The Sphinx Origins and a Final Link to Pre-Dynastic Egypt

Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by Harte

 

yeah that quote was speculation on my part, although no need to get personal. But i stand by the rest of this thread.
Scott has a good point, although i am no the most religious person, people read the bible and take it for granted thaat many parts are true and did actualyy happen. But yet because the Stela is Egyptian are you saying it is wrong or that they couldnt keep records at that point in time. The library of Alexandria was an amazing place with thousands of years of history, supposedly. Although it has all been lost due to the stupidity of later generations and people.

The Library of Alexandria wasn't founded until Egypt became Greek - with the conquest by Alexander (thus the name.) The Library was a Greek library. If any information had been in there from Khufu's time, what would it have been written on?

There was no ancient Egyptian material in the Library. That is, there is absolutely no reason to believe that there was.

Many copies were made of materials in the Library, many times over.
In fact, practically everything in it was copied. The materials were confiscated under the guise of making copies for the Library. The copies were made, yes, but it was the copies that were returned to the owners - not the originals that had been "borrowed."

The point being- very little, if any, of the materials in that Library vanished with it's destruction (which happened in the Common Era, BTW.) All the materials we don't have today were lost in the interim. You know, like during the Dark Ages, etc.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


How can you be sure of that, have actually ever studied or done any reading watsoever about the library?

Here is just one quote, and i do apologise to large amount of quotes i have added lately but i am being asked questions that the information and answers to are freely available online.

That library, of course, was the Great Library of Alexandria, a public library open to those with the proper scholarly and literary qualifications, founded about 300bc. When Egypt's King Ptolemy I (305-282bc) asked, "How many scrolls do we have?", Aristotle's disciple Demetrius of Phalerum was on hand to answer with the latest count. After all, it was Demetrius who suggested setting up a universal library to hold copies of all the books in the world. Ptolemy and his successors wanted to understand the people under their rule and house Latin, Buddhist, Persian, Hebrew, and Egyptian works - translated into Greek.

www.history-magazine.com...


So firstly in 300BC Egypt was still an independent state compared to Rome/Greece. Also take special note to the above quote. Also apart from reading online or from other spurces are you saying that a library in Alexandria, Egypt had no works or content from Egypt?
That is like saying the State Library of Victoria ( my state in Aus ) has no information about Australia in it....???

reply to post by Byrd


ok but i just to point out this part again:

''Now of these terms those which are constituted by the Egyptian
method are, as we said, more worthy of credence, both because in
the form in which they have been collected hy the Egyptian writers
they have for their utility been deemed worthy of record, and
because for the most part the degrees of these terms are consistent
with the nativities which have been recorded by them as examples.
As these very writers, however, nowhere explain their arrangement
or their number, their failure to agree in an account of the system
might well become an object of suspicion and a subject for criticism.
Recently. however, we have come upon an ancient manuscript,
much damaged, which contains a natural and consistent explanation
Tetrabiblos
of their order and number, and at the same time the degrees
reported in the aforesaid nativities and the numbers given in the
summations were found to agree with the tabulation of the ancients.
The hook was very lengthy in expression and excessive in
demonstration, and its damaged state made it hard to read, so that I
could harely gain an idea of its general purport; that too, in spite of
the help offered hy the tabulations of the terms, better preserved
because they were placed at the end of the book. At any rate the
general scheme of assignment of the terms is as follows. For their
arrangement within each sign, the exaltations, triplicities, and
houses are taken into consideration. ''

reply to post by Harte


I just wanted to add a couple of clips i found in regard to Alexandria, ill admit it doesnt have a direct link to this thread, i thought it was great and worth sharing:





Part 2 is on youtube ( related page )

Also this one looks ok as well: www.youtube.com...

Please also take the time to watch this: Ancient Egypt The Ultra Gods ( part 1 )

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Are you serious? Yes ok the Sun always rises in the East and sets in the West but the constellations change depending on your Geo location, you understand that yeah?

Look just input the GPS location of Giza compared to whereever yoy are and look at the same times in history.
Look at Australia, the southern cross is a big constellation for us, it's on our flag! but can you see it?

Seriously look at the GPS of Giza in that timeframe please!

reply to post by Byrd


So you ask for a link to the Greco/roman era, i give it to you and you are still questioning it? Ptolemy spent most of his life in Egypt writing theories that would last for over 1000 years, you dont think there is chance he took information that was alreayd well know in Egypt? It is a perfect link, and fits in well.

