Didn't know Obama lowered your taxes? Thought he raised them? You're not alone.

Originally posted by Califemme
Well, first of all, you live in the UK. Sorry, I hear it used to be a pretty cool place.

Second, we don't want your stinky socialized healthcare, and never said we did. The only people who don't have health "care" in this country are the people who could not find a full time job doing something they were good at, because if they did, they would have benefits that include health "care". But somehow because they didn't do that, but I did, I'm supposed to feel bad and resposnible? That's what charity is for. Oh well, then there's everyone else... whether you are here legally or illegally you can walk into any hospital emergency room and be taken care of, including surgeries, transplants and medications. The only difference is that the hospital actually tries to recoup some of those costs by asking people to pay for their care. Some people can and do, some people can't and don't. And it's still waaaaaaaaaay better than what you people in the UK get. Again, sorry about all that.

Now, there are people who own businesses in America, and somebody decided to make every single employer an agent of the government who can take taxes out of your agreed-upon-pay and send it to the government. It's ridiculous that people expect the government to take care of them in the first place. It's not the governments business what I eat, how much I spend, how much I save, where I work, what I do with my free time. I don't need a nanny, like you do in the UK.

The government's J-O-B is to protect us from enemies, foreign and domestic. In other words, keep criminals in jail and go after people who commit crimes. Personally, they are not even very good at this.

The UK is still a great place and brilliant country mate. I'd invite you to visit and see for yourself of course.

If you don't want the socialized health care system we have here then you should be happy President Obama's plan was nothing like ours. I'm actually quite fond of our National Health Service but if it's not for you, that's fine too, we do have private-payer here as well.

For exactly what the job of federal government is in your nation I would refer you to your constitution, it covers quite a bit more than policing and defense, and that's before you even get into amendments. For state governments you'll have to check your given state's constitution but I haven't seen one yet that only covers defense.

Originally posted by Califemme
Well, first of all, you live in the UK. Sorry, I hear it used to be a pretty cool place.

Second, we don't want your stinky socialized healthcare, and never said we did. The only people who don't have health "care" in this country are the people who could not find a full time job doing something they were good at, because if they did, they would have benefits that include health "care". But somehow because they didn't do that, but I did, I'm supposed to feel bad and resposnible? That's what charity is for. Oh well, then there's everyone else... whether you are here legally or illegally you can walk into any hospital emergency room and be taken care of, including surgeries, transplants and medications. The only difference is that the hospital actually tries to recoup some of those costs by asking people to pay for their care. Some people can and do, some people can't and don't. And it's still waaaaaaaaaay better than what you people in the UK get. Again, sorry about all that.

Now, there are people who own businesses in America, and somebody decided to make every single employer an agent of the government who can take taxes out of your agreed-upon-pay and send it to the government. It's ridiculous that people expect the government to take care of them in the first place. It's not the governments business what I eat, how much I spend, how much I save, where I work, what I do with my free time. I don't need a nanny, like you do in the UK.

The government's J-O-B is to protect us from enemies, foreign and domestic. In other words, keep criminals in jail and go after people who commit crimes. Personally, they are not even very good at this.

Have you experienced socialized healthcare? I have and guess where, right here in America, in our Armed Forces. I've also experienced my present private healthcare. Let me tell ya, I'd take that socialized healthcare in a heartbeat.

Unemployed people are not the only people without healthcare. To take it further though, what about having healthcare and then your provider getting tired of you because you have cancer and your treatments are costing them too much so they drop you?

You don't even realize the possibilities of healthcare reform. You harp that you have a job and thus you have healthcare. You aren't even living the American dream. You're living the dream that has been sold to you by rich people and corporations, that you can come work for them and they'll give you healthcare...plus a check. The American dream is having your own business. With this healthcare reform, you can quit your job and start a business of your own AND have healthcare. Because your healthcare is no longer tied to your job. Because that's what we currently have, a persons healthcare is tied to a job. Tell me that isn't slavery? Tell me you haven't never met a person who wanted to switch jobs but they enjoyed their current healthcare too much? If you can, I'll say you're too young then.

Please don't count emergency room treatment as healthcare. Have you ever went to a emergency room for treatment? Treatment is exactly what you get, treatment that will stabilize you and then you're sent back into the streets. What if you have high blood pressure and need medicine? They will stabilize you and then inform you to go see a primary care physician....gasp...but you don't have one!

Stop fighting against the government, because if it wasn't for government life in America would be hell. Have you taken a peek at Somalia or any of the other countries that lack in government? If the American government wasn't as strong as it is, our gangs would rule the country. Historical gangsters would have become kings because local level law enforcement couldn't contend with them. Do you know how many Bloods, Crips, Hell's Angels, Disciples, etc there are? Local enforcement could do NOTHING with them if it weren't for the federal government!

Why shouldn't our government take care of us, which to break down to it's fiber...why shouldn't we take care of each other because WE are the government.

You say the governments JOB is to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic lets put it this way. If I hired you to take care of me and my family and keep us from all harm, how good would you be at it if....you weren't allowed in my house, and I didn't want you to follow us, and I didn't want to pay you, etc. How effective would you be at your job.

Just one example of taxes going up. And no, taxes aren't limited to just Federal Income Tax. Obama himself said ANY TAX.

