10 Good Reasons It's Not Aliens

1.) Sightings of UFOs & nonhumans date back to BC, not 1947.

2.) Abductions by nonhumans date back to BC, not 1961.

3.) Given 1 & 2, 3 is interesting: abductions that involve reproductive purposes likewise date back to antiquity. So long Grays-need-our-genetic-material-to-seed-their-dying-race myth.

4.) Nonhumans never say anything humans can't know from reading texts by and/or talking to other humans. Shouldn't aliens at least know math? They seem to know English.

5.) Hypnotically retrieved abduction testimony is invalid. (See Dr. Scott Lilienfeld's work or the latest issue of UFO Magazine for more details.)

6.) The story of alien doctors was brought to you by hypnotists who conveniently left out any of the highly strange paranormal activity that concurrently showed up in their clients' lives.

7.) "The more you give, the more you get," as Jeff Ritzmann would say. Put another way, if you're an experiencer, whatever you think this phenomenon is gets reflected back at you. Think it's alien doctors? You get alien doctors. Think it's space brothers? You get space brothers. Think it's demons? You get that.

8.) Some "craft" have been reported to shape-shift.

9.) There are paranormal/UFO hot spots like Pine Bush, NY, Marley Woods, and the Skinwalker Ranch where everything from lemurs to bigfoot to fairies to aliens are reported.

10.) Because the tailor-made experiences of individual experiencers don't make any sense in the context of an alien program. For example, individuals can "call them in" for themselves but not for the population at large. Are there spaceships just sitting in the heavens waiting for us to meditate in the woods on them so they can burst through the clouds and wink a light at us? Do alien tax payer dollars fund this project? We always hear that they don't land because the public isn't ready. Clearly, individuals who call them in are ready. Why don't they land for those people? Why the theatrics?

Sorry, believers of the ETH. There will be no disclosure of a galactic federation waiting for us to grow acclimated to their presence in the foreseeable future. Just how long do nonhumans have to live here before we stop calling them alien anyway?

Very thought out. We would have surely found one by now if they are out their.

every one of your points could also be debunked orhave very valid arguments against, which i dont want to get intobecause its obvious by your post you are here for an argument or debate which i have no interest in because itsplainly obvious you are wrong and there are interplanetary or interdimensional beings here on earth. cheers.

I agree. Well thought out. Was wondering if these are your thoughts or if you simply forgot to give credit to the person who these thought belong to.

Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
1.) Sightings of UFOs & nonhumans date back to BC, not 1947.
Many people believe that ufo's have been around that long not just started in 1947. Perhaps you are new to ufology.
2.) Abductions by nonhumans date back to BC, not 1961.
See comment on 1
3.) Given 1 & 2, 3 is interesting: abductions that involve reproductive purposes likewise date back to antiquity. So long Grays-need-our-genetic-material-to-seed-their-dying-race myth.
See comment on 1
4.) Nonhumans never say anything humans can't know from reading texts by and/or talking to other humans. Shouldn't aliens at least know math? They seem to know English.
Who says they don't know math...these are some weird views as to why they are not aliens..no offense
5.) Hypnotically retrieved abduction testimony is invalid. (See Dr. Scott Lilienfeld's work or the latest issue of UFO Magazine for more details.)
I'll give you that one

6.) The story of alien doctors was brought to you by hypnotists who conveniently left out any of the highly strange paranormal activity that concurrently showed up in their clients' lives.
????
7.) "The more you give, the more you get," as Jeff Ritzmann would say. Put another way, if you're an experiencer, whatever you think this phenomenon is gets reflected back at you. Think it's alien doctors? You get alien doctors. Think it's space brothers? You get space brothers. Think it's demons? You get that.
Jeff Ritzman's theory and again it's a theory...
8.) Some "craft" have been reported to shape-shift.
We have f14 tomcats that shape shift to a degree why is out of the realm that someone more intelligent couldn't work more effectively?
9.) There are paranormal/UFO hot spots like Pine Bush, NY, Marley Woods, and the Skinwalker Ranch where everything from lemurs to bigfoot to fairies to aliens are reported.
Yes and there are people who think the world is going to end in 2012...does this mean everyone else who may see something is wrong. Do you dismiss thousands of witnesses including military personnel, pilots and air traffic controllers as to be full of it because some people believe in bigfood and fairies.
10.) Because the tailor-made experiences of individual experiencers don't make any sense in the context of an alien program. For example, individuals can "call them in" for themselves but not for the population at large. Are there spaceships just sitting in the heavens waiting for us to meditate in the woods on them so they can burst through the clouds and wink a light at us? Do alien tax payer dollars fund this project? We always hear that they don't land because the public isn't ready. Clearly, individuals who call them in are ready. Why don't they land for those people? Why the theatrics?
Because just like politics people exploit things for personal gain..why would you even ask such a question.

