Budget Cuts for MOD?

Maybe they want to have more special forces and less conventional forces cuz they realize that a few special forces can do the same job as many regular troops and since you have less special forces than regular troops they don't cost as much to keep in operation maybe that is what they plan to do.

so they want the SAS/SBS to go and secure a field instead of destroying vital enemy forces?
also i just read it the army is losing like 7000 of its operational forces an we're losing a very respected and legnedary regiment,black watch, to this mans great ideas. and the worst bit is we cant stop it!!!

[edit on 19/07/04 by devilwasp]

How often does Britain have elections. You know how come we don't have ATS members in some kind of office running things. But hold on, he's cutting black watch. I don't know to much about them but I there very well respected. What was the dome even for. Whats it used for? Anyhow some schools and colleges actually let you help campaign for people.

[edit on 7/22/2004 by cyberdude78]

Originally posted by cyberdude78
How often does Britain have elections. You know how come we don't have ATS members in some kind of office running things. But hold on, he's cutting black watch. I don't know to much about them but I there very well respected. What was the dome even for. Whats it used for? Anyhow some schools and colleges actually let you help campaign for people.

[edit on 7/22/2004 by cyberdude78]

umm its about every 4 or 5 years ,i think, but dont quote me.
we dont have ATS guys running office because to them we are gun crazy ,paraniod ,cospircy freaks.
he may be cutting black watch and mergeing it with the argyll's now both regiments are respected but frankly both deserve seperate regiments.
the dome was a show off thing like the wheel,stupid blair.
it was a museum but now its not.
yeah i suppose but whos gona suppport us?

Originally posted by devilwasp
the dome was a show off thing like the wheel, stupid blair.

Hey at least the wheel was a success and is something London can be proud of. Also it didn't cost over a �1,000,000,000 in tax money like the dome did.

People in the UK work very hard to have their tax money wasted on things like that rather than something that needs money to be spent on it (Military)

Leave the wheel be. It has been open for 4 years unlike the dome which only lasted a year and now lies desolate in Eastern London.

From the BBC
In a damning report, the Commons defence committee says the government's efforts to improve the way it orders kit has "failed on almost all counts".

The performance of the Ministry of Defence's procurement agency in 2002-3 was "woeful", say the MPs' report.

Major kit orders will arrive 18 months late, even without more delay, it adds.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

BBC Story

It really angers me that the MPs are blaming the MOD procurement agency for not investing in risky future schemes. They don't give them enough money in the first place. But I suppose if MPs didn't play the blame game all day long, they would have nothing else to do and would be unemployed.

The MPs are pleased good progress is now being made on the Astute attack submarine and Nimrod aircraft programmes.

I'm just glad something good is happening at the MOD

Another BBC story on this, complete with comments from serving and ex-service personnel: news.bbc.co.uk...

I was particularly amused by talk of the 'Whitehall Warriors'

UK elections happen every 4 years, unless the government calls one early.

I just don't get it. The chancellor increaes National Insurance, other Taxes, borrowing, council tax is increased, and yet nothing seems to come of it. Schools are in a budget crisis. NHS dentists are an endangered species because the government don't pay them enough. In all these departments money just seems to roll into the hollow earth, never to be seen again and with no result. And on top of all this the MOD is in a budget crisis.

And then, while we're in the middle of a large war on terror,in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as other operations in Northern Ireland, Kosovo and Sierra Leone, we're cutting our armed forces. If we're attacked who's going to do anything about it. NATO damn well aren't. France and Germany couldn't give a flok They wouldn't do anything. Spain is now a terrorist fearing pussy, afraid to do anything. Talk about letting the terrorists win.
Without America we can't do anything. The UK at least needs some independence over its defence affairs.
Its all very well spending money on technology, but the basics need to be taken care of first; like buying a rifle that actually works! @gasp@
We should be enlarging our armed forces and kitting them out properly, and yes, that will cost money The MOD seems to be the only thing which isn't a drain, money rolling in and disappearing with no result. At least tanks and planes come out.
We need more defence funding, and Armed Forces we can be proud of. We have the best Army, Navy and Air Force in the World. Let's keep it that way.



apologies for this rant.

