What could this Be?? 911 - Second Strike Footage... Wing Disapears

reply to post by TKDRL


It looks like the buildings of new york are creating most of the shadows. The wtc and the plane are being hit by the same angle of sun. It may be that the plane is partially shadowed by the smoke in the air.

reply to post by TKDRL


Well I'm sure maybe WW could tell you better but as far as the wing being lit up and the bottom darkened by shadow, I'm pretty sure the wing is "flexing" upwards (just enough to catch the sunlight) due to the speed and the quick bank (the pilot) does just before impact.

Otherwise, the lighting is perfectly normal (to me anyways) you have to remember we are talking downtown Manhattan there are buildings everywhere casting shadows. Even though, I don't think there is anything strange about the screen shot(or the film for that matter).

reply to post by Orion7911


I think the idea is that there is indisputable proof that the wing and tail lit up from the sun just before the impact. The fact that the exact portion which lit up is what disappeared in the OP's video is what everyone is getting at here.

We're not trying to "debunk" or blind you with "disinfo." We're trying to get to the TRUTH of the matter. Apparently it is your job to make everything think every single thing that isn't explained by speech bubbles from the plane and building itself put into question, and I understand that. You want to question all the events of 9/11. The problem is, there is way too much proof of a real plane to dispute it. Trying to continue to push doubt about it could be seen as irresponsible as some.

I think there are many aspects of 9/11 that do still need to be debated and dug into. This is simply not one of them.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


Video #1. Russ Wintenberg. Boy, I could tell you what I've heard about HIM, form other pilots in the industry. He's well known as a loud-mouthed troublemaker.

But, rather than his character, let's examine WHAT he said:

Fallacy number one, and typical truther distortion tactic, is the "jump from a Cessna 172 into a glass cockpit" falsehood. It is the style (especially seen on many "truther websites", and most often at the "club" (who he made that video with) the so-called "PilotsFor9/11Truth". The hijackers who flew had several hundred hours each, and their movements were tracked afterwards, showing that they had many times bought simulator time in the 757 and 767 sims. This not only gave them time to get the "feel" for the airplanes, but to use all the various controls they would need, the navigation computers and other instrumentation, and to familiarize them with the cockpit layouts.

Number two is his completely off-the-wall claims of "five, six or seven Gs" in the turns and maneuvering of the airplanes. Any pilot with just a few hours knows this is ridiculous. At most, the angles of bank in turns was 35-40 degrees. A sustained 40-degree banked turn is about 1.3 Gs. At 60 degrees it is an even 2 Gs. Even IF you are doing aerobatics, say a loop? You might pull about 3 Gs. At his ridiculous "strawman" levels of G force, you begin to "gray out", if you aren't wearing a G-suit....or employ a certain technique that competitive aerobatic pilots (or fighter pilots, with/without the G-suit) use, for brief excursions above five or six, for certain extreme maneuvers.

His comments appear to be directed toward the layperson, one NOT experienced with flying...because REAL pilots just laugh at him.

The man either is delusional (possible), OR was given BAD information to base his opinions on (also possible), such as being told all these things, about "jumping from the Cessna" and the "high G forces" nonsense. SO, benefit of the doubt on him, he said those things in the interview because he was fed poor information.

In either case, there are tens of thousands of OTHER qualified and experienced airline pilots who see through his BS. Tens of thousands of experienced professionals who DO NOT JOIN that silly "club" known as "P4T".

reply to post by Korg Trinity


Second video displays the comments from Ralph Kolstad. Equally hyperbolic, and just more of the same script, from just about ALL of the "truther" websites and strawman arguments.

HE seems to focus on the Pentagon, and American 77. He goes on a bit about NYC too. BUT, AAL 77:

Where his "claims" fall completely apart is the notion that ANY part of the flight of AAL 77 was something that he, Kolstad, with "6,000 hours in the 757" couldn't do!!! I have watched and watched, and know EXACTLY what was done, in the final minutes (heck, the whole flight, from takeoff, to take-OVER, to impact) and not once.....NOT ONCE is there anything incredibly "difficult", nor unusual. IN FACT, the final turn, the much-ballyhooed "330-degree" turn around, is no different than what a typical airliner flies EVERY day, when it makes turns, and is maneuvering for the landing approach. The only thing NOT normally seen or experienced on your professionally flown airliner is a bank angle over 30 degrees. For passenger comfort, and so as not to alarm anyone. Modern jets have circuitry, and a "voice" programmed to announce any excursions past angles of 35 degrees, as a reminder. AAL 77's angles occasionally exceeded 35, but only for a moment. Well within the aerodynamic capabilities of the airplane.

