HMS Astute: operation underway to refloat world's most advanced nuclear submarine

HMS Astute: operation underway to refloat world's most advanced nuclear submarine

www.telegraph.co.uk

HMS Astute was on sea trials when the rudder of the vessel is thought to have become stuck on a shingle bank on the west coast of Scotland at around 8am today.

John Ainslie, co-ordinator of Scottish CND, said: "This is just the latest in a long line of incidents involving nuclear submarines off the west coast of Scotland. These vessels are regular visitors to the seas around Skye.

"The Navy has several submarine trials areas near Raasay and Applecross.

"Inquiries into previous incidents have shown an appalling lack of common sense and basic navigation skills on these hi-tech subma

(visit the link for the full news article)


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I think John Ainslie's quote is especially a valid and pertinent point.

This isn't the first time a highly advanced Military Vessel has run aground due to lack of common sense and basic navigation skills, nor is it likely to be the last time.

You'd think that after spending $5.5 Billion dollars (3.75 Sterling) that you'd spend some money on training a competent enough crew.

The damage to the sub could end up being insanely costly too.

I guess a look on the bright-side: At least there wasn't a containment breach or meltdown!

When a 1st World Military is run like a Bureaucracy, incompetence is bound to happen more often than naught.

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by fraterormus



I'm sorry I had to laugh when I first heard about this story.
No insults meant to our UK cousins but man what a gaf....

I can imagine a bunch of Taliban/Al-Qaeda sheep-herders ROTFLMAO right now. And it is precisely incidents such as these that gives people with 60 year old munitions the notion that they could stand up to an enemy with superior firepower.

Actually it reminds of that 30-40 year old urban legend:

Transcript of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland. This radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations.

Americans: "Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision."
Canadians: "Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision." Americans: "This is the captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course."
Canadians: "No, I say again, you divert YOUR course."
Americans: "THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH. THAT'S ONE-FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP." Canadians: "This is a lighthouse. Your call.

The transcript might be urban legend, but how many times has something similar happened in the past couple of years?

Astute is now afloat, assisted by a tug boat that is due to be cut

It is still running on diesel.

reply to post by fraterormus



A similar urban legend had a small US Detstroyer in heavy fog, ordering an unknown vessel to alter course due to the unknown being too close to the destroyer. The destroyer captain threatens to shoot at the unknown, that also refused to identify itself.

The response came back "This is the Battleship New Jersey, you may fire when ready."

reply to post by Submarines




Yeah, fire when ready, you'll just chip the paint.

Here's a true story, although I'm hoping this doesn't get me in trouble...

When I was a young lad, I played RPGs with my friends. One time, we decided to go a little overboard and retrofitted the living room and dining room as an actual submarine bridge/control room, with an amazing amount of detail. We all dressed up in old surplus Naval uniforms and called our sub the USS Hammerhead. During our role-playing game half of our group departed in a car as they "boarded" a mysteriously abandoned ship called the NOAAS Wallaby to investigate. Those of us still on the "sub" stayed in communication with the away-team by Shortwave Radio.

After about 20 minutes of communication the group in the car stopped responding. We kept broadcasting "NOAAS Wallaby, this is the USS Hammerhead. Come in NOAAS Wallaby." After about 3 minutes an actual US Coast Guard technician came on telling us that "This is a military channel for military use only. Please change your frequency to a civilian band."

As kids playing around, we should have followed directions, but one in our group decided to try and bluff as if this was still role-playing. He responded "This is Chief Petty Officer [Name] of the USS Hammerhead conducting a rescue mission for the NOAAS Wallaby. Please clear this channel."

The US Coast Guard replied back, "USS Hammerhead, do you require assistance? Please state your location."

At this point we thought we were busted, but the bravest in our group replied "US Coast Guard Monitoring Station, this is the USS Hammerhead. Our position is [Nautical location] and the last known location of the NOAAS Wallaby was [Nautical location]. We do not require assistance at this time. Please clear this channel."

The US Coast Guard replied back, "USS Hammerhead, that location is 50 miles in-land!?!?"

Pushing the limits of better judgment, we responded back "US Coast Guard Monitoring Station, this is the USS Hammerhead. I repeat, please clear this channel for naval recovery efforts of the NOAAS Wallaby. This is your final warning."

Either we bluffed our way through it, or the Coast Guard was finding our dialog between the Wallaby and the Hammerhead downright amusing and decided to let us think they backed off. We continued on the channel between groups for the next two hours before calling it a night.

Needless to say, we teens learned our lesson and decided never to role-play in a manner where the US Military might intervene. Meanwhile, some bored Coast Guard Radio Tech probably had one heck of a funny story to tell his mates the next day.

on a more serious note

I think she ran aground on a sand bar, so perhaps the damage isn't too bad

I saw the Astute a month or so ago as my ferry went past her in the Clyde, very nice, although very "chunky" compared to the many other subs you see around these parts

and damn, was she green below the water eh

reply to post by maintainright

That would be nice.

Supposedly they were about to transfer contractors to another ship and one of the ballasts took on too much water as they tried to pull alongside the ship and caught the rudder.

Someone pointed out that the reason it was unable to get itself unstuck is because the CO wanted to minimize damage, and attempting to free themselves would have risked further damage, so they waited for engineers to help free it.