Look at the quotes and snippets from the ancient texts, he was already using Ancient Egyptian texts as certain references, he may have modified their writings and beleifs but he did use theirs as comparison. They took older knowledge and claimed it as thier own as with many invaders and rulers over history.

reply to post by Byrd


Come on Bird, you have to admit this, over the ages the people in power distort and change facts to suit their agenda yes? For people and so called scholars in roman and Greek times in the time that Egypt was taken over and so called Pagan worship was oppressed, do you think it may have been convienient to take knowledge and pass it off as their own invention or discovery rather than gove an ancient civilisation credit for it. It happens time and time agin in our past as a Human species and is a disgrace. The RC church wrote off many books of the bible to suit their own agenda in the time of constatine. It happened before and has happened since. We are the public and to those that have poer generation after genration know it and laugh at us.

WE believ we are electing people under a democracy but yet wehn people put forward credible evidence that the opposite we go into denial, or skeptics try to push and push because they are either part of the cover up or totally in denial and wont listen to anyone or do their own research. It is happening today and has happened over histiry, the only difference today is that you will be locked up for protesting and not bunred at the stack or stoned to death!

I love this THREAD!!

Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by Harte

 

How can you be sure of that, have actually ever studied or done any reading watsoever about the library?

Yes, Harte can be pretty sure of that, since he's done some reading on it. We've had a number of interesting discussions and research on the Library over the years, here at ATS.

Here is just one quote, and i do apologise to large amount of quotes i have added lately but i am being asked questions that the information and answers to are freely available online.

That library, of course, was the Great Library of Alexandria, a public library open to those with the proper scholarly and literary qualifications, founded about 300bc. When Egypt's King Ptolemy I (305-282bc) asked, "How many scrolls do we have?", Aristotle's disciple Demetrius of Phalerum was on hand to answer with the latest count. After all, it was Demetrius who suggested setting up a universal library to hold copies of all the books in the world. Ptolemy and his successors wanted to understand the people under their rule and house Latin, Buddhist, Persian, Hebrew, and Egyptian works - translated into Greek.

Ah... the idea that the Ptolemies wanted to understand the people under their rule doesn't actually hold up. The only one of his successors who ever managed to speak Egyptian was Cleopatra VII. The rest of them spoke Greek and insisted their courts speak Greek. They'd order scribes to turn their proclimations into Egyptian but their idea was to Hellenize the country. But it was their job to make sure that the Egyptians became "Civilized Greeks"... they weren't anthropologists who were interested in preserving culture. They made a number of changes, including changing deities (the incident of the Apis bulls is one of them) and so forth.

So firstly in 300BC Egypt was still an independent state compared to Rome/Greece.

Actually, Egypt was a client state under Greece. Rome was independent and starting to make a power play in the region. Egypt had been in decline since a series of disastrous wars following the death of Psamminik (600 BC); a ruler who had briefly pulled them out of the mire they were slipping into.

Also take special note to the above quote. Also apart from reading online or from other spurces are you saying that a library in Alexandria, Egypt had no works or content from Egypt?

Nobody knows for sure... BUT... we do know that Anthony's gift to Cleopatra on their wedding was 1,000 scrolls for the library (not from Egypt) and that any ship which docked in Alexandria was searched for books and the books were confiscated and copied.

None of those ships would have been from Egypt.

Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by Byrd

 

Come on Bird, you have to admit this, over the ages the people in power distort and change facts to suit their agenda yes?

Always, but there are certain things that don't lie... like the condition of bones and the position of temples and jewelry with names on it... many things don't distort, but actually uncover distortion.

For people and so called scholars in roman and Greek times in the time that Egypt was taken over and so called Pagan worship was oppressed, do you think it may have been convienient to take knowledge and pass it off as their own invention or discovery rather than gove an ancient civilisation credit for it.

Uhm... Greeks and Romans of the time were also "Pagans." Rome was probably the most broad-minded city as far as religion was concerned, since you could find temples to every conceivable god there in the city... Roman and non-Roman. Greece was also Pagan, worshiping a fairly large pantheon. The rulers did try to incorporate some of the Egyptian gods (Hermes Trismigestus was one) and they liked some of the imagery and used it as well (Isis and baby Horus was very popular.) So, everybody was Pagan until the Christian religion rose to prominence and declared all polytheists to be heretics and pagans.

