NCES 2010-013)

Even with the State and Local Municipality contributions towards the cost of Education in the United States, this comes out to $10,041 to $12,081 spent on each child in Primary or Secondary Education (K-12). Finland (the current #1 in Education world-wide) spends $89,000 on each child in Primary or Secondary Education.