Hey climate deniers - are you smarter than a 5th grader?

There's been a lot of global warming rhetoric popping up again on ATS lately, and every time it does - the same old one-line myths start rearing their ugly heads: "it's just a natural cycle", "all the planets are warming", "it's actually cooling", "they used to call it global warming, but now it's climate change", "volcanoes release more CO2 than people", yaddi yadda, blah and so on...

But one of the most prevalent and absolutely WRONG ones is this:

"There is no proof that CO2 causes warming"

Well...actually the proof is in the physics itself...but since most people find that answer too boring - I present to you proof in the form of a grade school science experiment (and more):



Now back to your regularly programmed denial. (Feel free to make jokes about how they're indoctrinating our youth with their "evil science agenda" or whatever)

reply to post by mc_squared


Global warming is a complicated issue. There are A LOT more variables on our huge planet than there are in a couple of plastic containers.

The argument isn't about whether CO2 has this effect or not. It's about the severity of the effect. We're only talking about a couple hundred parts per million here. Also, the effect may be self-limiting through negative feedback.

And this experiment doesn't invalidate the fact that the planets ARE warming, or that this IS a naturally occurring cycle. With all theses factors it's hard to say exactly what's happening, but I think it's safe to say that the science is certainly not settled.

reply to post by BobbinHood


Those more complicated factors can all be addressed quite satisfactorily in a longer thread - but nobody around here seems to care is the thing...

My point of this thread was to just highlight the outright absurdity of some of the rampant one-line myths that spread like wildfire in these sort of situations. And no - not all the planets are warming up and no this isn't a natural cycle (or at least there is absolutely no evidence of that) - read the links I left in the OP!

Reply to post by mc_squared

I do believe that you seem to have slept through the climate-gate scandal.

Give it a rest. No one is buying the BS anymore.


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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


No, I actually took the time to read a lot of the emails myself, examine them in their proper context, and actually paid attention when the scientists were cleared of any wrong doing through numerous independent investigations.

I didn't just get myself all into a tizzy and jump to conclusions when right wing media and over zealous bloggers reported some manufactured non-event as a "scandal":

"Climategate" exposed: Conservative media distort stolen emails in latest attack on global warming consensus

Now you go back to sleep.

Originally posted by mc_squared
There's been a lot of global warming rhetoric popping up again on ATS lately, and every time it does - the same old one-line myths start rearing their ugly heads: "it's just a natural cycle", "all the planets are warming", "it's actually cooling", "they used to call it global warming, but now it's climate change", "volcanoes release more CO2 than people", yaddi yadda, blah and so on...

The reason for the arguments is that most Americans after a lifetime of propaganda from the corporate think tanks they have become easily duped. This nation is so gullible when these think tanks make what seems like a grass roots movement but in actuality it was lt calculated by big business that wants to keep cranking up profits, the mindless bottom line machine.

We have over 750 million vehicles in the world. 750 million. All of them sucking in fresh air and blowing out CO2 at a ridiculous rate. Let alone all the huge factories nearly unchecked in China and elsewhere, or even the ones that are regulated...all blowing out so much toxic crap.

Most of the mindset of these zombies that will believe anything by the corporate propaganda machines seem to be the right wingnuts. They seem to be everywhere and very loud these years since Reagan. Its like invasion of the zombies or something.

Whatever happened to being not leftist or right and being an individual?

people emit co2 ..24. 7 .365 around the clock.
their are not that many volcanoes on the planet.
people need to get a life or just remain brain dead
and keep dumb comments to themselves and the
3rd graders they follow on twitter.

GLOBAL WARMING IS A FACT NOT AN ACT GET SOME COMMON SENS PEOPLE

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Exactly!

Thanks for your post.

I know there are more people here on ATS who actually get it like you do - I just wish they would come out of the woodwork more often and help the rest of these zombies think more clearly.

reply to post by mc_squared

Hi, mc_squared !

The video shows what the CO2 is doing, and when we use our eyes and
**common sens**, we see:
how Groenland is melting,
how glaciers are melting back up to their source,
how the north pole's floating ice is a fraction of what it was,
how the perma frost is melting,
how animals from the warmer south are comming up to the north,
how the weather has changed, in the last ~10 years
. . .etc. . .
OH !
how, some years ago, thousands of europeans died in a heat wave,
. . .etc. . .
and many more I forget. . .
how the ice on top of higher mountains is melting towards the top. . .

S & F, man.

Blue skies

reply to post by mc_squared



All the planets are warming.
Natural Cycle
The earth is actually cooling

The whole volcano putting out more CO2 then people to me is not even an issue. Everything I have read about this states that the CO2 from fossil fuels emit way more then volcano's. . (Something like 1% come from volcanos?)

I understand where you are coming from OP but if you look at the links that I posted many people have the exact opposite view then the folks in your links do.

I am not trying to be rude, arrogant or whatever so please don't take it that way. Everything contradicts everything. The matter at hand seems to be black and white only. Who knows. It would be nice to have scientists on both sides that do not have an agenda to work together and try to figure out what is really going on. The "Justice League" of scientists if you will.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


YOUR RIGHT ON THE MONEY. HEY MAYBE THE RIGHT WINGERS ARE E.T'S THAT NEED A HOT PLANET AND ARE TRYING TO KILL US OFF. N.W.O...LOL.

SERIOUSLY CO2 LEVELS ARE GETTING DANGEROUSLY HIGH WE NEED A REAL CHANGE IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM. ITS ONLY IN FAVOR OF THE PIGGY BANK.