As to "passing off" inventions and discoveries, there's no evidence. If someone makes a discovery (say, how to make copper wire) and it becomes part of the original culture (they make jewelry involving copper wire threads or lay telephone lines or whatever), another culture can come along and claim it but the original evidence (copper wire jewelry and so forth) shows up in the first civilization at a later time.

So, we know from the Rhind mathematical papyrus what scribes had to study to be able to serve as scribes (and how they made their calculations.) We know from the Kahun, Smith, and Ebers papyri what medical treatments the Egyptians were using and how they did surgery. We can compare this with known formulas from other civilizations of the area and with bodies of people who went through surgeries.

There's evidence all around, but you have to timeline match and location match to see the big picture.

The RC church wrote off many books of the bible to suit their own agenda in the time of constatine.

Just a quick correction.... there wasn't a Bible before 300 AD. People had all sorts of religious books that they used in Christian worship.

Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by Byrd

 

So you ask for a link to the Greco/roman era, i give it to you and you are still questioning it?

Actually, I asked for material that was NOT from the Greco-Roman era. The Tetrabiblios was about prophecy (astrology: pathguy.com... ) -- and I think you are confusing Ptolemies. Claudius Ptolemy (the one who wrote Tetrabiblios) was a Roman citizen who lived in Alexandria (90 AD to 168 AD -- en.wikipedia.org...) and should not be confused with the rulers of Egypt who lived 300 BC to 0 AD.

Ptolemy spent most of his life in Egypt writing theories that would last for over 1000 years, you dont think there is chance he took information that was alreayd well know in Egypt? It is a perfect link, and fits in well.

I don't know where he got his information from. The Library was supposedly destroyed before that (according to one account) and your own quote shows that he takes material and throws away that which does not agree with his ideas.

Look at the quotes and snippets from the ancient texts, he was already using Ancient Egyptian texts as certain references, he may have modified their writings and beleifs but he did use theirs as comparison. They took older knowledge and claimed it as thier own as with many invaders and rulers over history.

He doesn't say how old the material is that he found, and we have to trust that he wasn't just making it up to add weight to his words. The fact that he references things in the Greek/Roman system and not in Egyptian decans makes it likely that his "ancient" was no older than 200-500 years old. The Egyptians certainly didn't use astrology until the Greek rulers introduced it.

reply to post by Byrd


ok so i only to go over all of your replies breifly, so what as soon as find a link to Egypt you find something else to disagree with yes?

You asked for proof or something that linked Egypt to the Roman beliefs etc etc. I gave you the above links and many quotes as it was easy to find and still fits in. Ptolemy wrote all his works regarding Astrology, Astronomy and many other things and i found the link that he was a citizen of Egypt and spent much of his life their and yet you still cant see the link or the chance of a link. As soon as i provide what you ask and do your homework for you, you still argue the point? how did you actually become a moderator on this site?

It seems all the moderators here, on a site dedicated to alternative beleifs etc are against all of the theories put forward by members. I see it in every thread in every subject? So what is ATS then, i contradiction of it's original purpose? It seems that way becasue every moderator seems to disagree with most positive members.

You asked for a link and i gave it to you, you knew it was there and could have looked it up and posted it yourself but you didnt. As soon as i did you realised i know how to actually look things up and found the next thing to disagree with. I am not going to releat myself as i have done that twice now, if you cannot see the link then i am sorry but please do not continue to add to the conversation.

Obviously you are going to continue to try and debunk / oppose the issue. I find what u ask and you find something else, perhaps you also need to study and read for yourself before arguing issues that i have already found links to.

So you are saying all the quotes and all the links mean nothing that he made it up, that he didny use ancient Egyptian method to compare to his own for the constellations, it is in black and white, read the whole book if you need to, i did!

Also are you sure Harte is correct, perhaps you nee to read my reply in full and also follow the links to information the Library of Alexandria. Are you sure there was no Egyptian Works or history in that library? that is what you are saying in agreeing woth Harte.
So one of the most famous and influential libraries in history, located in Alexandria, Egypt and you are saying there was no trace of Egyptian history contained within, in all the 700,000 Papyrus scrolls, that none of them related to Egypt?

Perhaps you still havent read the quotes from The Tetrabiblos. Written in that time. Ok so Romans were Pagans wre they? Try telling that to the RC church. Look at what happened to Hypatia and so on and on. Have you actually read the Tetrabiblos, it is not about prophecy but about science and it lasted untill the dark ages untill it was lost for another 6-700 years. The medical Journals lasted untill the renoisance period untill it was updated.