Minimi: pro-war, anti BS.

[edit on 28-7-2004 by minimi]

Originally posted by minimi
Another BBC story on this, complete with comments from serving and ex-service personnel: news.bbc.co.uk...

I like this idea "It should be made compulsory that every MP whose children are of military age should be enlisted into a front line regiment. I bet there would be no more cut backs or equipment shortages then."

MPs do stupid things but remain in power because no-one can be bothered to vote because they hate politicians. MPs win and people lose.

Originally posted by minimi
Another BBC story on this, complete with comments from serving and ex-service personnel: news.bbc.co.uk...

I was particularly amused by talk of the 'Whitehall Warriors'

- the journos writing this stuff love these little tags too, very clever.

UK elections happen every 4 years, unless the government calls one early.

- nice to see someone else from the UK actually knows - at least a little- how their system works.

I just don't get it. The chancellor increaes National Insurance, other Taxes, borrowing, council tax is increased, and yet nothing seems to come of it.

- maybe you're not actually using the facilities? Maybe that's why you think things are no better?

Schools are in a budget crisis. NHS dentists are an endangered species because the government don't pay them enough. In all these departments money just seems to roll into the hollow earth, never to be seen again and with no result.

- Have you been to a hospital lately? Our hospitals are undoubtedly much improved and ditto the school standards. No one is claiming perfection but to claim things are unchanged and no better than before is simply not true.

And on top of all this the MOD is in a budget crisis.

- OK that's your opinion. I don't agree at all......and more importantly neither do the military either.

'Newspaper' people who foresee a rerun of WW2, or something similar, of course lament the modern format of the UK's forces but they are living in the past shouting "what ifs" based on the past. The past is gone.

And then, while we're in the middle of a large war on terror,in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as other operations in Northern Ireland, Kosovo and Sierra Leone, we're cutting our armed forces.

- There is to be a small cut-back in army numbers and some of the RAF's older units are going. Hardly a crisis. The military aren't claiming a crisis.....and since when did they ever hold back on their opinions?

Commitments in Northern Ireland, Kosovo and Siera Leon have all already been scaled back considerably and, all being well, Iraq and Afghanistan will be too shortly, hopefully.....none of which justifies your ideas for an expanded armed forces in the UK.

If we're attacked who's going to do anything about it.

- What attack? What - even remotely - likely attack?

This is the point.....there has just been a review of UK commitments and likely possible demands on the UK military. This was done by several military personnel and a variety of specialists and experts from the various fields. This latest report is their work.

So, what are you saying? In your opinion they know nothing and you're the expert?

NATO damn well aren't. France and Germany couldn't give a flok They wouldn't do anything.

- Really? How could you possibly say? Adding fortune telling to your list of skills now are we? lol

Spain is now a terrorist fearing pussy, afraid to do anything. Talk about letting the terrorists win.

- Rubbish. The Spainish public ejected their previous government when they were caught 100% bang to rights trying to make selfish political capital out of the Madrid bombing.

How many nano-seconds do you imagine any government anywhere else lasting in similar circumstances?

I know that goes against the standard propaganda but then those parroting the propaganda tend to know jack about Spain or the recent Spainish election.

Without America we can't do anything. The UK at least needs some independence over its defence affairs.

- Hmm is this not kind of contradictory? Are you saying the UK needs it's independance.......... by hitching our wagon to the USA?

Besides how do you square this with the facts of recent years?

Don't be silly, 'we' have our independance and have chosen to do things together with the USA regardles of what the other European states have decided.

Its all very well spending money on technology, but the basics need to be taken care of first; like buying a rifle that actually works! @gasp@

- you want to stop reading those 'newspapers'......are you seriously suggesting the BA is currently without a working rifle? Don't be absurd.

We should be enlarging our armed forces

- What for? Fun? There is no need now nor is there likely to be. What possible realistic scenario of attack requires an enlarged UK army?

and kitting them out properly,

- by and large we do. Nothing is ever perfect and like the military everywhere mistakes get made but one cannot pretend that the BA is not, on the whole, a well equipped effective fighting force.

and yes, that will cost money

- I suggest you wake up. The national priority - should money become available - is not for additional military spending.

