Famed NASA Astronaut almost, kind of, (not really) says Extraterrestrials are here!

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I apologize, but this thread is now 21 pages and I can't find what I am looking for. I want to show a co-worker that US astronauts have fully admitted, on verifiable record that they have direct knowledge of Aliens visiting earth.

You shouldn't get too caught up on the word 'have'.

The astronauts might have the evidence in their mind...... see below where our most beneficent debunker explains:

Originally posted by JimOberg

But I wouldn't overinterpret the word 'have'. If you've seen evidence, or been told it, you HAVE it in your head -- physical possession is a minor angle.

Yet it might be worth asking him directly at some future point.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Only first-hand knowledge quotes please, nothing else will do in order for me to settle this discussion with a co-worker.

This thread starts with exactly that allegation, from astronaut Story Musgrave, allegedly. I'd be curious to see how many posters here still come down on accepting the allegation as true.

Probably the most unambiguous case is Gordon Cooper, in his statements about an alleged UFO sighting at Edwards AFB in 1957. But that's the topic for another thread.

The rest of the most commonly-posted internet quotations turn out to be bogus -- fictitious fables for the faithful.

Which Jim, is exactly why hopefully, people might have learned what questions to ask to see NASA go into a flat spin rather than comfortably answer them in the full knowledge that, the specific answer is negative even though the facts behind that answer might not be anywhere near as clear cut as people like you would love people to think they are.

It's because the 'answers' to what is seen outside a spacecraft is NOT clear -- specifically, because it could reflect a hazard to the vehicle and crew -- that I'm hard-over on rigorous recognition procedures to clear out the noise and 'normals' and concentrate on potentially important signals.

So totally ignoring everything as nonsense (and 'ice crystals') OR totally falling for the seductive 'it's-aliens-and-boy-am-I-smarter-than-my-friends-to-realize-this-secret'. are both wrong-headed and potentially dangerous to future space travelers -- in my view.

STS-80 dancing dots? My verdict (and the astronauts' verdict too) -- normal stuff.

Other missions, or images? Each one needs analysis.

And if something truly extraordinary appears -- an event whose probability I rate well above zero -- it's only through a rigorous and thorough approach to the evidence that the conclusion will have any credibility in the real world. That's the way I'm advocating.

But we disagree. Most folks posting here don't WANT deeper analysis, they know what their first impressions are and they enjoy them, and will preserve them against any further knowledge.

Or so it seems. Lucky the flight crew's safety -- and future recognition of ET evidence -- doesn't depend on them.

reply to post by JimOberg


But we disagree. Most folks posting here don't WANT deeper analysis, they know what their first impressions are and they enjoy them, and will preserve them against any further knowledge.

Actually it's exactly the opposite Jim, you know it is as well. that's a cheap shot not worthy of a guy like you.

reply to post by FireMoon


I don't know if it's a cheap shot. I mean when astronauts disagree with people's assessment, some users tend to accuse some of having Down's Syndrome ( not you in particular ) or say that these astronauts are on some double secret probation and have gun pointed at their heads if they tell the truth.

As far as what Buzz Aldrin said, he spotted something unidentified and it's a shame they didn't have cameras to record that object and instead they showed a video of what might be similiar to what they saw.

deleted because it was already posted.

reply to post by FireMoon


So, you not only did you equivocate and not answer the question, but you launched a personal attack on both Mr. Oberg and myself, while accusing Mr. Oberg of being off-topic. Right...

Originally posted by FireMoon
Actually it's exactly the opposite Jim, you know it is as well. that's a cheap shot not worthy of a guy like you.

The opposite is not true. The UFO field is built on face-value, purposeful misinterpretation and lies. Deeper analysis is only welcome when it depends the mystery not clarifies it.

reply to post by JimOberg


Please see the revised title of this thread.

Springer...

you have to take into consideration that these brave men and women astronauts
have probably signed the official secrets act and not only that they have a nice pension
fund to think about so they are not going to give any member "out of the loop" any real
info on alien craft or other strange activity if it puts that in jeopardy.would you throw your
pension away and be called a loon just to give some UFO buffs any real classified info if it
exists at all?

I believe there are other life forms and i dont believe we evolved from ape's,well not without
some "help" from some other far more advanced race of beings.