Every six or twelve months airline pilots have to have a "Proficiency Check", conducted at the airline's training centers, in the simulator. One of many maneuvers we perform, to demonstrate command and control abilities, is a "steep turn"....250 knots is the usual airspeed targeted, and we strive for a 45-degree angle. The airplane does this without ANY difficulty.

Kolsatd, like Wittenberg, is a provocateur, and for reasons known only to them, apparently. Even the ending of that video made me laugh. He is "joined by over 30 other" pilots!!! Wow! What a level of fortitude and "conviction".... only "30 others"!! Out of tens of thousands.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

Video #1. Russ Wintenberg. Boy, I could tell you what I've heard about HIM, form other pilots in the industry. He's well known as a loud-mouthed troublemaker.

Of course anything to discredit the information I presented....

This is Captain Russ Wintenbergs credentials...

Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret)
30,000+ Total Flight Time 707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC-8, L-1049, Learjet 24/25, L-188 Ground Instructor, Advanced Ground Instructor, Instrument Instructor, Flight Engineer Turbojet Aircraft Dispatcher Pan Am, United United States Air Force (ret) Over 100 Combat Missions Flown Command time in: - N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93) - N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

And you are calling him... "a loud-mouthed troublemaker"

If you are a real pilot like you claim to be... still no proof of that either... where is your respect for someone whom has actually flown the planes that were allegedly used on 911..

and what of the other many many other pilots with hundreds of thousands of flight time between them, the high profile engineers and physicists... all saying the same as Russ???

This list is way too long to put here and is only the members of pilots for truth, there are many many other sources where pilots are standing up and saying impossible..

List of Pilots for Truth Members...

[snip]The hijackers who flew had several hundred hours each, and their movements were tracked afterwards, showing that they had many times bought simulator time in the 757 and 767 sims. This not only gave them time to get the "feel" for the airplanes, but to use all the various controls they would need, the navigation computers and other instrumentation, and to familiarize them with the cockpit layouts.

Where is your Source and Proof that these total newbies had anything more than crop dusting experience... we are talking a single engine prop here..... Or are we just to take your word for it that they somehow managed to gain more experience than commercial airline pilots that said they couldn't do it???

The man either is delusional (possible), OR was given BAD information to base his opinions on

The guy is retired 767 commercial pilot... not some crazy whacko or someone that could just swallow bad in formation then regurgitate?

Check the list above it includes high profile people like John Lear - Son of Bill Lear... creator of Lear Jet...

So tell me how are we supposed to take your word for it when there are actual verified high profile commercial and military pilots saying the opposite to you???

Korg.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

Second video displays the comments from Ralph Kolstad. Equally hyperbolic, and just more of the same script, from just about ALL of the "truther" websites and strawman arguments.

HE seems to focus on the Pentagon, and American 77. He goes on a bit about NYC too. BUT, AAL 77:

And Ralph Kolstad's credentials are??

oh yeah here they are...

Commander Ralph Kolstad
23,000 hours 2
7 years in the airlines B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines.
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers,
TopGun twice civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds Command time in: - N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77) - N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 11)

Read That... 23,000 flight hours and obtained Top Gun twice at miramar....

Not exactly someone whom should be taken lightly or brushed off.... If he said it couldn't be done... I believe him.

Korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity

Highly amusing, you want to see evidence that everything Weedwhacker has said is true, but you're swallowing everything from P4T raw. Par for the course as a noplaner, I guess :@@

ETA: And again, another argument from authority. His credentials does not make or break his argument, his own words does that for him - along with the physical remains of N644AA and her passenger and crew found within the Pentagon.

Originally posted by roboe
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

Highly amusing, you want to see evidence that everything Weedwhacker has said is true, but you're swallowing everything from P4T raw. Par for the course as a noplaner, I guess :@@

Geeze that's the most illogical thing I've ever heard!!

Errrr on the one hand we have Weedwhacker whom is an ATS member whom confesses to being a pilot (which we have no proof of and we are asked to just take his word....) on the other the very large members list of pilots for truth all verified pilots with hundreds of thousands of hours flight time between them, engineers and physicists and aviation experts.