I should be the one saying deny ignorance!

That library, of course, was the Great Library of Alexandria, a public library open to those with the proper scholarly and literary qualifications, founded about 300bc. When Egypt's King Ptolemy I (305-282bc) asked, "How many scrolls do we have?",...

(Havick007) So firstly in 300BC Egypt was still an independent state compared to Rome/Greece...

Probably should have stopped yourself right there, and do a little research on any Egyptian sporting the name "Ptolemy".

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


I have actually. So what is your point? ok so have you read through the thread? You wil see alot of links and quotes, as i said i rather not post so much quoted content but well other people cant seem to do their own work.

Do you know much about Ptolemy?

Lets see here we go again....

en.wikipedia.org...

Claudius Ptolemaeus (Greek: Κλαύδιος Πτολεμαῖος Klaúdios Ptolemaîos; c. AD 90 – c. 168), known in English as Ptolemy (pronounced /ˈtɒləmɪ/), was a Roman citizen of Egypt who wrote in Greek.[1] He was a mathematician, astronomer, geographer, astrologer and a poet of a single epigram in the Greek Anthology.[2][3] He lived in Egypt under Roman rule, and is believed to have been born in the town of Ptolemais Hermiou in the Thebaid. He died in Alexandria around AD 168.[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

The Ptolemaic dynasty, (Ancient Greek: Πτολεμαῖοι, sometimes also known as the Lagids, Ancient Greek: Λαγίδαι, from the name of Ptolemy I's father, Lagus) was a Greek[1][2][3][4] royal family which ruled the Ptolemaic Empire in Egypt during the Hellenistic period. Their rule lasted for 275 years, from 305 BC to 30 BC.

So again i ask what is your point?

I will add more just to be sure though, i know it's hard for some to understand history

Ptolemy's treatise on astrology, known in Greek as both the Apotelesmatika ("Astrological Outcomes" or "Effects") and "Tetrabiblios" ("Four Books"), and in Latin as the Quadripartitum ("Four books"), was the most popular astrological work of antiquity and also had great influence in the Islamic world and the medieval Latin West. It was first translated from Arabic into Latin by Plato of Tivoli (Tiburtinus), while he was in Spain (FA Robbins, 1940; Thorndike 1923). The Tetrabiblos is an extensive and continually reprinted treatise on the ancient principles of horoscopic astrology in four books (Greek tetra means "four", biblos is "book"). That it did not quite attain the unrivaled status of the Almagest was perhaps because it did not cover some popular areas of the subject, particularly electional astrology (interpreting astrological charts for a particular moment to determine the outcome of a course of action to be initiated at that time), and medical astrology, which were later adoptions.

I dont enjoy having to copy and paste constantly incase anyone is wondering....


also at this point in time, the Egyptian people still accepted that empire as their own. The same can be said for Aelxander the great, he supposedly had adream that Ra come to him or was embracing his mother, this symoblised to the Egyptian people he was the son of a god and became a ruler of Egypt. It wasnt untill after the Ptolemaic empire that Egypt was completly ruled by Rome in the Roman/Byzantine Empire starting in 30 BC which in turn led to a Christian Egypt and all pagan symbolism and worship basically outlawed.

As I read your post it seemed as though you were alluding Egypt under the Ptolemys were free from influence of the Greeks, "still independent of Greece and Rome", as you put it. The Ptolemys were Greeks and the impetus for the creation of the library. Of course over time the bloodlines mixed but the cultural influences from the Greeks would remain. It was just a little something that I felt needed to be pointed out.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


no no i do understand what you were saying and yes i do understand that Ptolemy or even the name i would not have originated in Egypt. At that time it was still independent under Rome, although there was some Persian influence as well.
But this is starting to drift off topic. My main point to start with was in reply to previous comments about the library. Also links from possible ancient Egypt to more modern approaches to Astrology.

Originally posted by Havick007
How can you be sure of that, have actually ever studied or done any reading watsoever about the library?

Why would I even post about it if I hadn't done some?

Here is just one quote, and i do apologise to large amount of quotes i have added lately but i am being asked questions that the information and answers to are freely available online.

Quotes and links are welcome and rare around here.

