North Korea - Documentaries and Inside Footage (North Korea Desperately in Need of Forced Regime Cha

There is a great air of mystery surrounding North Korea. They live in a bubble almost untouched by the outside world. There is so much to talk about regarding North Korea, yet so little. What I mean is that there is enough scandal inside the country, known outside the country to talk about. But what about all the stuff we don't know about? North Korea takes secrecy and anonymity VERY seriously. I'm no expert on North Korea and not many people are so after a quick ATS Google search which didn't reveal much on the topic, I decided to make a thread and compile videos/documentaries about North Korea and any other decent resources I can find. The point of this thread is not so much to discuss what goes on inside of North Korea (Please feel free to discuss if need be) But to discuss whether or not a regime change would be acceptable and helpful to the people of the country. Please watch at least the first video.

Ok, so lets try and get an idea of what happens inside of this mysterious tyrannical nation.
Starting off with a BBC documentary;

Google Video Link

Now here is a Frontline documentary about North Korea's struggle for nuclear power;

Google Video Link

Now here is a video about the Korean war;

Google Video Link

To be honest, before watching these documentaries I thought that I would have a LOT to say on the matter, but I'm pretty speechless. I don't usually believe in forced regime change (Especially with all the scandal going on in the middle east) but I think that if carried out properly, a regime change would be good for the people of North Korea. Who although they may not know it, (having lived in a bubble their entire life) they are being cheated out of life.

So what do you lot think about a forced regime change in North Korea? I don't condone it but I certainly see how it could be for the better of the people if carried out properly.

Haven't had time to watch it but I will later. I've always been kind of curious to see what might go on there. Thanks for posting!

Originally posted by NWtoHide
Haven't had time to watch it but I will later. I've always been kind of curious to see what might go on there. Thanks for posting!

No problem mate.
I look forward to hearing what you have to say regarding the matter

As a non-interventionist I will make the statement that NK will either change or collapse of its own in due time. its human nature to want to change and move forward - NK has been static since a century. Getting to know simple things like the Internet will be a cultural shock for them. If there is any intervention at all, it should not be us "Liberating" them but South Korea. But I dont really believe in Intervention unless a critical mass of people call for it.

If we could diplomatically at least get Kim Ill Sung to cut the Gulag-Camp and forced labor crap, that would be a positive. Put some diplomatic pressure on him. Like all socialists, Kim Ill Sung is paranoid beyond belief and very difficult to make friends with.

Double post, please can you delete Skyfloating ... my bad

Originally posted by Skyfloating
As a non-interventionist I will make the statement that NK will either change or collapse of its own in due time. its human nature to want to change and move forward - NK has been static since a century. Getting to know simple things like the Internet will be a cultural shock for them. If there is any intervention at all, it should not be us "Liberating" them but South Korea. But I dont really believe in Intervention unless a critical mass of people call for it.

If we could diplomatically at least get Kim Ill Sung to cut the Gulag-Camp and forced labor crap, that would be a positive. Put some diplomatic pressure on him. Like all socialists, Kim Ill Sung is paranoid beyond belief and very difficult to make friends with.

Thanks for taking time to add some input Skyfloating. I also believe that some kind of revolution will take place in NK eventually. The problem is, how many more innocent North Koreans have to suffer before this happens? I definitely agree with you on the fact that if anyone should be liberating the people it should be South Korea, although I think that they would almost certainly be needed outside help from other countries.

In regards to getting Kim Ill Sung to stop the forced labour and other crimes against humanity using diplomatic pressure, I don't believe this would work. For instance, I believe that it would be possible to get some kind of agreement out of him but whether or not he would comply with that agreement I believe would be a completely different kettle of fish. I believe that the current government in NK will carry on committing crimes against humanity but just try and keep them more secret.

Thanks a lot for your input,

-TechUnique

A good idea in principle. Unfortunately there is no way to do it without an almighty bloodbath that makes the middle east look like a bar room brawl. I'm fairly pessimistic about NK. I don't think there is any way it can end well.

reply to post by justwokeup


It does appear that the tyranny is on an amazing level in NK. It would be great if there was some way of liberating the people of NK whilst minimizing the bloodshed most likely to occur. I think the bloodshed would probably be worth it for the people of NK in the future, although that is not my place to say as I am British and know almost nothing of the country, its people and how they feel with their current government. Very dodgy subject

Originally posted by TechUnique
its people and how they feel with their current government. Very dodgy subject

Nobody really knows how they feel about their Government. The few that have manged to escape through routes such as the river in the north, say its pretty bad.

Apparently, In the rare instances that a tourist gets in, they are not allowed to go anywhere or speak to anyone without the presence of a Government-assigned "tour guide".

I share your fascination with NK.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by TechUnique
its people and how they feel with their current government. Very dodgy subject

Nobody really knows how they feel about their Government. The few that have manged to escape through routes such as the river in the north, say its pretty bad.

Apparently, In the rare instances that a tourist gets in, they are not allowed to go anywhere or speak to anyone without the presence of a Government-assigned "tour guide".

I share your fascination with NK.

