Should babies be baptised, without their consent ?

I have completely refused to have my son christened for 2 reasons:

1. I have atheist views
2. It is up to him to decide when and if he wants to follow a religion.

I have no problem with him choosing a religion if that is what he really wants but only once he has had an unbiased education on it.

On the other hand my sister in law had her two sons baptised so they could go to a catholic school in her area that had better results (none of them are remotely religious) the problem with this is that her kids, although they are smart enough to question what is being pushed upon them, have to attend Sunday School etc.

also

GeisterFahrer

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“(Recall) when your Lord brought forth their progeny from the loins of the children of Adam, and made them testify about themselves (by asking them,):
- Am I not your Lord?
They said:
- Of course, You are. We testify”.
(Qur'an, 7:172)

“Every child is born with the belief of Allāh (as God). It is then the influence of the parents that make him a Jew, Christian or Magus”
(Muhammad)

reply to post by Rock Ape


I was baptized as an infant...and from the pictures it looks like I was getting waterboarded.
Not cool Catholics...not cool.....

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


No actually it has nothing to do with my beliefs. Your art of one line or one word inflammatory comments brings me to the assumption that you are trolling. Unless you can bring something of substance to the table don't bother.

And yes my child will have an unbiased education when it comes to religion, as I have stated in my previous post although I am atheist I have no issue with what my child wishes to "believe" be it christian, buddhist, muslim whatever but as once again I stated he will first be educated in their beliefs and belief systems and allowed to make his own mind up.

reply to post by Rock Ape


The church that I go to you're not suppose to
baptise babies.I think only the catholics baptise
babies,I could be wrong.

Though I certainly dont think parents should be baptizing babies without their consent I cant imagine that any god would hold much value in some guy in a costume rubbing room temperature water on your head and spouting gibberish. Especially when done without your understanding or consent. There isnt anything permanent or concrete with a baptism. It essentially is meaningless. It's like dressing your kid up in a goofy outfit and taking pictures. Actually, the pictures have more of a measured affect than the baptism does.

You want to talk violation without consent let's talk circumcision.


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reply to post by i am just saying


Eight is the starting age. There is an interview first, and they have to be able to tell right from wrong, and want to be baptized before it's done. There are some kids who don't do it for many reasons. My son was baptized at eight.
And though raised a Mormon, active in the Church, chose when able to make up his own mind on the matter to join a different church. Just like both his parent, who are both raised Lutheran.
We really prefer 'LDS', by the way. Keeps up separate from the polygamist looneys. And for those who will refute what I say, you are wrong. I've been a LDS for over 30 years and my husband a bit longer. He was also a missionary for two years. We know what the Church believes and, more often than not, it is not what people sasayy we do. We live it, naysayers do not.

You don't require consent to give a baby a bath, why would baptising a baby be any different ?

It's not going to mentally scar the child, nor will the person even remember it happened when they grow up, so I don't really see how this could be a problem at all.

If the person grows up not be a Christian, then they'll just see the baptising as having water splashed over their head when they were a baby, the same as when they were given a bath.

Well look at it this way, if they grow up to believe in God it's a good thing, they've already been baptized. If they don't believe in God, then the baptism was meaningless. It's not like they're forced to be christian their whole life because as a baby they were dunked in some water.

reply to post by Rock Ape


I think most parents who do do it follow certain traditions with good intentions in mind of securing their offspring within the gates of heaven. I dont see to much harm in it unless you are being baptised by a undecover evil 1 who behind closed doors is up to the worst of the worst. That would be my main concern, is this person performing this holy duty holy aswell.

Simply No.
Here is why. First baptism was started by John the Baptist in the first century, He was asking Jews to acknowledge and repent of their personal sins, and do it of there own free will in a size decent body of water.
Although born into a sinful condition, a newborn has not committed major sin to repent from. As well it has to be a personal choice to have value to God.
A person has to be old enough and have enough maturity that they can make this important choice on their own.

The fact is infant baptism has no value to God, it is an exercise in futility, the church clergy began to practice this dogma because it thought it could save souls by doing it, and they are wrong.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Everyone is born into sin. Supposedly in the eyes of the God there isn't a "major" sin as you put it. A sin is a sin and if you die in sin then you go to hell.

Now on topic.

Some parents do this as a kind of a temporary insurance policy, as I stated above, everyone is born into sin and if you die in sin you go to hell. The only thing the baptism does is ensure they are cleansed of the sin they were born into. Since babies rarely commit a sin, they are pretty much safe until they reach the age of 8 or 9. That is when they are determined to be able to tell right from wrong and therefor they are able to sin again.

Thats when they are able to get the baptism that really counts. The reason it really counts is because thats the one that sticks as it was your decision.

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by Rock Ape

 

I was baptized as an infant...and from the pictures it looks like I was getting waterboarded.
Not cool Catholics...not cool.....