Sorry, believers of the ETH. There will be no disclosure of a galactic federation waiting for us to grow acclimated to their presence in the foreseeable future. Just how long do nonhumans have to live here before we stop calling them alien anyway?

The only galatic federation that I know of is on star trek...people thought the world was flat my friend stop being so close minded and come up with some better statements to defend your opinion and don't be so condescending either it cheapens your post.

Why make this thread if Aliens don't exist? We have Space. We have always looked into Space. We've always thought what else could be out there? Are you saying we've been completely wrong and stupid this entire time? That is perposteruous! You seem to be a victim of the marketing...

Everyone is entitled to believe what ever they wish.
Wouldn't it be funny if you were wrong?
Wouldn't it be funny if I was wrong?
Wouldn't it be funny if everyone was wrong?
What's not funny is, no one's laughing anymore.

As far back as you go in our history, there are instances that qualify as pertinent.
I guess we know ourselves well enough to know that we are and always have been in control of our own evolution. Right?

Is that a valid argument for existance? Of course not.
Believe what you want because trying to convince anyone else one way or another isn't going to work.

reply to post by VeniVidi


That's cute but no. They are my own.

Originally posted by chrismarco
The only galatic federation that I know of is on star trek...people thought the world was flat my friend stop being so close minded and come up with some better statements to defend your opinion and don't be so condescending either it cheapens your post.

Speaking of being open-minded, did you actually read the entire post or did you only read the headline before you replied. Vaeni did not say there was nothing to the UFO phenomenon...

Originally posted by dades
every one of your points could also be debunked orhave very valid arguments against, which i dont want to get intobecause its obvious by your post you are here for an argument or debate which i have no interest in because itsplainly obvious you are wrong and there are interplanetary or interdimensional beings here on earth. cheers.

What a cogent, well-thought out and convincing argument.

I don't think you actually bothered to read Vaeni's post either.

Alien is just a word...

You are an alien, I am an alien,
every single thing on this planet could be labelled an alien.. you dont realize that to say aliens dont exist is like saying 'la la la i cant hear you' even though if you just shush up and open your eyes you see that you were never 'alone in the dark'

We never have been alone, 'we' meaning human-kind i guess. the thing is that there is hundreds of millions of years of lost earth-history.. not lost, but hidden and buried from our awareness for now. But although nothing lasts forever, nothing is lost.

reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni


Just two points you made that i want to maybe open a discusion on.

1. Sightings of UFO's date back to BC not 1947.
2. Abductions by non humans date back to BC not 1941.

These would appear to contradict your statement because if UFO's and abductions were happening long before we even had electricity. Then what was the cause?

reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni

Hiya Jeremy, it's an interesting post with some 'good points' worth thinking about. Sorry about the long reply, but I ended up responding to each point and offering some alternative perspectives. There aren't many 'rights' or 'wrongs' in the discussion about UFO phenomena, but a lot of possibilities...

1.) Sightings of UFOs & nonhumans date back to BC, not 1947.

2.) Abductions by nonhumans date back to BC, not 1961.

3.) Given 1 & 2, 3 is interesting: abductions that involve reproductive purposes likewise date back to antiquity. So long Grays-need-our-genetic-material-to-seed-their-dying-race myth.

UFO sightings will go as far back as humans had sight and the ability to misunderstand their environment. Whether the UFO sightings are comparable to 20th Century structured craft or apparently intelligently moving lights can only be guessed at. I know it's popular to see 'UFO's in old religious texts or in folklore and mythology, but can we rule out the possibility that modern minds are projecting modern concepts on old text?

The non-humans and abduction scenarios are again modern projections in my opinion. Fairy-lore and changelings are more likely to be superstitions and tall tales than real case histories. We know that many of the myths have descended from anthropomorphic gods and spirits from pre-Christianity. How can we be sure that they have imaginative origins and relate to 'gods?' We can look at the myths and beliefs of Amazonian/Papua New Guinea tribes and see similar themes. Tree spirits, water spirits etc etc

4.) Nonhumans never say anything humans can't know from reading texts by and/or talking to other humans. Shouldn't aliens at least know math? They seem to know English.