Speaking of the tour guides. My mother is Christian and one of the guys she knows from church has been all over Asia. He said that when he went to North Korea he was under CONSTANT surveillance by armed men. Only allowed to see model villages. If he tried to leave his hotel room unattended he would be "Politely" directed back to his room. It seems that there is a LOT that the NK government doesn't want us to know. It really tickles my curiosity.

So do you think that most North Koreans have almost no idea of how bad they have it compared to a lot of the world? I guess without something else to compare it to it is just normal life for them. I still don't think that this makes it in anyway fair and I still think change is direly needed.

Originally posted by TechUnique
So do you think that most North Koreans have almost no idea of how bad they have it compared to a lot of the world? I guess without something else to compare it to it is just normal life for them. I still don't think that this makes it in anyway fair and I still think change is direly needed.

I also figure that if you have no comparison, you are OK with it.

On the other hand, how can any human be OK with being deprived of freely travelling, visiting folks in SK, being critical of Government? I dont know.

I have no idea what Kim is thinking, if anything. Just where does he think he is taking his country? What does he think he is protecting them from?

Why does he have a Facebook page?

What do the NKs think the outside world is like? What are they told? What do they really think?

Is there any former NK resident ever online to share?

As if Korean mentality and history isnt already mysterious enough, NK adds even more weirdness to it.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by TechUnique
So do you think that most North Koreans have almost no idea of how bad they have it compared to a lot of the world? I guess without something else to compare it to it is just normal life for them. I still don't think that this makes it in anyway fair and I still think change is direly needed.

I also figure that if you have no comparison, you are OK with it.

On the other hand, how can any human be OK with being deprived of freely travelling, visiting folks in SK, being critical of Government? I dont know.

I have no idea what Kim is thinking, if anything. Just where does he think he is taking his country? What does he think he is protecting them from?

Why does he have a Facebook page?

What do the NKs think the outside world is like? What are they told? What do they really think?

Is there any former NK resident ever online to share?

As if Korean mentality and history isnt already mysterious enough, NK adds even more weirdness to it.

I'm sure alarm bells would be ringing for me if I was not allowed to leave the country under any circumstances. But maybe they are told that the rest of the world is like that, maybe they are told that they have it better than most. Who knows? That is what intrigues me about the subject.

Maybe Kim hopes for eventual destruction of the current PTB. Maybe running the world stage with China eventually? God only knows... and maybe the god in NK (Being the late Kim demi god of course)

It would definitely be great if there was a former NK resident signed up to ATS to give us their account. North Korea has always been one of those places that I long to know about ever since I heard about the bubble they live in.

I truly feel for their people, even if most are happy they deserve a chance at freedom.

Perhaps a meaningless anecdote.... perhaps what I had heard was propaganda, but nevertheless I will share it here to allow you to consider it:

While in South Korea, working with some veterans of the area, I was told that among the nursery rhymes that NK children learn in school is a catchy little 'ring around the rosey' type song which includes in the lyrics, the phrase "... and I hope to live long enough to kill a hundred yankees."

Now, this may be disinformation that was passed as urban legend in the area to local military types. Perhaps it was an exageration of some kind... on the other hand, I take it as likely truth.

What troubles me is the idea that children from the ages of 5 and up are taught to practically worship the image of their 'glorious leader' who at once is both a genius and a saint. They are taught that 'yankees' are as evil as evil can be.

Yet, how can any reasonable person not, as they mature, see reality for what it is and understand that their situation is one of utter social surrender? I understand your inclination to consider forced regime change as an option considering what we appear to know of the world according to NK. But these people must accept the mantle of change or anything brought from the outside will appear as oppressive imperialist action.... which is precisely what NK tells everyone in their country that is the intent of the US and most of the western world around them.

Given that the popular understanding will likely be that they are being 'invaded' or 'conquered' I expect them, as any patriot would, to fight to their last breath to resist it.

Perhaps part of the problem is that we consider 'totalitarianism' to be a legitimate form of government. Just as 'empire' is a legitimate corporate goal.... yet are they?

Originally posted by Maxmars
Perhaps a meaningless anecdote.... perhaps what I had heard was propaganda, but nevertheless I will share it here to allow you to consider it:

While in South Korea, working with some veterans of the area, I was told that among the nursery rhymes that NK children learn in school is a catchy little 'ring around the rosey' type song which includes in the lyrics, the phrase "... and I hope to live long enough to kill a hundred yankees."

Now, this may be disinformation that was passed as urban legend in the area to local military types. Perhaps it was an exageration of some kind... on the other hand, I take it as likely truth.

What troubles me is the idea that children from the ages of 5 and up are taught to practically worship the image of their 'glorious leader' who at once is both a genius and a saint. They are taught that 'yankees' are as evil as evil can be.

Yet, how can any reasonable person not, as they mature, see reality for what it is and understand that their situation is one of utter social surrender? I understand your inclination to consider forced regime change as an option considering what we appear to know of the world according to NK. But these people must accept the mantle of change or anything brought from the outside will appear as oppressive imperialist action.... which is precisely what NK tells everyone in their country that is the intent of the US and most of the western world around them.

