I thought "internet spelling" was a no no.

Thanks for the thoughtful posts!
this thread turned out to be a good one! something I feel lacking on here lately.

Does language make a difference to thought?

Mary Shelley on the Theraputic Value of Language

Maybe too dry for ATS, but a very interesting read! Particularly the Frankenstein commentary.

Would the Constitution have the impact it does if texted? The Bible?
Formality can be good.

reply to post by OldDragger


I guess I killed my own thread!
Oh the humanity!

reply to post by OldDragger


I do understand where you are coming from, however some of us have a version of English that deviates from standard that is very important culturally.

In my neck of the woods our county motto would be rendered useless in standard English.. We wunt be druv, and like your comments about your constitution our motto, culture would lose it's essence if it was in the gray drab standard English.

The following are extracts from published works c 1830, and grammatically would have been the correct until recent times*

(* Kipling used the Sussex reduplicated plural in his works at the turn of the last century, and I have use a lot of the same spelling/grammar)

I’ll tell ye a story, wot ev’ry one knows, Dat man’s sich a commical cretur, However much bigger he gets dan he’s clothes, He’s still a desire to be greater.

He is sich a mutteren grumblen elf, An meets wud abundance ov trouble, Thinks nobuddy is so bad off as hisself, Dis maakes he’s calamities double.

How is the above any different from the comments about poor educational levels being made today in reference to poor writing skills.. and from my position, poor writing skills, even poor educational levels does not a sheep make..

in fact we come full circle to my counties motto, We wunt be druv.. which means, We will not be driven (like sheep) while to include the essence of the expression it should read, "we will not be driven like sheep or told what to do by some self appointed know it all.

And so we move onto text speak... who is to say what is the correct version of English.. so I respect all versions and flavours of this wonderfully expressive language I could not defend my version or the history of my people (the first Saxon nation in what was to become England) otherwise

Thank you OD for this one. I enjoyed the replies given.

Now... My own humble opinion to your subject.

ATS T&C doesn't ask for clear and proper grammar and spelling post for nothing.

This is a site that is visited by people from all over the world with different tongs all over. Lots don't master English fully as it is not their native speech or because they don't use, hear or speak it on a regular basis.

That's why it is important to write with preferably perfect grammar and spelling. This way everyone has the best chance to actually understand what's posted. Even when they only know a couple of English words, but that can be enough to understand the meaning of a post from its context. Unknown words are learned surprisingly easy that way.
Changed spelling or abbreviations can make a word or meaning unrecognizable, which basically messes up flow and context. A death sin in a place without any other contact with the writer except some letters... A big cause of misunderstanding alone.

I've only started writing in English a year ago... The day I signed up. I've been hearing and understanding English since I was little so that was a big advantage. Try reading a few of my first posts. They are most definitely lacking a lot of what I now include in my posts.
The only reason my English got better, was because of others that used good grammar and proper spelling in their posts.

I can assure you m English wouldn't be as it is now, when I only read posts that looked like the OP's example.

So please people. Try and write as good and understandable as you possibly can. I think it's just a small effort/demand easily done even and it will only have good effects and make ATS posts, quality posts.

Just my 2 cents.

Thank you.

reply to post by OldDragger
OldDragger,
I want you to know I agree solidly with you. If a person wants people to know for certain what he's talking or writing about, spell it out, don't lol me or imo me, I never did like it and never will. There's too many abreviations that one has to stop and figure out, what on earth is this one, yes there is certain ones that are easy, but what should be done is spell it out the first time and then it is ok to abreviate in the same communication. Serious people should do it seriously right. No goofing around. Ha, Ha.

You are right with no doubt from this one.

Truthiron.

From the earliest centuries the Englsih language has changed constantly, some small (American), some huge (Introduction of French etc) changes. It's a sad possibilty though that in 100 years time, "text" English could become the norm, it pretty much is now amongst a lot of people. I have actually had someone say "lol" at a joke instead of laughing (well, they laughed too at the same time). I think U instead of you and such "text" words, is 1) used to texting on mobiles back when SMS was restricted to a few words and 2) sheer bone idleness.

There is one word above all others that really annoys me though......"noob", gaah! I hate that word with a passion!

I'd like to add...:

I notice something worse around in my area and country.

Grammar sins.

People are using words wrong, or they place them in the wrong spot in a sentence. They mean something but do to their alternative usage, they actually say something that has another meaning. Usually the opposite of what they mean to say.

People should really pay attention to their language. No place for excuses. School is mandatory. Out here it is even
illegal not to go to school until the age of 18.
Besides a situation in which you say something you don't intend to say will most definitely end bad. Chaos,by misunderstanding.

It will be the tower of Babel all over agsin.

Originally posted by intrepid
Personally Leet Speak makes me :bnghd:

What you're seeing on ATS is far from "leet speak". en.wikipedia.org...

What we're seeing here is nothing more then laziness. If you can't type out a darn word in it's entirety then don't post. Abbreviating everything like "evr" and "ur" and "rite" etc. makes you look like a complete moron. Another thin that irks me is punctuation. I know not everyone knows everything, but adding a comma and a period to sentences and paragraphs make a world of difference!

I gave up "internet spelling" years ago, because I always thought it was silly.People should try and put at least a little effort into their posts. I'm giving this thread a bump, because I support the cause!

Originally posted by Frontkjemper

Originally posted by intrepid
Personally Leet Speak makes me :bnghd:

What you're seeing on ATS is far from "leet speak". en.wikipedia.org...

What we're seeing here is nothing more then laziness. If you can't type out a darn word in it's entirety then don't post. Abbreviating everything like "evr" and "ur" and "rite" etc. makes you look like a complete moron. Another thin that irks me is punctuation. I know not everyone knows everything, but adding a comma and a period to sentences and paragraphs make a world of difference!

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YES! Exactly!
Years ago uneducated semi litterate people spelled that way. They didn't have the opportunity for education.
Now people throw that thing that people dreamed of for centuries ( education) away becuase of modern trendiness.
How sad. How stupid and vain.

Originally posted by OldDragger

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YES! Exactly!
Years ago uneducated semi litterate people spelled that way. They didn't have the opportunity for education.
Now people throw that thing that people dreamed of for centuries ( education) away becuase of modern trendiness.
How sad. How stupid and vain.

I'm sorry, but I think that's nonsense.

Anyone that has ever learned how to write learned this the way they were supposed to at the time. Any rape of literature could have only come after.

Why ?

Because when you want to change something that actually has a common meaning, you first have to learn it to understand it.

Like ur.

Ur is used because it prevents a proper spelling of your, you're. ( So they do know there are more ways to spell it ? )
And...
It's short. ( Mmmm... Short from what ? )

reply to post by OldDragger


On behalf of all those who, I am sure, would concur, but whose voices will not be heard, either because this thread will soon be buried under the usual avalanche of OMG-insert-idiocy-of-choice!!!!!! threads or because they have left this site (and there are many of those), I'd like to point you to this thread that I found very encouraging and disheartening, all at the same time:

There grammers pothetic

And here is a thread of mine that was originally moved over to BTS, on grounds too ridiculous to be even named here.

A fun way to improve your English AND feed the hungry


Some advocate a "relaxed" attitude towards language, claiming that languages "change".
I'd like to remind them that there is change and there is... change.
Dead bodies "change", too - very much so!
It's called DECAY.


P.S. Sinter Klaas, I think you expressed the viewpoint of us, foreigners, in the most admirable and commendable way. :-)