I also know we are being lied to about current technology and the fact is we have progressed
to the point where we are at least 25-50 years + ahead in technology that we are not privy to.

and there is plenty of evidence to show that the DOD mainly the navy have had a space programme
far more ahead of what NASA will have you believe.all NASA is is a exorcise in public relations.

just look at such projects as "project horizon" and ask yourself did they really just abandon this
quest to populate the moon and use this as a base for further off planet missions to maybe Mars?
My bet is they just carried on and the programme went black and it continues today still under a
cloak of secrecy.
Will there be disclosure as we all want? well i think it's already taking place, all be it very subtle,
such as in current movie trends etc,add to that the fact more and more people are coming forward
and telling there storys about what they witnessed and worked on and things start to make sense.

just my 2 cents (hey no, PENCE! i'm British LOL)

Originally posted by stealthyaroura
you have to take into consideration that these brave men and women astronauts
have probably signed the official secrets act and not only that they have a nice pension
fund to think about so they are not going to give any member "out of the loop" any real
info on alien craft or other strange activity if it puts that in jeopardy.would you throw your
pension away and be called a loon just to give some UFO buffs any real classified info if it
exists at all?

This is a blank check (sorry, limey buddy, I should have typed 'cheque'!!) that explains everything by explaining nothing. It certainly doesn't explain all the videos and stories going back decades. It doesn't explain the views of non-US-citizens on shuttle and station missions. And it's directly contradicted by statements from astronauts who have come to believe in UFOs (Mitchell and Cooper come to mind) from other evidence -- they never encountered UFOs or heard of others doing so during their careers, and signed no non-disclosure contracts.

I believe there are other life forms and i dont believe we evolved from ape's,well not without
some "help" from some other far more advanced race of beings.

How nice for you. First the belief, THEN the evidence.

I also know we are being lied to about current technology and the fact is we have progressed
to the point where we are at least 25-50 years + ahead in technology that we are not privy to.

When will North Korea, Venezuela, Belarus, Iran and other non-US-satrap-states begin applying that tech themselves? How are we supposed to be stopping them?

and there is plenty of evidence to show that the DOD mainly the navy have had a space programme
far more ahead of what NASA will have you believe.all NASA is is a exorcise in public relations.

Worth a separate thread, but so far, smoke and mirrors from people selling you something....

just look at such projects as "project horizon" and ask yourself did they really just abandon this
quest to populate the moon and use this as a base for further off planet missions to maybe Mars?

About five thousand paper studies wound up papering the bottom of bird cages all over. Ho hum.

My bet is they just carried on and the programme went black and it continues today still under a
cloak of secrecy.

I'll take that bet, if you define it well enough to be proven or disproven, and we agree on a jury. Get specific, you're on.

Will there be disclosure as we all want?

Let me speculate. You don't want 'disclosure', you want confirmation of what you already believe so your friends and family will respect you more.

just my 2 cents (hey no, PENCE! i'm British LOL)

well, maybe a few farthings worth.

Now, what do you think about the discussion of the subject of this thread? Or did you just drop in to opinionate and then run off, keeping your eyes and mind closed to polluting thoughts?

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


No Rex that is purely your opinion based on your particulate bias. a bias you constantly try to tar anyone who doesn't agreer with your way of seeing things.In my time, i have cleared up 40-50 sightings that never were reported because, when the witnesses gave me their statement there was a prosaic explanation for it and the people were happy with that explanation. Part of the reason they were willing to accept the explanation was because they trusted me to be open minded and i didn't act like a condescending know it all.

My agenda is purely to try and fathom out what we are dealing with there are a hundred other agendas in the field. I've been playing this game, as have others on here, with the likes of Jim for decades now. Gradually over the years the pendulum has swung back and forth, right now it is swinging towards people finding it harder and harder to keep stuff from the media due to the effect of the web. OK, so the down side of that is the world is full of Lanterns and other detritus I'm not complaining, as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it...

If you'd read the thread rather than just jumped in, you'd have seen where i mad it plain i fully understand Jim's position. Basically, hung out here like a kipper whilst NASA tried to work out its' collective cognitive dissonance over the the whole UFO question.

NASA have been offered the chance to present their case, uninterrupted , but they won't take it because saying nothing is more honourable than lying . I know that and so does anyone who has spent any length of time in this field. Behind closed doors NASA are spitting feathers over the Russians willingness to talk, a fact a Russian ex cosmonaut told me. OK, so maybe he has some agenda, but that is what i was told. What Jim totally omits in his blindsiding and sidetracking over the difference between NASA and the Russians is this. Russians have a far more open mind towards the whole paranormal field because of their cultural background. In effect, Russia never totally bought into the whole clockwork universe idea that has reigned over science since Newton. So they are far more predisposed to talk in front of camera about things the Americans have kittens about because it might make them look cranky. The collapse of the wall in 1990 has simply exacerbated NASA's problem and they have gone the, total button down, route.

