absolute fact and the bible.

reply to post by clinton777


HOLEEEE Clinton! Seriously buddy. I was born and raised in a independent fundamental Baptist Church and taught in a Christian School with chapel and bible class everyday and after two failed "salvations" by a blood thirsty god who would bath in the blood of his son that was sent to vicariously die for humanity, I have only this to say to the OP;

Save your money. You will not find truth in religion or any of it's founding ideals. If you want truth, have a child and look into his eyes when he's smiling at you or feel his breath on your cheek as he sleeps. All you have and ever will have is the moment you are in RIGHT NOW. The "salvation" I needed all my life, the thing that has changed me and pulled me from a life of addiction and self-destruction has not been an invisible space daddy, but has been the love and support of my wife and my daily effort to live only in the moment I am in when I am in it.

reply to post by clinton777


Sorry what you said was all false and pointless. More Pagan then God.
You simply follow the wrong doctrine and act as it is all true and fulfilling. It's not!
Blood Sacrifice

There are a number of requirements for a sacrifice to be valid or it is completely disqualified and will be an abomination to G-d. These requirements are as follows: 1. The sin offering must be brought forth by the person seeking atonement, and slaughtered either by the sinner or by the priest. 2. Death must be caused by a sharp, perfect blade cutting across the neck, resulting in blood loss and swift death. 3. The offering must be physically unblemished. 4. In the case of mammal offerings (bulls, lambs, etc.) the offering must be less than one year old. 5. In the case of mammal offerings, the mammal must have cloven hooves and chew cud. 6. The sacrifice must be brought at the Temple 7. The sacrifice must have its blood taken by a priest and sprinkled on the altar. 8. The sacrifice must be salted. Since Jesus did not fulfill even one of the eight precepts listed above, it's clear that his death could not be the atoning sacrifice Christians claim it is.

Dose Jesus fulfill any of these? Nope!

reply to post by clinton777


my fellow poster. you poor deluded soul. I feel sorry for you, really I do. the being you speak of in ancient biblical times was cruel and sadistic shall I list the atrocities?

1. adam and eve were kicked out of paradise for acquiring knowledge. so your deity preferred them ignorant and submissive why? what does said deity have to hide?
2. floods the planet killing millions (noah story)
3. rains fire from the sky because people are having a good time. (Sodom and Gomorrah)
thats pretty cruel and sadistic to me how about you?
these are just a few, I could go on but whats the point, you get were I am going with this. look if you prefer to follow blindly that is your choice. however I choose to question everything. I am seeking truth and all the paths faiths religions I have studied up to now including my own personal experiences point to the fact that
GOD IS WITHIN.
so the real trinity is not father, son and holy ghost but me, myself and I................
sorry I hope your not offended that is not my intention, I am only stating the facts as presented in the bible which you must know is incomplete.
another thing why is it all the real wrath of god miracle power stuff end when jesus was killed on the cross?
before that your being deity alien whatever was very present and active on the planet peforming miracles, wrath said being was very involved then after his son is killed the being departs earth why? it's like were left to our own devices.......... why create us to abandon us? what kind of parent is that?

I like your post, sir. It's all well put however a little "heads-up" is coming your way regarding this, your last paragraph:

Originally posted by gaurdian2012
reply to post by clinton777

 

another thing why is it all the real wrath of god miracle power stuff end when jesus was killed on the cross?
before that your being deity alien whatever was very present and active on the planet peforming miracles, wrath said being was very involved then after his son is killed the being departs earth why? it's like were left to our own devices.......... why create us to abandon us? what kind of parent is that?

There's a little trick they use called "dispensationalism". In other words, there were different periods through out our history with "Jehovah" where he decided to doll out different ways of interacting with his people. So, the "dispensation" of miracles ended with the apostles (those who knew or directly communicated with the man-god (jesus). After the time of the Apostle Paul the "god-head" sent the "Holy Ghost/Spirit" to work in the hearts of man (which we are to believe is that "small still voice" within us to tell us right from worng... as if conscience didn't exist before 1 A.D.) which rendered the miracles and cool parlor tricks that "Jehovah/Yahweh/Elohim and then subsequently good ole J.C. and his band of theives ala Robin Hood, would perform.

There ya have it. I love your outlook. I have had too close a relationship with Judeo-Christianity for too many years. Wasn't until I put all those questions on hold and focus my attention within and used my own innate powers did I make any headway towards making my life any better or brighter.