Not stalking you...just following you around and giving you stars. This is so funny...

The important thing is not whether or not you have your children baptised, it's how much thought you put into making that decision.

When my firstborn was a baby, I took the need for baptism for granted, so I took her to the Anglican church as that was the church I'd been brought up in. When that minister refused because I was a single mother, (this was Manly, 1974,) I tried the Presbyterians and then the Methodists. When they refused, for the same reason, I tried the Catholics. The priest would only do it if I converted. All these refusals brought home to me that the churches do not live by the teachings of Jesus. Instead of "suffer the little children to come unto me," they judged my baby as being contemptible because she was a "bastard".

That week I rethought my own Christianity, and decided my little girl and I could live without hypocrisy-filled religion.

They are always a good excuse for a knee's up on otherwise boring Sunday afternoon's, as long as we blokes can still get in the bar for the 4pm match.
Must say though, plays havoc with the Sunday night pool.

Seriously, it's just like introducing the new born into it's circle of family and friends etc.
Most well adjusted people will be able to make their own mind up about the religious aspects of it all when they grow up.
It's not as if it is a painful or traumatic experience for the child.

My opinion regarding the OP is that it really doesn't matter because it doesn't do anything.
Baptism is an act of will (be it spiritual or even just subconscious psychology). Without this act of will, it is meaningless and ineffective.

I just had this conversation with my dad.
I am born into a christian family (Protestants) but I don't even know what that really means and I will stay inside the church as long as my old grandmother is alive..it would break her heart if I go against christianity and that is unnecessary.
There is no way you can let a baby decide..It's a baby!
I had my confirmation when I was 8 or so. My father thought I was old enough to make such decision but I just agreed to it because everybody was doing it and thought it would look odd if I start to question the religion.
I was never good with imagining God as somebody sitting on a thrown, watching me and going to put me in heaven or hell when I die depending on how I lived my life, the whole Jesus story..I just don't get it too well. Science lets me accept and understand better.
No matter what happened when we were babies, young kids & etc the point is you are the person you are right now because of all those things happening. You are who you are, don't fuss so much about detail

this is relevant in my life. my nephew is about to be baptized. I asked my brother why and all he could say is because it's what we do, so he can make communion and confirmation. i asked why he had to make those sacraments if we never go to church. whats the point? just to pay money to a church because thats what mom and dad did with us?

i was raised catholic and i'm still recovering. i want no part of that pagan religion masquerading as the church of Christ.

Another common misconception concerning Christianity, is that you MUST be baptized in water to go to Heaven or enter into Christ's Kingdom. This is simply....NOT TRUE. I will not patronize you. If you believe in Christ, what ONE THING will save you? Yes, it is accepting HIM as our Father's son and the Savior of humanity. What did Christ do to save us? He shed His perfect, innocent, Holy blood..that we might not die an eternal death. So what exactly IS water baptism? It's plainly an outward symbolic profession of one's desire to follow in the footsteps of Christ. Those that choose to be baptized, should be led from within their heart to do so.....not from a Church that says you must be baptized to be a member or you MUST be baptized to be saved.

Let's look at some verses that describe exactly what I have relayed above.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Matthew 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance, but the One who is coming after me is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to take off His sandals. He Himself will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

Acts 4:12 "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved."

It requires enlightenment via the Holy Spirit to understand why Water Baptism is not a requirement of Salvation. Being Baptized is not a golden ticket to Heaven because it is the condition of the heart is what truly matters. Being Baptized with water is only a symbolic and outward declaration that we wish to walk in Christ's footsteps.

"For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body" This is why the water baptism is no longer necessary if you are Sanctified by the Truth of Christ. Don't let money hungry power crazed Shepherds pull the wool over your eyes.

Children pass over without water baptism. Some die at birth or are aborted. The children have special status with the Creator. They are not doomed and neither are adults that are not water baptized. What would happen if you were shipwrecked for the remainder of you life? How could God justify not giving you a chance to learn His Sovereign Will at transition? The only requirement for Christ’s salvation is that of a humble heart. Once you are with Christ, he knows your humble heart will accept him. When you passed through his Light, you were then baptized as a Holy Ghost. The water baptism would be nil in Christ's eyes. It is the HEART that Saves. Nothing else can get you into the Kingdom unless your heart is of Positive energy. Yahweh Himself reveals this at Jeremiah 17:10.

“I, the LORD, examine the mind, I test the heart to give to each according to his way, according to what his actions deserve.”

The baptisms performed here on this planet are just a facsimile of what you would experience if you gained Christ's approval to be in his Kingdom. The REAL baptism MUST come by passing through the Light. If you had to be baptized to be saved, there would be NO NEED to read your heart. The baptism would be the determining factor and NOT your heart condition. If the heart were not the thing of importance, He would not search it. It is not the outward appearance that Saves, but what is hidden deep within the heart.