Interesting. This "science" thread is starting to sound a little politically motivated.

Let's all keep in mind that there is definitely money to be made by proponents of the anthropogenic global warming theory, as well as the skeptics.

Originally posted by BobbinHood
Let's all keep in mind that there is definitely money to be made by proponents of the anthropogenic global warming theory, as well as the skeptics.

I don't see any of the skeptics demanding that force be used to take my money.

But the carbon-cult, anti-human types do call for a carbon tax, collected through the use of force and by the threat of it.

reply to post by Exuberant1


I totally agree, but I'm sure they will say that coal and oil companies stand to benefit from climate denial (which they do), and that they are behind the whole thing (which they aren't).

Originally posted by BobbinHood
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

I totally agree, but I'm sure they will say that coal and oil companies stand to benefit from climate denial (which they do), and that they are behind the whole thing (which they aren't).

Who will say this?

The carbon-cultist, anti-human people?

The ones who blew up the children in that commercial?


Mate, they're nuts. No one believes nutcases.

reply to post by Exuberant1


A controversial advertisement does not prove that the actual scientists behind global warming are nutcases. Well, here's one of your scientists:



Maker of the "32,000 scientists" petition.

So essentially according to him:
1. AIDS is a conspiracy.
2. Speed of light takes 1.5 seconds for to transmit information across the country.
3. Public schools are bad.
4. Distributing nuclear waste over America or the oceans is a good idea.
5. Sarcasm means asking question.
6. Radiation is good for you.
7. When someone asks you a question it's a smear campaign.
8. More nuclear weapon testing is needed.
9. Negro's have the intelligence of 10 year olds and this should be taught to children.
10. Global warming is fake.
He is a man who denies his own words.


All very common viewpoints within the deluded AGW denial crowd I might add. Like Art Robinson, they are also often funded through groups like Koch industries. What kind of person would believe someone like Art Robinson?

Originally posted by BobbinHood
Global warming is a complicated issue. There are A LOT more variables on our huge planet than there are in a couple of plastic containers.

This is a true statement. And it's supported by this graph which doesn't show a very high degree of correlation between CO2 levels and global temperatures over the last 600 million years:

Atmospheric CO2 Levels Over Geologic Time
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a12e97e335ab.png[/atsimg]

Actually it looks like atmospheric CO2 levels are getting dangerously low lately by historical standards. There does appear to be some weak correlation between CO2 and global temperature, but as BobbinHood said, the global climate is way more complicated than the simple science experiment with a couple of jars suggests.

I wonder though if the CO2 concentration in the second bottle is proportional to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere? Just from the way they were doing it, I would guess the the gas in those bottles was primarily CO2, which is hardly representative of the atmosphere.

I don't think the bulk of the argument of "climate deniers" (interesting choice of words BTW) is that CO2 is not a GHG. In fact I would contend that most CDers would agree that it is, they just don't buy into the whole AGW idea. CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have been WAY higher in the past and life on Earth did not cease.

If you care so much about the truth and the climate, then have your global warming high priest Al Gore debate with Lord Christopher Monckton. Monckton has shown through tons and tons of research how the scientists are not only wrong about global warming but even if they were right the solutions they offer won't work and aren't even the most cost effective methods.

People are starving all around the world right now and what are governments subsidizing farmland for? Not more food but for biofuel so we can cut back our carbon dioxide output. So right now as we speak someone is starving or going hungry due to the fear caused by global warming (which is unfounded). Carbon dioxide isn't a pollutant it is one of the main reasons life exists on this planet. I mean we exhale the stuff and nature has its own way of balancing it with increased plant growth and ocean absorbtion. Humans are only contributing an extra 3% of the annual global carbon dioxide produced. This is a very insignificant number and I am sure that nature has in its arsenal a tool to deal with this. The Earth isn't as fragile as you think and it can take care of it self as it has for the last 4.5 billion years.

Carbon dioxide makes up about 390 ppmv or 0.039% of the Earth's atmosphere. Source Water vapour makes up about 0.4% of the total atmosphere and about 1%-4% at the surface. Water vapour is 2-8 times more powerful of a greenhouse gas then CO2 depending on what numbers you use. Source So a more effective way of reducing global temperatures would be to build dehumidifiers in humid areas around the world to prevent temperatures from rising. This would be a much more effective way of controlling our planets temperature (even though we don't need to) than placing economy destroying carbon taxes on goods and energy.

Some videos to review: youtube
Article

reply to post by mc_squared


i do not understand your problem with denial, why is accepting the idea so important? i thought goverments were already doing everything they can to cut co2, why do they need deniers to believe it?

recycling is already set up across almost all the u.k.(not sure about america or else where), it just makes sense to switch things off, because it makes your bills cheaper, what does it matter if i believe or not as long as i am doing everything i can to look after the planet? i believe in looking after the planet, but if i denied co2 what difference does it make?

its almost like a religion and people are offended if you do not believe it.

industry/business/consumerism far out weighs what people do, yet here we are again worrying about what everyday normal people believe rather than what is actually being done to cut co2 by governments/business/industry. unless you think the world has a chance to be saved if normal people recycle cereal boxes rather than industry etc, making more friendly things in more friendly ways with as little impact on earth as possible.

the system has been set up and needs to change, it dos'nt matter what people believe untill that happens, because it won't make a difference, unless this is just to push tax of course, then i can fully understand going nuts at people for not believing it whilst big companies and governments rape and pillage the earth.