Given that the popular understanding will likely be that they are being 'invaded' or 'conquered' I expect them, as any patriot would, to fight to their last breath to resist it.

Perhaps part of the problem is that we consider 'totalitarianism' to be a legitimate form of government. Just as 'empire' is a legitimate corporate goal.... yet are they?

You make some very good points, especially this part;

Given that the popular understanding will likely be that they are being 'invaded' or 'conquered' I expect them, as any patriot would, to fight to their last breath to resist it.

I believe this is exactly why they have been fed all this Anti-American and Anti-Outside-World propaganda and brainwashing since such an early age. I believe the NK government has known for a long time that the outside world will be shocked and disgusted about how they treat their citizens and these shocked people and nations, for the importance of mankind and human rights, want to do something about it. Of course, how better to stop someone from liberating your slaves other than getting the slaves to hate the potential liberators themselves? Its quite genius and yet so evil.

Perhaps part of the problem is that we consider 'totalitarianism' to be a legitimate form of government. Just as 'empire' is a legitimate corporate goal.... yet are they?

If only we lived in a world where decisions that matter were decided by the population as a whole... a real democracy. Pfft .. fat chance.

Found another documentary regarding North Korea;

Google Video Link

Another really interesting doco on North Korea is:

Don't Tell My Mother: I'm In North Korea

I cant find the full clip except in torrent form, but if you can track it down its WELL worth the watch - The dude goes to NK as a tourist. Quite fascinating really.

reply to post by ghostsoldier


I will look out for it and if you happen to stumble across it please post !

What do you have to say regarding a forced regime change in NK?

Thanks,

-TechUnique

reply to post by TechUnique


I think it would do more harm than good (hypothetically speaking that it wouldn't piss china off etc) I think it would be too much of a culture-shock for NK citizens - I saw a news piece (or it might of been a doco) on NK children who manage to escape over the border into South Korea - and it was a major thing to acclimatise them to life outside of NK, they had to go to a special school, they had to be deprogrammed, re-educated, brought up to speed, counseled etc etc etc. It would be a humanitarian disaster to do anything quick and sudden - I think gradualism is the way forward in this situation.



On a different tangent:

I had a thought the other day - about karma and reincarnation - and I got thinking, what if all the different nation states were places you got born into depending on your previous life.

For eg:
A filthy rich fat-cat exploitative capitalist - may be reborn as a poor african child in Uganda
and a corrupt TPTB type politician may be reborn as a child in north-korea.

Perhaps the soul needs to learn what the soul needs to learn, and some things have to be learnt in countries which we think should conduct themselves differently (which they should, and its inevitable they will), but how and when that takes place should be a soft-style approach, not a hard-style approach.

/0.02

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
reply to post by TechUnique

 

I think it would do more harm than good (hypothetically speaking that it wouldn't piss china off etc) I think it would be too much of a culture-shock for NK citizens - I saw a news piece (or it might of been a doco) on NK children who manage to escape over the border into South Korea - and it was a major thing to acclimatise them to life outside of NK, they had to go to a special school, they had to be deprogrammed, re-educated, brought up to speed, counseled etc etc etc. It would be a humanitarian disaster to do anything quick and sudden - I think gradualism is the way forward in this situation.

 

On a different tangent:

I had a thought the other day - about karma and reincarnation - and I got thinking, what if all the different nation states were places you got born into depending on your previous life.

For eg:
A filthy rich fat-cat exploitative capitalist - may be reborn as a poor african child in Uganda
and a corrupt TPTB type politician may be reborn as a child in north-korea.

Perhaps the soul needs to learn what the soul needs to learn, and some things have to be learnt in countries which we think should conduct themselves differently (which they should, and its inevitable they will), but how and when that takes place should be a soft-style approach, not a hard-style approach.

/0.02

That is a VERY interesting idea to me. I have thought about karma and reincarnation a lot and worried how the judgement side was carried out. Your idea seems very plausible

It would make a lot of sense if people who caused harm in another life had to endure hardships themselves in a country like NK or some countries in Africa (Depending on what they did in a previous life)

It would also make me feel a bit less guilty about not living somewhere like NK

How do you think the people of NK could be liberated in a slower more effective way? Its a real dilema but definitely worth discussing I think

reply to post by TechUnique


I dunno, I'm no expert, but I have an opinion on the way wars should be fought that may be applicable here also.

The UN should organise "cultural ambassadors" who are of the same race as the country they are trying to re-align, can speak the native language, have knowledge of its customs and religion and embed them into that country to teach and learn and work inside that country to build critical-mass for change.

Also send in technical experts in electricity, water, education, building, medicine, roads, environment, sewage, recycling, politics, industry, population etc etc etc - and have them teach and learn with the NK (for eg) equivalents and build from the inside-out, not the outside-in.

Also supply the country in question with what it lacks, if it needs energy - give them solar panels, if it needs medicine - give them the supplies needed etc

A range of Culture-Jamming initiatives could also be implemented - letter dropping, hacking television signals, underground media, etc etc (this should be done in a way that isn't obtuse.

Have this all being guarded by UN troops if need be.


I dunno, these are all just thought bubbles - but yeah.


How would you go about things?