And you think I should choose weedwhackers version of events rather than all the verified pilots, engineers and physicists (too many to mention... visit the link above) all saying the same thing and directly opposite to weedwhackers version of events on 911....

If one person said yes and over 100 people say no... whom do you think is likely to right???

Korg.

Originally posted by Korg TrinityAnd you think I should choose weedwhackers version of events rather than all the verified pilots, engineers and physicists (too many to mention... visit the link above) all saying the same thing and directly opposite to weedwhackers version of events on 911....

No, I just think you should demand the same level of scrutiny from P4T as you demand from Weedwhacker.

In a previous post, you wrote:

Where is your Source and Proof that these total newbies had anything more than crop dusting experience...

I ask, and so should you, where is P4Ts proof that this was all the experience the pilots hijackers had?

Originally posted by roboe

Originally posted by Korg TrinityAnd you think I should choose weedwhackers version of events rather than all the verified pilots, engineers and physicists (too many to mention... visit the link above) all saying the same thing and directly opposite to weedwhackers version of events on 911....

No, I just think you should demand the same level of scrutiny from P4T as you demand from Weedwhacker.

In a previous post, you wrote:

Where is your Source and Proof that these total newbies had anything more than crop dusting experience...

I ask, and so should you, where is P4Ts proof that this was all the experience the pilots hijackers had?

I repeat....

If you have more than 100 professionals all saying one thing in unison, and then you have 1 person whom is not verified saying the opposite...

Whom is likely to be right??

Answer the question...

Korg.

ooppss double post.. sorry

korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


I didn't write the snippet I'm posting, at the bottom...wish I had. Sums up my opinion of those so-called "experts" perfectly. You see, regardless of their numbers of hours, or numbers of airplanes flown, or admission to "Top Gun", etc....they are ALL "stepping up" for reasons other than "truth". They KNOW that the tens of thousands of OTHER pilots just laugh at (or cringe) at them, and their "claims". I just scratch my head at the motives....whether to get a cut of the paltry side-business that is selling DVDs...or Internet marketing ....(and I know nothing about the Internet advertising business, nor how lucrative it might be IF you stir things up enough to draw attention to your sites, and thus revenue from those streams).

I personally know, or have heard stories, just from my own airline (and this occurs throughout the industry, not limited to any one company or country) hair-raising examples of "well qualified, high time" pilots who, but for there having been another equally qualified, but more proficient and aware pilot, could have become a statistic.

Eventually, two so-called "weak sisters" may get paired up, and sometimes result in disaster. Often, it's just a screw-up that has many levels of embarrassment and/or disciplinary actions on them, up to and including FAA action, if warranted. MANY things occur, kept in-house, never to grab the media's attention.

And, yes...sadly, even a 30,000-hour pilot can be a stooge. I have seen it, over and over again.

BTW, quite a few ATS members, and staff, know my veracity. I have 20,000 hours TT, and am type-rated in the Boeing 737, B-757/767 and the DC-9/MD-80 series. I have other non-command experience in the Boeing 727, DC-10 and Airbus A-300, all during the long career at my airline. And, I CAN READ THE REPORTS, and see the data, and apply my knowledge and experience to those events, and then can accurately tell you that Kolstad, Wittenberg, and the rest are either playing a game, or else it's a darn good thing they're retired. In "consulting", as I believe some are. Might be Russ Aimer, hard to keep track.

Point is, when you actually closely examine the "Pilots" list....you see but a scant small percentage of actual aviators of any experience level. AND, when you pay attention to the "Patriots" list, lo and behold! The same cast of characters!! But, they make it "look" like it's just adding "more to the list". They are cross-pollinating.

Did you see the link to the letter from Glen Stanish, another "P4T" co-founder?? Not sure if it was this thread. He wrote a diatribe, as a "truther" to the Air Line Pilots Association...cc'd to many in administration, and to a few of the Local Council office holders, mostly at Continental Airlines (since that's where he works....now). Merging with United, of course. HIS background is sketchy, and only is employed AT CAL because of prior mergers...not hired off the street, based on his credentials.

I'm sure it gave everyone who gets to read it as much of a laugh as it gives me. It is especially funny, as he has presumption to suggest the resolution, to the exact language, in the manner that is typical of other ALPA resolutions....the "legalese" and the "whereas" this, and "whereas" that. True comedy gold!!!