So, those at the helm might not have been as incompetent as previously stated.

Still, that crew is going to get teased by their fellows, that's for sure.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by fraterormus

 

I'm sorry I had to laugh when I first heard about this story.
No insults meant to our UK cousins but man what a gaf....

USS San Francisco was near wrecked a few years back when she struck an undersea mountain.

"No insults meant to our American cousins but man what a gaf....

"

I snagged this from one of the submarine BBS that I frequent: I'm not sure where it came from, but will post the link when I have it.

SKIPPER WHO RAN SUB AGROUND SAYS HE’S TOO OLD FOR JOB



HMS Astute became stuck during sea trials in a channel between the Isle of Skye and the mainland
Monday October 25,2010
By Judith Duffy
THE nuclear submarine that ran aground last week was escorted back to its base yesterday, as it emerged its commander had admitted he was “getting too old for the job”.

HMS Astute became stuck during sea trials on Friday, in a channel between the Isle of Skye and the mainland.

The Navy’s highest-tech submarine is understood to have strayed several hundred yards outside the safe sea lane marked on Admiralty charts.


After being stuck on a shingle bank for 10 hours, the £1.6billion vessel was eventually towed free by a tug boat.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said it was not a “nuclear incident” and pledged a “full and thorough” investigation.

It will consider if any crew were negligent, and the submarine’s skipper, Commander Andy Coles, could face the prospect of a court martial.

Yesterday, it emerged he had described himself as getting too old for the job in an interview conducted in the summer.

He said: “When I leave her next May, I probably won’t go to sea on a submarine again.

“I’m 47 now and it’s time for someone younger.”

Coles admitted having “close shaves” in the vessel – which can be witnessed by crew members on high-definition television screens.

He said: “In the old days, you could spin around, see you’d had a close shave and think to yourself, ‘I’ve got away with it’. Now everybody knows.”

The skipper also told how he had previously ignored advice not to sail HMS Astute in bad weather. Coles sailed Astute from the Burrow-in-Furness yard, where it was built, into a violent storm last November.

He added: “We left in the teeth of a force eight gale, with the rain lashing in.

“We were advised not to sail, but we still went and I’m glad we did. If ever we needed a test, going out into that was it.”

Astute was moored in deep water on Saturday while its hull and rudder were checked for damage.

Yesterday, the 100-yard vessel began to return to Faslane on the Clyde above water and under its own power, escorted by a tug and a Royal Navy minehunter.

A spokesman for the MoD said it would be “inappropriate” to comment on the possibility of disciplinary action until the investigation is complete.

Kyle lifeboat operations manager Ross McKerlich saw the incident and said: “If he had gone another 200 yards, he would have hit a big rock which would have split its back, and who knows what would have happened then."

Originally posted by Submarines
SKIPPER WHO RAN SUB AGROUND SAYS HE’S TOO OLD FOR JOB

THE nuclear submarine that ran aground last week was escorted back to its base yesterday, as it emerged its commander had admitted he was “getting too old for the job”.

The Navy’s highest-tech submarine is understood to have strayed several hundred yards outside the safe sea lane marked on Admiralty charts.
It will consider if any crew were negligent, and the submarine’s skipper, Commander Andy Coles, could face the prospect of a court martial.

Yesterday, it emerged he had described himself as getting too old for the job in an interview conducted in the summer.

He said: “When I leave her next May, I probably won’t go to sea on a submarine again.

“I’m 47 now and it’s time for someone younger.”

Coles admitted having “close shaves” in the vessel – which can be witnessed by crew members on high-definition television screens.

Good find!

Although 47 is too old? Well, I guess staying in the Military for longer than 20 years could wear thin on anyone, but still, 47 is the new 27 (or so my Teenage Fanclub likes to tell me). It's not like he would be mentally unfit at that age. Sounds like he's just too tired to be a haggard old Sea Dog anymore.

(Personally, I always thought all sub Skippers were older, more distinguished men who had grit and experience that no younger seaman could replace...but perhaps I've watched The Hunt For Red October one too many times.)

The scariest part of this was the last quote:

Originally posted by Submarines
Kyle lifeboat operations manager Ross McKerlich saw the incident and said: “If he had gone another 200 yards, he would have hit a big rock which would have split its back, and who knows what would have happened then."

200 yards isn't a lot of distance when you consider that the S119 is just shy of a 100 yards long. That's basically 2 sub lengths away...or put another way, the S119 travels at 54km/hr, which means it was 13 seconds away from hitting that rock. 13 seconds away from total disaster. That definitely could be considered too close for comfort.

I'm 47 myself. Unfortunatley I havent been to sea in twent years!

The burdens of command weigh heavily. It is extremely high stress, an you don't get much sleep while under way. Maybe 4 hrs if you are lucky. The Skipper's age fast.

I was suprised to find that she was so far out of the lane. If you have ever seen the movie Hunt for Red October, when they are running the underwater ridge at high speed, that is pretty close to what it's like, just not as fast. But the timing and accuracies are what it's all about.

For this to happen, it would seem that the entire control crew was not paying much attention to what was going on. A laxidasical attitude of a crew is also the Captain's fault. Poor submarining.