5.) Hypnotically retrieved abduction testimony is invalid. (See Dr. Scott Lilienfeld's work or the latest issue of UFO Magazine for more details.)

Totally agree with #4! It's true that there's never/rarely any information to confirm the existence of critters/beings from 'elsewhere.' They could offer the proof of Goldbach's Conjecture or perhaps the formula for a novel plastic? Neither of which would profoundly effect humanity, but could at least make a witness/claimant's account more interesting or plausible. As for hypnosis? It's a murky business and the 'abduction' proponents like Bud Hopkins are more than likely self-selecting clients from people who themselves have been drawn to Hopkins due to a predisposition to the themes he presents. Kinda like a feedback loop...If there's a signal in there, we need to identify the noise.

6.) The story of alien doctors was brought to you by hypnotists who conveniently left out any of the highly strange paranormal activity that concurrently showed up in their clients' lives.

7.) "The more you give, the more you get," as Jeff Ritzmann would say. Put another way, if you're an experiencer, whatever you think this phenomenon is gets reflected back at you. Think it's alien doctors? You get alien doctors. Think it's space brothers? You get space brothers. Think it's demons? You get that.

I hadn't thought about this before, but yeah! Ever since Villa-Boas, the hypnotised have presented accounts of sex and medical procedures. I'm open to what the abduction experience represents and quite curious too. Maybe there's a reality behind the medical claims? I don't know. Number 7 is a point close to my heart since my late teens. People who believe in ghosts have paranormal experiences relating to ghosts. People who believe in synchronicity see patterns relating to their lives. People who believe in satan see his influence in all things. Atheists and true skeptics rarely experience ghosts, demons or synchronicity. In that sense, the 'phenomenon' could be largely based in the synapses of our brains

8.) Some "craft" have been reported to shape-shift.

9.) There are paranormal/UFO hot spots like Pine Bush, NY, Marley Woods, and the Skinwalker Ranch where everything from lemurs to bigfoot to fairies to aliens are reported.

If the 'craft' are really craft, perhaps shapeshifting is a function of their propulsion? It needn't mean we aren't dealing with a physical craft. I'm not wholly sold on the paranormal hotspots. Marley Woods has been a couple of decades with nothing more than Ted's word and some poor images. Skinwalker Ranch accounts have had a huge impression on me this year. They've opened my mind to things I hadn't considered before. At the same time, I'm open to the possibility that the whole NIDS project was a BS exercise in disinfo. If it was a disinfo project, we're looking at some very credible people being involved in an elaborate cover story for something bizarre. My mind has been buzzing with cognitive dissonance ever since I came across the accounts...

10.) Because the tailor-made experiences of individual experiencers don't make any sense in the context of an alien program. For example, individuals can "call them in" for themselves but not for the population at large. Are there spaceships just sitting in the heavens waiting for us to meditate in the woods on them so they can burst through the clouds and wink a light at us? Do alien tax payer dollars fund this project? We always hear that they don't land because the public isn't ready. Clearly, individuals who call them in are ready. Why don't they land for those people? Why the theatrics? Sorry, believers of the ETH. There will be no disclosure of a galactic federation waiting for us to grow acclimated to their presence in the foreseeable future. Just how long do nonhumans have to live here before we stop calling them alien anyway?

Again, I'm not sold on the idea that people can 'call them in.' In fact, I'm very suspicious of the claims and the sources of the claims. CSETI? ECETI? Channelers?The few accounts that describe structured craft could well be structured craft and not an iteration of some weird paranormal phenomena. Vallee has a lot of responsibility for the notion of a paranormal phenomena shaping human consciousness and there's probably something in that. On the other hand, there could still be 'nuts n bolts' craft in our skies from 'elsewhere.' That doesn't need to mean other star systems, they could be as close to us as indigo is to violet in the rainbow.

Jeff and Jeremy have been chewing these ideas over in their Paratopia podcast...

Jeff and Jer riff on, amongst many other things, an exchange Jeff had with Jerome Clark recently, as well as the forthcoming Jacques Vallee book, Wonders In The Sky. In honor of Jacques’ return to form, we dismantle the extraterrestrial hypothesis and dare to ask: Whose work better represents to the mainstream media a portrait of the UFO situation: Jacques Vallee or Lesley Kean & Rich Dolan?