Finally, let's not forget another "co-founder"....I guess he'd warm the cockles of YOUR heart, because he is the "no planer" (and not mentioned much, anymore, by "P4T"...hmmm, wonder why?).....John Lear.

Anyway, here's what someone else has to say, and as I said, it echoes the opinions of not just me, but thousands of others who just shake their heads, and walk away....I try, but when I see such blatant ignorance being spread, it's difficult not to set the record straight, sometimes.
:

Their forums are all alike - Loose Change, Pentacon, Pilots for 9/11 Truth, Architects for 9/11 Truth, Veterinarians for 9/11 Truth, Proctologists for 9/11 Truth, Limo Drivers for 9/11 Truth, Truck Drivers for 9/11 Truth, whatever. They'll ban anyone in a heartbeat if you make any sort of counter-factual argument and their reason will be "Debate in the discussion forum!" or "Discussion in the debate forum!" or "Saying stuff we don't like!". Debate is impossible with them. Facts to them are "government lies" and even personal experience is nothing more than "lies" coming from a "government shill". Anything - ANYTHING that does not conform to their warped view of things is a lie and if you do not conform to their warped view of things, you are a liar.

For all their Internet blustering, though, these clowns will never, ever take any of their claims to court because primarily they lack the power of their convictions to really think they could get anywhere with their claims. Plus, their data and claims would never, ever survive professional scrutiny. I've lost count of the number of breathless - BREATHLESS claims of "I have so much evidence I could take them to court right now!" or "This will blow the case wide open!" on certain elements of the 9/11 attacks, but when query "Why aren't you?" you get the standard responses - either a spewing of an indignant "Who do you think you are?" or an immediate entry into the classic excuse matrix - "My dog died" or "My cat coughed up a hairball" or "I can't take the time" or "I have a day job" or "Nobody cares" or "I need to get a haircut". They'll tell you they hold the key - the very answer - to the most heinous crime in recorded history yet won't do anything about it but sit on a web page and hurl baseless accusations at the military or civilians involved in this.

When you try to point out that, if they are as right they claim to be, this is the worst mass-murder at a single time in the history of the world and how can they POSSIBLY remain quiet, they remain unswayed. Bottom line of what they are doing? Its no more than a scam to sell cute little woman's cap sleeve baby-doll tee-shirts for that special little co-pilot in your life or to grab yourself a sporty ball cap, complete with the breathtaking "Pilots for 9/11 Truth!" logo handsomely emblazoned on it. Actually doing something would put what little bit of a cash-cow to bed. As Balsamo points out in a recent post of his lecturing someone who has a pilot buddy who wants to remain anonymous:

"Tell him to step up, or step off. His words mean nothing to anyone if he isnt willing to step up to the plate. Whats worse, is his words mean nothing to himself".

Advice that Balsamo himself doesn't seem to heed - preferring to hide behind a web page, scramming money from people for the aforementioned tee shirts and ball caps and shoddy DVDs produced in a basement garage somewhere. Instead of heading to the moonbat-friendly 9th District Court in San Fran to obtain an indictment for mass murder of every breathing human being in or vaguely associated with the US government, he is content to sit on his ass and rake in money. He is a charlatan, and his "group of pilots" are boneheaded morons.

www.blackfive.net...

Click the link, a great deal more...and John Lear is mentioned too, of course.


Ya know, ANY profession will have its "moonbats", as the author above so eloquenly put it.

I know many doctors, and its similar in their profession....ask one if you know one, what they'd do if a close family member needed surgery? WHO would he/she pick, out of all the colleagues they know and interact with on a daily basis, whether working IN a hospital, or while making rounds, if in private practice. Ask WHY they they select one surgeon, versus another....ALL equally credentialled,a d qualified, yes? Doctors know each other's abilities, and they know who the less-than-capable, regardless of level of experience, are.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


Have you been indoctrinated into Pilots4Truth?

You keep barking out the same line... Who do you believe 100+ or 1 guy... Do you see the absurdity of this sentence? Are you under the impression that you are in the majority with your completely ignorant theory? Let me assure you.. You and the P4T are the minority.. Are you under the impression that WW is the only person on this thread that thinks this theory is ignorant? How about around the country? Your camp is bare!

More americans believe that they were PLANES.. not some CGI or hologram crap!! Wake up man.. You are brainwashed, period!!