That library, of course, was the Great Library of Alexandria, a public library open to those with the proper scholarly and literary qualifications, founded about 300bc. When Egypt's King Ptolemy I (305-282bc) asked, "How many scrolls do we have?", Aristotle's disciple Demetrius of Phalerum was on hand to answer with the latest count. After all, it was Demetrius who suggested setting up a universal library to hold copies of all the books in the world. Ptolemy and his successors wanted to understand the people under their rule and house Latin, Buddhist, Persian, Hebrew, and Egyptian works - translated into Greek.

www.history-magazine.com...

So firstly in 300BC Egypt was still an independent state compared to Rome/Greece.

Maybe I should ask you your own question.

See, your own quote mentions King Ptolemy 1. You appear to have no idea that he was Greek. In fact, as a trusted aide, he was put in place as Egyptian King by the Greek Alexander (you know, "the great?")

Everything I said about the Library is true, as far as I have ascertained. Of course, if you can contradict something I've said regarding the Library, please do so (you know, with scholarly quotes and links - not some wild-eyed fringe claims.)

Also take special note to the above quote. Also apart from reading online or from other spurces are you saying that a library in Alexandria, Egypt had no works or content from Egypt?
That is like saying the State Library of Victoria ( my state in Aus ) has no information about Australia in it....???

No it's not.

How many tomes in your library were written by the Aborigines? I mean written, not "interpreted" from them by whitey.

Khufu predated the Library by 2300 years. How old is the oldest book in your library?

Harte

hmmm ok.


So Alexander appointed him? No, after Alexanders death he was then appointed Satrap of Egypt

Satrap (Persian: ساتراپ) was the name given to the governors of the provinces of the ancient Median and Achaemenid (Persian) Empires and in several of their successors, such as the Sassanid Empire and the Hellenistic empires.

The word satrap is also often used in modern literature to refer to world leaders or governors who are heavily influenced by larger world superpowers or hegemonies and act as their surrogates.

Courtesy : en.wikipedia.org...

Yes i am aware that Ptolemy was Greek not Egyptian born. Also how can you be certain what was in that library, i also admit i cannot be certain, however do you realise that in that time they collected documents, scolls and books from all over the world as they knew it and copied them, however they returned the copies to their original owners and kept the orignals on many occasions.

Egypt was still an independant state untill Roman rule in 30BC - Reference

also when i say independant state, it all comes down to the beleifs of the locals -

'' Alexander advanced on Egypt in later 332 BC, where he was regarded as a liberator.[84] He was pronounced the new "master of the Universe" and son of the deity of Amun at the Oracle of Siwa Oasis in the Libyan desert.[85] Henceforth, Alexander often referred to Zeus-Ammon as his true father, and subsequent currency depicted him adorned with ram horns as a symbol of his divinity.[86][87] During his stay in Egypt, he founded Alexandria-by-Egypt, which would become the prosperous capital of the Ptolemaic kingdom after his death.[88]

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Fringe claims??? So what then, saying that a library in Alexandria, didnt have any Epytian history in it? You need to read more.


Also just wanted to add -

''It was Rome that eventually spelled the loss of Egyptian independence. Cleopatra VII enlisted Roman support in her own dynastic struggles and fell in love with two of the most glamorous generals, Julius Caesar and Mark Antony[1]. When the latter lost the civil war with Octavian in 30BC, Cleopatra killed herself and after heavy fighting in two wars[2] Alexandria became the second city of the Roman Empire. The city’s history remained turbulent with a Jewish rebellion in AD116[3], a massacre by Caracalla in AD215[4] while in AD273 the city was sacked when it sided against the Emperor Aurelian who reduced the palace quarter to rubble[5]. It was also attacked and badly damaged by Diocletian a couple of decades later[6].''

Heres some good info: www.bede.org.uk...

Hopefully not to fringe for you.....

'

Originally posted by Havick007
You asked for proof or something that linked Egypt to the Roman beliefs etc etc. I gave you the above links and many quotes as it was easy to find and still fits in. Ptolemy wrote all his works regarding Astrology, Astronomy and many other things and i found the link that he was a citizen of Egypt and spent much of his life their and yet you still cant see the link or the chance of a link. As soon as i provide what you ask and do your homework for you, you still argue the point?

Again, I asked for evidence astrology/astronomy was studied in Egypt BEFORE the time of the Ptolemies -- that they would have named our constellation "Leo" as a "sphynx" back in the time of Khufu.

So what is ATS then, i contradiction of it's original purpose?

Our motto is "deny ignorance." Everyone welcomes inquiries and ideas -- but after over 10 years in existence, the long-time members like to see some evidence backing up ideas. There IS an area for research where "anything goes" -- that's the Skunk Works area.