That's the nation's priority....you know the nation, your people, those you'll no doubt claim great kinship with? Our people want any available money spent on almost everything other than the military first.

The MOD seems to be the only thing which isn't a drain, money rolling in and disappearing with no result. At least tanks and planes come out.

- may I ask how old you are? Did you see the report yesterday on the disaster the current tendering system has been in the UK? Many projects late and over budget - I'd call that "money rolling in and disappearing with no result" if ever it were!

You do realise that a tank or plane at �xxmillion is one of the most unproductive things public money can buy? This great 'result' you see is never going to produce anything or do anything but sit there, cost huge amounts of money to maintain and update from time to time, be crewed by personnel whos' training can cost additional millions and either destroy stuff from time to time and/or, hopefully and just as likely, be eventually scrapped unused.

Not quite a school, a hospital or several dental surgeries is it?

We need more defence funding,

- no we don't. That was the whole point of the review. We will never fight WW2 or anything like it again.

This is, in fact, typical. Because it is 'what we know' we always expect the next war to be similar to the last. They never are.

and Armed Forces we can be proud of. We have the best Army, Navy and Air Force in the World. Let's keep it that way.

- I don't see anyone not proud of our forces. Neither do I see 'best' in anything like the terms you do.

apologies for this rant.

Minimi: pro-war, anti BS.

- no problem so long as you can take one back!

Originally posted by Hyperen
I like this idea "It should be made compulsory that every MP whose children are of military age should be enlisted into a front line regiment. I bet there would be no more cut backs or equipment shortages then."

- that's an idea with much appeal.

MPs do stupid things but remain in power because no-one can be bothered to vote because they hate politicians. MPs win and people lose.

- Hmm, I can see a little of what you mean but I don't agree. People will vote when they're fed up enough.

The emphatic ejection of the UK tory party in 97 would tend to contradict your view, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Hmm, I can see a little of what you mean but I don't agree. People will vote when they're fed up enough.

The emphatic ejection of the UK tory party in 97 would tend to contradict your view, wouldn't it?

from here
The May 1997 election produced the lowest turnout since 1935. It was followed in 1998 by local government elections in which less than a third of those eligible to vote did so.

I don't know if that's true or not as I don't know and can't remember much from that election.

Looking at your post analysing minimi's post, I would imagine 'Westy' should be along soon saying how America is upping their budget.

about that comment about a tank over a hospital or school frankly i dont think its a waste of money.we need to protect our homes.schools,hospitals and such but what we gona protect them with? a 10000 man army?
i mean even Ian Laird, secretary of the Royal Scots Regimental Association see's it
"The next time our nation is under threat - which will happen sooner or later - as ever we will turn to the army to save us, as they always have.

"But the way things are going now, there will be no-one there to respond."

we need at least a good military unless we want to turn into a nuetral country. which im saying aint a bad thing.
what i wanna know is why we cant upgrade our planes or weapons? i mean come on. i know the sa-80 is a ok rifle but why dont we get a better one. i mean if we have a small army thats fine if its well trained and equipped but theres no substitue for numbers.

Looking at your post analysing minimi's post, I would imagine 'Westy' should be along soon saying how America is upping their budget.

Nope this is a British matter you guys know what is in your countries best interest plus you all know where I stand on this issues so im not going to criticize. Also don't call me Westy!

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- Hmm, I can see a little of what you mean but I don't agree. People will vote when they're fed up enough.

The emphatic ejection of the UK tory party in 97 would tend to contradict your view, wouldn't it?

from here
The May 1997 election produced the lowest turnout since 1935. It was followed in 1998 by local government elections in which less than a third of those eligible to vote did so.

- check this if you're interested www.tutor2u.net...

You will see that whilst technically that comment is true the 71% turnout in 1997 is within a fraction of a % of the 1945 & 1983 level......similarly elections where all but the losing sides' zealots 'knew' what the result was bound to be.

2001 was very low, that set the record....but again another poll where all but the losers most ardent support knew the most likely result.

....and that is probably going to be the result early next year too.

[edit on 30-7-2004 by sminkeypinkey]