Paratopia Podcast

Before the shows goes 'premium' there's a lot of very good interviews and interviewees still available in the archives. Mark Nesbit, Ted Roe, Dr Haines, Kevin Randle, Greg Bishop, Nick Redfern etc etc.

I'll be listening to that last show later on...it sounds good.

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal
reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni

 

Just two points you made that i want to maybe open a discusion on.

1. Sightings of UFO's date back to BC not 1947.
2. Abductions by non humans date back to BC not 1941.

These would appear to contradict your statement because if UFO's and abductions were happening long before we even had electricity. Then what was the cause?

Well here's the thing as Jacques Vallee and others have shown: Fairy folklore, demon/angel folklore, Jinn folklore and so forth all have the same characteristics of modern abductions. And UFOs also share similar or same core characteristics through the ages. So calling a UFO a spaceship and calling an "abductor" alien are modern conveniences. Notice how now that we're shifting our Newtonian perspective into the realm of theoretical physics the perspective on UFOs is shifting away from aliens from another planet and toward interdimensional beings. (Reptilians from the whatever density and so forth.)

So if these ever were aliens from another planet, again, how long do they have to have lived here before they are no longer alien?

If they are interdimensional beings, then that means they are right here right now all time, we just can't see them. So, we are embedded in a larger ecology than we can currently detect. Ever see "Pee Wee's Big Adventure," where he's in the middle of nowhere in the dark hearing strange noises? He turns on a light and BAM! Is surrounded by jungle animals. Maybe Pee Wee was onto something.

But these beings could be something else entirely. There does seem to be this aspect to them where they need us to perceive them. A symbiotic relationship we don't have a handle on.

There are all these deeper, richer ways of looking at the phenomenon but ETH implies the shallowest: That they are aliens from another planet doing things we can understand. Doing things we would do, like in Star Trek. Once we're comfortable with their presence, they'll reveal themselves to us. Or perhaps they have a handshake deal with the government and they're trading technology for abductions--you know the list of myths I don't need to repeat them all. The point is, they are completely shallow or material, if you like. And yet the phenomenon doesn't really yield to a shallow, material answer does it?

Here's another one.

* Why do "Aliens" slam Christianity so much and promote New Age practices and occult knowledge, if they were truly from another galaxy why would they be so interested in this.

Originally posted by JJBB22
Here's another one.

* Why do "Aliens" slam Christianity so much and promote New Age practices and occult knowledge, if they were truly from another galaxy why would they be so interested in this.

I don't think we can say that's true. This is a prevalent question the Colins Elite posed according to Nick Redfern's book, "Final Events." But I don't see it. Part of the issue is that we're a predominantly Christian country and most abductions (or abduction research) takes place here. If we were Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim would this hold true, if it's true at all?

And is it true at all? You look at something like The Andreasson Affair where her abductors were very clearly endorsing her Christian beliefs. Or Whitley Strieber's encounter with the Master of The Key where he says all the religions are working parts in the same spiritual machine. Now no religion that claims it is the one and only way to heaven is going to be on board with that, so in a sense it's anti all of the religions on their own narrow terms (except Buddhism, which makes no claim to being the only way.) But really, if you can see past the my-way-or-the-highway fundamentalism, there are some very much pro-spiritual and in that, pro-Christianity messages out there.

reply to post by Jeremy_Vaeni


I understand but your basing this on the notion that they live here all the time. Whether they are interdimentional beings or visitors from another planet. They'll always be alien by definition because they are'nt us or anything that we see on this world.

Ancients mays not have called them aliens so i accept that we are projecting modern ideas on to them, but that does'nt change what they are. I suppose you have to decide whether you want to call them gods like the ancients did or Aliens like we do now, but were essentialy descibing the same thing anyways.

So what i think your saying is, that you want to call them something else. So, differenciating them from our modern beliefs or ideas. O.K i have no problem with that.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Those are some good counterpoints. I'd be interested to see what you think of Vallee's new book and the methodology he and his co-author apply to culling ancient reports. I will say that I don't think it's fair to excluse indigenous peoples' shamanistic/medicine man experiences with nature spirits if one of the ingredients to all of this is an altered state of consciousness. One way we get that is through "hallucinogens," right? And we can have the argument over what "hallucination" means all day.

But I would argue first that merely living in the forest or as a person equal to the land around you means you are in a state of consciousness alternate to mine and so you will see and hear things according to your different sensitivities than I can.

I think when the shaman in the Amazon, for instance, say plants told them how to make Ayahuasca, the ingredients of which are seemingly impossible to put together by chance, we should take their word for it.