It's not my problem that people on here are often so naive about politics they don't see why the Americas are like they are. They are currently top dogs as such , Now i suspect NASA has seen these objects, filmed them and the military have just shrugged and said. "Don't ask us we can't catch 'em either. By and large whatever intelligence is behind these objects has not interfered. The odd show of strength but mainly aimed at objects not personnel. So, over time the military has just let them get on with it. However there isn't a cat in hell[s chance they are going to tell the world they are impotent in the face of these objects as that would, in their minds, give license to a whole rake of human groups to start cutting up rough with them as well. The Russians, freed of their empire and the duties that went with it no longer feel the need to sit on it and are, little by little easing people into the idea we might not be alone, but hey don't panic. Of course they are loving watching the Americans jumping through hoops and coming up with ever increasingly out there ideas to keep a lid on it and you can't blame them for not having at least a giggle.

We hear so much cant about how sophisticated the Americans are militarily and it happens to be a load of old cobblers. They love you to think that, but like the ex GI says in that documentary.

"The adverts tell you they have all the latest equipment, the truth is i was stuck in Iraq in a Vietnam era flak vest and a rifle, that was it".

So the UFO field allows the Americans to keep up that front. "Hey guys we lie, we cheat, we might have this, we might have that, nod wink." I strongly suspect they have nowt and if they did pick something up at Roswell they broke it and haven't the first clue how to put it back together again.

In short TPB, are doing exactly what parents do to kids when they ask difficult questions. Tell them not worry it won't happen. Jim will score points when, what looks like a promising case, turns out to be Mrs Studerbaker's car headlight reflecting off the fog down into the valley. We score points when the Russians debag the Yanks publically by saying. "Actually, there is some weird stuff out there".. The difference is, Jim's side can't concede in public we can.

reply to post by gsup1


Look, on the one hand the sceptics tell you. Astronauts and Pilots don't make good witnesses but when it suits them, they are unimpeachable. It really doesn't take a genius to do some studying for yourself and check the cases where each opinion on pilots as witnesses applies. I gave people a piece of into from one of the cosmonauts on here that quite clearly helps anyone who wants to spot what's going on. It's up to people to find it for themselves, the moment you do you can look back on several of Jim's explanations and go ..er hang on, if you know. how come? By and large I have found truths like this are best left to people to find for themselves. Those that want to see it will those that don't won't. I don't give toss about changing people's minds on this subject, seeing bs pedalled as *fact* by people is something different altogether.

reply to post by stealthyaroura

I also know we are being lied to about current technology and the fact is we have progressed
to the point where we are at least 25-50 years + ahead in technology that we are not privy to.

Ok, if you are referring to R&D in the aerospace space industry, then that's pretty logical. F117 concept was done in the 70s but the craf was used in 90s. I don't doubt we have many experimental aircraft in the pipeline.

and there is plenty of evidence to show that the DOD mainly the navy have had a space programme
far more ahead of what NASA will have you believe.all NASA is is a exorcise in public relations.

That is a pretty #ing expensive exercise in public relations as well as lives.

just look at such projects as "project horizon" and ask yourself did they really just abandon this
quest to populate the moon and use this as a base for further off planet missions to maybe Mars?
My bet is they just carried on and the programme went black and it continues today still under a
cloak of secrecy.

What would be the point of that? Not to mention a waste of money. Placing 12 guys on the moon to do what? Back in the day it made sense because everyone's panties were all wet with competition with the Soviet Union. Now what would be the point? Just going for the hell of it?

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by The Shrike
Count how many replies also disagree with Jim's conclusions. He is almost alone.

Right, I've got the actual eyewitnesses agreeing with me, and the folks agreeing with you mostly have announced they will never sully their intellects with even reading my analyses, and if any eyewitnesses provide inconvenient testimony, they're obviously liars. They are more confident, the less they know. A single-source claim of watching an eight-foot-tall alien visiting the space shuttle in orbit -- totally credible! A checkable observation of a peculiar and highly suggestive similarity in the illumination conditions of the most famous 'space UFOs' -- no, no, you said there would be no math, it makes my head explode!

I like the company I keep. You are known by the company you keep.

No complaints from ME!
(snip)

I disagree that you have the actual witnesses agreeing with you. Those could not be witnesses because if they were they would disagree with you for by agreeing with you they're showing that they do not really qualify as critical observers.