Stop discussion. Where were there those who did not becameth friends and pulled up a web of confusion. Acquire eachother.


Companions.



Free

Originally posted by threadkiller
Religious texts are man made social tools designed to help keep really stupid and sometimes very dangerous people under control. Have fun on your quest.

HUH? What cave have you been in?

Dr. Ivin Panin proved the supernatural inspiration of the Bible by his study of the "Heptadic Structures" it contained. He proved in impossible for a single man to have done this, let alone 44 authors over a couple thousand years.

Concerning Ivan Panin

So now numerology is 'proof' of 'god'. Why not 'proof' of the 'devil', interdimensional beings or ETs, who also would be in possession of knowledge on the alleged mathematical patterns in this freak analysis.

Astrology can be 'proved' this way, as can the fact, that if you want to live a long time, you should take a job as an unmarried lift-operator, because they have the lowest mortality rate of all (or had, when this was 'proved'. Times are changing).

The web is filled with such trash, but there are always prophets, who don't turn on their brains, before opening their mouths.

reply to post by bogomil

The web is filled with such trash, but there are always prophets, who don't turn on their brains, before opening their mouths.

1. Dr. Ivin Panin wrote his book in 1890, there wasn't a "web" then if I did my homework correctly.

2. Let me get this straight... Satan, a created being, is capable of delivering this staggering, integrated message system to us, but God, whom created satan, cannot????

Secondly, satan is a created being. He can only be in one place at one time. he doesn't exist outside of the dimension of time like God does. If satan wants to know the future, he has to read the Word of God like you or I and try to disrupt it.



"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and sins should be forgiven them." ~ Mark 4:2

Re NoturTypical

The OP asked:

"now that i have begun another delve into the bible, one of my main research goals
is to follow proven fact.
so, what is absolute truth?"

and you make the following observations:

"1. Dr. Ivin Panin wrote his book in 1890, there wasn't a "web" then if I did my homework correctly.

2. Let me get this straight... Satan, a created being, is capable of delivering this staggering, integrated message system to us, but God, whom created satan, cannot????

Secondly, satan is a created being. He can only be in one place at one time. he doesn't exist outside of the dimension of time like God does. If satan wants to know the future, he has to read the Word of God like you or I and try to disrupt it."

This YOUR FAITH, you are presenting. In sharp competition with 34000 other christian subsets, not to mention all the other competitors in the truth-and-soul-catching business. That you choose to have your own very individual variety of 'truth' and methods for finding this 'truth' is your choice, but it's miles away from any serious epistemological methodology.

You disregard common sense, logic, social considerations, but you can't expect anyone to accept your bizarre claims on the basis of your private selfappointed 'truth'.

Amongst your competitors with better claims than yours are:

Gnosticism fits better with contemporary cosmogony.

Buddhism fits better with contemporary cosmology.

Jain fits better with contemporary liberal democracy.

Utilitarian philosophy fits better with contemporary ethics.

You are as usual just pushing your own religious extremism, and being a missionary doesn't answer any questions until a safe base of communication and understanding is established. You have the predigested 'answers' and invent 'facts' to 'prove' them.

"That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and sins should be forgiven them." ~ Mark 4:2

I'll trust the math of Dr. Iniv Panin.

Math has a unique ability to transcend dogma and prejudices.

Re Rubbertramp

As you can see, there's a great deal of variety in the suggestions you have recieved as answers to your OP.

Personally I agree with those, who leave it up to yourself to find 'ultimate' answers (if such exist), because after all every single human being has individual criteria he/she bases his/her choices on.

Extremists of all kinds like to see the world in black/white. Inside their bubble or outside it. And naturally a lot of information, knowledge and communication will be filtered according to already existing 'answers' into inclusive-exclusive categories. A lot of stuff disappears this way.

There's no need for rivalry between logic, science, faith, religion, epinoia experience (e.g. transcendence) or social context, neither individually nor collectively, UNLESS you believe, that YOUR 'answers' are exclusive and must have a monopoly. Then we have ideological fascism, and soon blood and brainwashing will follow.

In this situation of ideological fascism, there are always 'experts', who claim for or against this or that. Even by twisting or falsifying available information.