Most of the moderators here were promoted from "Subject Matter Expert" status (there's a lot of other things that are looked for in a moderator) -- so that means they've read a lot about the topic and have written a lot about it and are able to answer questions with links and references for people. Skyfloating is one who often posts (I disagree with him frequently, but as a moderator he's certainly an expert in his area (UFO studies) -- and I doubt any here would challenge that.)

So you are saying all the quotes and all the links mean nothing that he made it up, that he didny use ancient Egyptian method to compare to his own for the constellations, it is in black and white, read the whole book if you need to, i did!

I went back and looked at the star maps of the ancient Egyptians. Ptolemy is writing near the end of the 1st century AD (and over 100 years after the Library of Alexandria was destroyed (according to some ancient sources.) He may have been using sources from the books collected by Anthony and Cleopatra -- he didn't record the names of the books and writers he was studying.

So we have no real way of knowing.

Are you sure there was no Egyptian Works or history in that library?

We don't know what they kept. We do know that they demanded the "latest books" from civilizations around the Mediterranean. But there's no record of the full list of books in the library (and the scrolls listed as references in other writings don't seem to include a lot of Egyptian works.) I do know that Manetho MAY have used the library for reference... but he didn't say what he read there.

In any case, what we were pointing out is that there is no evidence that the Library of Alexandria included scroll books that dated from the time of Khufu and Unas.

Ok so Romans were Pagans wre they?

They worshiped Jupiter and Juno and Ceres and Minerva and had shrines to all those and many more. They also worshiped the ancestors (lares) and venerated demigods. I believe that makes them pagan, wouldn't it?

Try telling that to the RC church.

The Roman Catholic church formed in 300 AD. That's long after the burning of the library by Caesar, and 200 years after the death of the Roman Ptolemy.

Have you actually read the Tetrabiblos, it is not about prophecy

It's actually astrology. The first sentence of the book's introduction says "OF the means of prediction through astronomy, "

Prediction = prophecy. In section 3, he discusses the idea that prognostication (foretelling the events of a person's life through astrology) is beneficial and section 4, of course, is "the power of the planets." His ideas became the basis of what was known in Europe as Medical Astrology (not astronomy.)

He does say "the Egyptians have entirely united medicine with astronomical prediction" -- BUT -- when we look at old Egyptian papyri (such as the Ebers Papyrus (1500 BC... about halfway between the time of Khufu and the pyramids to Ptolemy)), we don't see them linking the stars and planets with diseases. We see spells against diseases (charms and amulets), we see potions and surgery and herbs. No planets and no constellations mentioned.

So tying the constellation "Leo" in with anything the Egyptians did before 400 BC doesn't work. They didn't see a constellation of a lion in the sky where we see Leo (nor did they see a sphynx.) The idea that the sphynx has any relationship to the constellation the Romans called "Leo" doesn't hold up.

reply to post by Byrd


Seriously come on, first you have compiled so many replies to different statements in one post it is hard to keep up so here we go and i will try to respond to every quote etc.

First and foremost ATS and the deny ignorance statement. Well yes but if you are suggesting this thread belongs in the skunkworks you are crazy man seriously. What is fact? You tell me?

How is fact discovered and then translated as fact to following generations.. i dont want to sound philisophic here but fact is derived from investigation and study. The whole pyramid and shpinx story is full of heresay and opposing opinions between geologists, historians, archiologists and many alike in similar but different fields. One cannot agree with the other. Ancient documents contradict geological fact but because written records that are in many cases obscure are still taken in fact rather the geology there is constant contradiction of supposed ''evidence''

Have i not put forward an interesting argument? Certain things that match up with other current theories. Deny Ignorance? well stop contradicting yourself... seriously! This site has become a place of riticule rather than anything related to ATS work. I am yet to see a moderator actually put forward interesting articles or posts in reagrd to the purpose of this site. Yuo are nothing but a critic and contradict the original purpose of the site.

I am not gonna go much further because i have provided so many links, quotes, articles, explainations and pictures that it is a joke that you will not take me seriously and continue to challenge me.
dont get me wrong at the same time i welcome constructive critism and a challenge to my viewpoint which is another benefit of this site. Howver as soonas i submit a responce to ur questions you find something else to challenge ur disregard what i have posted.
Also you cllaimed to stand behind Harte and that you agree with them and then the next post you contradiict urself again.... yawn i would prefer some actual members to respond and contribute and perhaps even do some work and read