I'll suggest who the actual witnesses are/were. It's those individuals who handled the cameras and who found it necessary to zoom in on distant objects. Get their names and find out why they were interested in zooming in on obviously distant objects. Distant objects shown hauling over the planet above the cloud cover; those distant objects that grouped together then dispersed. I'm sure that no self-respecting astronaut would admit to zooming in on close-by ice particles/debris since they couldn't zoom in on close objects to begin with and because what interest could close-by ice particles/debris have? We've only discussed a couple of such instances (distant objects zoomed in on) but there's a lot more footage which is just as interesting.

Today I received the "research" version of THE SECRET NASA TRANSMISSIONS which consists of 4 DVDs and which include 90 minutes of footage. That's 1 hour more footage than the original release. What do you think that extra hour shows? I'll skip the first 3 DVDs and study the footage first. Trust me, I'll be able to mention more interesting footage where your explanations will get lost in the debris (keeping fingers +sed!).

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I apologize, but this thread is now 21 pages and I can't find what I am looking for. I want to show a co-worker that US astronauts have fully admitted, on verifiable record that they have direct knowledge of Aliens visiting earth.
(snip)

Although I cannot help you, I will state my opinion based on the lack of (public) evidence. I do not think that any astronaut, whether American or another nationality, has ever admitted that they have direct knowledge of aliens visiting earth, not do I think that anyone in any field could make such a comment. All anyone could do is state that they have seen unidentifiable, non-human constructed aerial vehicles and they have no idea where such vehicles originated. The romantic consensus is that the vehicles contain beings called aliens and believed to be from a far away location, another galaxy if you will. It doesn't matter how long a thread gets, the info you are searching for is not available.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by FireMoon
No you won't find the quote's you already know don't exist.

Of course, because as we all know, the lack of evidence is evidence enough, right?

Originally posted by FireMoon
What we do have from this thread is, an ex member of NASA quite blatantly indulging in deception

So, let us get this straight, you are accusing Mr. Oberg of being a disinfo agent? A straight yes or no answer will do. Please don't equivocate.

Originally posted by FireMoon
quite blatantly indulging in deception and refusing to answer a straight question, resorting to calling people names and then quoting their opinions as fact without a shred of evidence to back it up...

Actually, Mr. Oberg is being very straight-forward and providing lots of evidence to back up his arguments. How you can accuse him of being deceptive and not providing evidence is a mystery and very telling.

Check list: let's see, boxing gloves on nice 'n' snug.

Of course, because as we all know, the lack of evidence is evidence enough, right?

The lack of evidence simply means you can't prove your case. Until evidence materializes, it doesn't exist for argument's sake.

So, let us get this straight, you are accusing Mr. Oberg of being a disinfo agent? A straight yes or no answer will do. Please don't equivocate.

FireMoon's answer is immaterial as we all know that Mr Oberg is not a disinfo agent as he has never expressed himself as such. His only problem is that he sticks to his script and he doesn't allow over-writes. He seems to believe in what he says as being that last word and is really inflexible. We may not agree with his conclusions but he is honest in what he believes, which doesn't always convince others, such as myself.

THE TRUTH is THE TRUTH and it can not be stood down. We must Keep prizing at the JAWs of the powers that be Untill they crack open and Spill the VilLE truth. Unwittingly David ike is Making Life easy for them by painting us that Demand the truth, As Demented, waiting For our Queen ( God bless her ) to SHED her skin. ( OH Dave Please Believe what you Like....Its your God given right .....BUT.....PLEASE , PLEASE....Dont do us any Favours.

Originally posted by The Shrike
Today I received the "research" version of THE SECRET NASA TRANSMISSIONS which consists of 4 DVDs and which include 90 minutes of footage. That's 1 hour more footage than the original release. What do you think that extra hour shows? I'll skip the first 3 DVDs and study the footage first. Trust me, I'll be able to mention more interesting footage where your explanations will get lost in the debris (keeping fingers +sed!).

I look forward to the new thread.

But check out my expectations -- the new material STILL will not provide the date/time of the original videos so they can be independently corroborated and the context and illumination conditions determined. Can't have that, too much of a risk of a prosaic explanation, so you gotta withhold the data critical for further research -- while bragging that skeptics can offer no alternate explanations. At least, that's been the pattern so far and it's proven so very acceptable to the target audience.

Can you share a data point: how much did the DVDs cost you?