You are demanding proof from everyone .. but have not answered ONE SINGLE FRICKING QUESTION. Your a mouthpiece. All you do is regurgitate info that you have learned in 911 propaganda videos. You have not had one unique or new thought or comment in this entire thread.

I asked you the same 7 to 8 questions for 5 pages.. Then you said you would answer them if I "Answered one question" I answered that question..
Here we are again, you demanding proof of every little piece of a persons post.. But you are willing to post other people words and thoughts, without checking to make sure they werent written by some babbling psychopath with an agenda.


I think this will be my last post.. I don't think I have ever witnessed an Op lose credibility so fast and so drasticly.

I truely hope, one day, you wake up and see that this theory is absurd.

Originally posted by MiMobs
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

Have you been indoctrinated into Pilots4Truth?
.

Hahaha that's funny. This isn't some religious cult you know... and as I have said this isn't just one organization all saying the same thing. This is millions of people standing up and saying they don't believe the OS Bull!!

Brain washing indeed

I find it interesting that such a new member at ATS seems to think they know how things are around here. Go check out some threads and come back when your eyes have been opened somewhat!!

Maybe there is still hope for you yet.

Korg.

Originally posted by MiMobs
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

[snip]
Stop addressing me. [snip]

Then stop posting on the thread I started then??

You are only capable of making statements. You dont have the ability or knowledge to back them up.

No you don't seem to have ability to discuss without personal attacks... Ignoring all the evidence I presented in answer to your questions and generally act like a complete ATS newbie... which I notice you are... 11 days under your belt and yet you seem to think that any view opposed to yours is wrong and the person with an opposing view should be subject to personal attacks that your posts are full.

You have Zero idea who I am yet you say I have no ability and knowledge... I strong suggest you gain some ATS experience before you stand up and claim my view is inconsistent.

I just hope that the posters have noticed that you failed to answer any questions.. NOT ONE!!!!

Suggestion... Re-read the entire thread and this time watch the vids I posted, instead of skip reading my post in response.

You then said "I will answer these questions once mimobs answers this 1 question... Well I answered it ... Here we sit waiting for the OP to answer the most basic questions. You drone on about this and that without answering anything.

Who am I?? The fountain of all knowledge?? For Christ sake I have an opinion and I presented the evidence as to why I arrive at my conclusion. If you don't agree with it that's your prerogative... but I won't change my mind just because of a newbie getting angry that my view differs from theirs.

Also... You have proven your comprehension skills to be less than average..

Case in point. Your constant personal attacks are tiring, childish, and frankly unbecoming of an ATS member. If ATS had not removed the ignore button, you would have been removed from offending my eyes, but as is I have had to complain to the mods constantly about your un ATS like manor.

NOBODY HERE BELIEVES THE OS..

Totally illogical statement, you previously said you believe that it was commercial flights that hit the WTC, that it was a 767-200 and that the hijackers could do it.

Simply put, if you believe that then you are a believer of the OS. since that is what the OS is....

Why does it have to be "Believe everything or believe nothing"..

It isn't believe everything or nothing, I don't believe it was holograms, I don't believe it was a direct energy weapon, I don't believe an alien space craft or technology derived of was used.... some do.. I do not.

What I do believe however is that something other than a 767-200 hit the wtc and the video footage has been doctored to show what the people behind the event and the OS want you to see.

But look, I'm tired of your posts now, this will be the last time I address you, I haven't the time to deal with this kind of unATS like behavior.. I'm not a mod after all....

Korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


You say my posts are riddled with personal attacks? Not one bit. There are places that I point out confirmed traits that you carry.

Case and point.. I asked you about the pentagon 5 times.. You kept answering, thinking I was saying WTC.. You then admitted that you didn't comprehend my meaning.. So am I that far off base with my comments?

You keep saying that we believe the OS.. I keep telling you I dont.. You say because I believe that a plane hit the WTC, I must believe the OS...

Ok here is your logic in play.. The OS says it was daylight when the attack happened. If you also agree that it was daylight, then you believe the OS.. See how silly that is?

So was it day light when the attack happened?

You stated exactly this " I will answer the questions when Mimobs answers this one question".. I answered that question.. Now, when asked to hold up to your end of the bargain, you say " I am not the fountain of knowledge for christs sake"... Now, I feel I am accurate when I say "You are not a man of your word".

You apparently think everything is a personal attack.

You keep saying that you have answered some questions.. NO.. you have posted videos that gloss over the topic. This is not a proper way to answer a question.