To get down to a more practical level; maybe you could ask yourself, what kind of 'truth' you really are searching for. A theological one, a religious doctrine, a group to belong to or a way to find direct contact to higher levels of existence. Will you include science and logic in your answer, and to what degree. Do you trust your own senses and pragmatism. How much does social context mean for you in this connection. Etc.

This is basically epistemology, and you can create your complete own version or find inspiration in epistemology as an academic subject. Everything is your choice.

Re NotyrTypical

You wrote:

"Math has a unique ability to transcend dogma and prejudices."

I know; I have a solid education in hard science, especially mathematics, and that's why I question the validity of your peculiar use of it.

I have ofcourse no problem with whatever interpretation and method you use personally, but in the perspective of the orthodox mathematics I learned, you are selling mathematical snake-oil (sad to say, it's not the first time), and as that seems to be part of your missionary efforts it becomes everybody's business.

Or are you still insisting, that preaching without opposition is a christian privilege?

reply to post by bogomil


Your argument is an "Appeal to Authority" fallacy.

Instead of arbitrary opinion and conjecture, how about you show me how Dr. Panin's math is flawed?

Take your time, he's given us 43,000 examples of the heptadic structure of scripture.

A basic overview:

Missler - Heptadic structure of scripture 1 of 2

Missler - Heptadic structure of scripture 2 of 2

Instead of 43,000, just challenge the few Dr. Missler expounds upon.

Here's a short list of bible prophecy that has come true, and by no means is it a complete list, but it is certainly enough. The only prophecies that haven't come true are the ones that haven't occurred yet. The fact that the bible has never been wrong should speak volumes about it's validity. Check it out here, and remember that this was writing thousands of years ago, by a lot of different people from kings to farmers.

rr-bb.com...!

Read that, then question the bible's accuracy.

Re NoturTypical

Well, my 'authoritarian' and orthodox mathematics is the one used for building bridges and computers and for solving scientific problems and making order of statistical analyses.


Your presented 'evidence' from your own camp of extremists christian 'authorities' (who can't build bridges, believe the universe is 6000 years old and include talking snakes) is YOUR alternative to this mathematics. Your choice.

To the point: According to MY 'authoritarian' mathematics, I have already proved the worthlessness of Panin's system. If you know too little of this standard kind of mathematics to understand it, but subjectively prefer your own variety, it's not a problem for me, as it only accentuates your tunnel-reality.

But I'll try to explain it to you: Language and letters are NOT random systems, which eventually will manifest in a neutral basic order of averages (like a statistic probabilty in e.g. dice-rolling or a quantum system). Words and letters are pre-arranged in contexts like semantics and the regularity with which certain letters turns up. Some significant patterns are BOUND to turn up, and these can only be analysed and used as 'evidence' on a statistical basis, where the statistical methodology in its turn verifies the value of the whole original postulate.

To save both you and me the trouble of going through all the questionable methodology of Panin (which never was your intention, I'm sure. You just want to give your claims some quantitative support), I'll refer you to one of your fellow christians, who on mathematical grounds considers Panin a hoax:

"http://www.moresureword.com/panin.htm"

reply to post by bogomil


Appeal to authority much?

You realize when an argument is shown to be a fallacy in part it renders the entire argument invalid. What you've presented would be accurate if a few passages here and there displayed the Heptadic structure, yet that's not the case. The ENTIRE Septuagint (LXX) and NT of the Textus Receptus displays this anomaly from Genesis to Revelation.

The probability of this occurring NOT EVEN by random chance, but by purposeful design BY ONE author is absurd exponentially, but it happens with every book authored by 40 men over thousands of years. There is nothing more sure in this world than the bible was inspired and breathed by God.

reply to post by bogomil

However Panin's INPUT of the texts of Westcott & Hort is GARBAGE, and the Holy Spirit of Truth would confirm THAT to anyone studied to be approved unto God on that particular subject.

LOL!!!!! Your author who wrote this on your link is extremely ignorant. Much of Panin's work was done to REFUTE Westcott and Hort's Greek text, and the Textus Vanaticus and Textus Sinaticus that birthed it. The author of this assumes Pannin relied on the Westcott and Hort text for his evaluations!!!

LOL What Panin proved was the Westcott and Hort text was perverted and DID NOT conform to Heptadic Structure. Panin's entire work was to show the authority of the Textus Receptus and King James version.

Thank you for posting that, that made my day!!!