I do not think you are dumb.. I do not think you are a mean person.. I just think that you have been brainwashed or are in the process of being brain washed.

Please bring this thread back to its intended topic and immediately cease an desist with the personal attacks.

This thread will be monitored closely.

Thank you.

GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

I didn't write the snippet I'm posting, at the bottom...wish I had. Sums up my opinion of those so-called "experts" perfectly. You see, regardless of their numbers of hours, or numbers of airplanes flown, or admission to "Top Gun", etc....they are ALL "stepping up" for reasons other than "truth". They KNOW that the tens of thousands of OTHER pilots just laugh at (or cringe) at them, and their "claims". [snip]

But the membership includes people like

Paul Welton Aerospace Manufacturing Engineer Companies Worked: Boeing 1981 to 1985 USAF Comments: I was a autopilot and instrument mechanic while in the USAF. I worked on the following aircraft; A-10, C-130, and F4's while in the military. After the military I went to college and got my AA in Electronics. I worked for Boeing from 1989 until 1996 both as a flight line electrician in 747 Delivery and as an manufacturing engineer. I have since started my own contract manufacturing engineering firm and have operated it for over 10 years. I've basically worked in on or around airplanes for almost 30 years.

and

Lionel A Smith Aircraft Artificer Engines and Airframes RN and Fleet Air Arm from July 1963 to July 1982 Five years of apprenticeship covering- fitting, welding, turning, brazing, sheet-metal work in light alloys, steels, titanium, workshop technologies and engineering drawing, non-destructive testing, thorough study of airframe and aero-engine mechanisms, structures and systems, aircraft finishes. Study to A level standard in Mathematics, Aeronautical Engineering Science, Applied Mechanics (Aircraft), Engineering Drawing (advanced level). Service experience: Sea Vixens FAW 1 and 2 - 766 Squadron and 893 Squadron including HMS Victorious. Hunter GA11, PR10/11, T8 and also Meteor T7 and NF11, Vampire T22, Sea Prince, Swordfish, Tiger Moth. Phantom F4K 892 Squadron and Ark Royal. Trials installation unit (9 years) including designing manufacturing fitting (using most skills learned under training) and documentation of role change modifications to Canberra T22, Hunters T8 and GA11 - PR10/11, Sea King, Sea Devon, Sea Heron, Wasp, Wessex, Lynx. Post RN - 4 year degree course BEd (Hons 2:1) in Maths and Science covering many aspects including calculus (again), Stats, functions and graphs, sets and modular arithmetic, computer architecture and BASIC programming (taken to machine code and assembler on own volition in spare time - skills learned used during a contract programming period 89-90, weather and climate, chemistry (varied aspects including crystallography) and quantum mechanics, other earth sciences, magnetism.

These are not people that would wreck their careers and reputation by putting their name to something that they couldn't back up.

What they are saying only confirms what I already thought. No way could these Hijackers have piloted a 767-200 past it's operating limites and aim with perfect accuracy to hit the twin towers... Yet they according to the OS did this twice... then again according to the OS for a third time into the pentagon...

all the evidence says it's impossible... the only evidence that says it happened was the media footage.... The eye witness reports are confusing because there are many reports saying it was not a normal comercial plane or a small plane... and then some that say they recall a commercial plane.

But as you have already pointed out, most people would not be able to certain by looks alone what the plane was i.e. a 767 or 757 or?? What a layperson would know though would be to compare it to what they do know of what a commercial plane looked like or the size of it.

And as you can see and hear from my vid footage earlier this is exactly the type of observation you have from people as it happened.... "a small plane" "that was not a normal plane" etc...

Through a process of deduction you can understand that however crazy it may sound, if a 767-200 couldn't make the maneuvers necessary especially at the hands of rookie pilot, along with anomalies in the actual eye witness reports, then on top the crazy demolition.... not to mention the white elephant that is the pentagon and WT7.... you can deduce that the video footage supporting the OS must be doctored.

So then looking at the vid footage with a critical eye looking for anomalies is a logical step.

But just like criminals that are arrested years later when new tech allows the crime to be solved, as will happen with 911. No crime is perfect and 911 was riddled with holes... If anything it's a miracle they managed to pull the wool over the eyes of so many for so long.

I wonder if the reason so many are still fooled is that they are scared to contemplate what it would mean if it was an inside job. That the American Government willingly allowed or actually committed mass murder on home ground.

Korg.