Obama Tax Pledge Up in Smoke

The largest increase in tobacco taxes took effect despite Obama's promise not to raise taxes of any kind on families earning under $250,000 or individuals under $200,000.

This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke than the rich.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

Originally posted by Califemme
National Debt Up $3 Trillion on Obama's Watch

And you are all so happy that Obama *maybe" lowered your taxes... phhhffftftt.

Oh, and please take note it's not from your hated "Fox News" channel...


And just in case you want the Bush v Obama comparison:
Republicans in control for 12 years: Added $4.034 trillion (avg $336.17 billion per year)
Republicans in control during Bush era: Added $3.201 trillion (avg $533.5 billion per year)
Democrats in control of Congress during Bush/Obama era: Added $4.603 trillion (avg 1.48 trillion per year)

edit on 19-10-2010 by Califemme because: Comparison reasons

Shusssh. Don't let them know, that you know extreme debt = higher taxes. They want you to believe that the debt fairy is going to make it magically disappear...and it won't ever raise your taxes....

reply to post by camaro68ss


Well to avoid the rhetoric I ask again, How do you expect to pay for everything the government has done ie., healthcare and this ten year war?

There's only one answer, and that answer is taxes. The common sense thing we've forgotten or just refuse to admit, is that taxes are necessary.

Obama's slight tax cut is easily offset by the increases in the prices of food, most goods, and increased medical insurance premiums all a result of government policies making the business environment more expensive. Obama's burden on business has driven up taxes on the most vulnerable of us, the people who don't have an income but still have to pay more for food.

reply to post by daddyroo45


I'll bet you're concentrating on healthcare reform, which is at least a attempt at providing something for the people. But you totally ignore the ten year war?

Originally posted by daddyroo45

Originally posted by Califemme
National Debt Up $3 Trillion on Obama's Watch

And you are all so happy that Obama *maybe" lowered your taxes... phhhffftftt.

Oh, and please take note it's not from your hated "Fox News" channel...


And just in case you want the Bush v Obama comparison:
Republicans in control for 12 years: Added $4.034 trillion (avg $336.17 billion per year)
Republicans in control during Bush era: Added $3.201 trillion (avg $533.5 billion per year)
Democrats in control of Congress during Bush/Obama era: Added $4.603 trillion (avg 1.48 trillion per year)

edit on 19-10-2010 by Califemme because: Comparison reasons

Shusssh. Don't let them know, that you know extreme debt = higher taxes. They want you to believe that the debt fairy is going to make it magically disappear...and it won't ever raise your taxes....

LOL - The Debt Fairy!! I love it! As for those pesky taxes only businesses have to pay, I must quote Fred Thompson from the RNC speech he gave in 2008:

They tell you they are not going to tax your family.

No, they're just going to tax "businesses"! So unless you buy something from a "business", like groceries or clothes or gasoline ... or unless you get a paycheck from a big or a small "business", don't worry ... it's not going to affect you.

Reply to post by DZAG Wright

Necessary to pay for things I never wanted or needed?

If a collective wants a thing and the collective decides to pay for that thing that's fine. Where I get pissed is when that collective decides those existing outside of itself have to pay too. In effect they are admitting the failure of their system. They are admitting it cant survive on whats paid in by only those who want to participate and it needs to funded by those who will not participate as well. Given enough time, roughly 40-50 years, it will become unsustainable. Nearly every nationalized healthcare program is weakening and showing signs of needing massive cuts after about that time. Still, only delaying the inevitable.

Either the thing they want has to become dirt cheap, the source of financing has to become infinite or they have to stop the program altogether.

It's like filtering piss for water. Once or twice through that might work but eventually without new water you will die.


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reply to post by wutone


Businesses raising prices etc., are only the horse bucking.

Have you ever broken a horse in? See the horse is used to walking around doing what it want. When the cowboy decides enough is enough and he's going to break that horse, he lassoes it and hops on its back. BOY that horse goes to bucking and kicking trying to make the cowboy let him loose. It wants the cowboy off its back because it wants to do what it wants when it wants. After a while, if the cowboy holds on, that horse breaks though.

Same thing with this economy and the businesses. They're just trying to throw the cowboy (which is really us, all the people) off their back. Shhhh....this a secret but, if you let go the horse will learn it can get its way if it begins bucking.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by Califemme

 

Business taxes should go up and needed too for a long time.

What does Obama have to do with the other stuff?

Spoken like a true employee.......

Pray tell, how much in taxes should I as a small business owner have to pay as a percent?

Just curious, to see what your number is.......

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


You say things you never wanted or asked for...are you a "me only" person? You haven't fallen for the corporate propaganda that everyone should be rugged and live on their own have you?

If you have that is so 18th-20th century. We're evolving past that, if only people of power will allow us and the people who are being influenced by said people will also.

Our society, no our WORLD is trying to move to the next step, but we have people who want to return to 1825 and KEEP that way of living. How arse backwards is that? Your life and everyone else life can be alot easier if we all worked together. A fist is strong, but a open hand can have a finger broken easier.

reply to post by pavil


Actually I work for myself...

I should have clarified that medium to large businesses and corporations should have their taxes raised.

Reply to post by DZAG Wright

Being me only may be very nineteenth century but seems to me taking from the mass to provide for the oligarchs is very fifteenth century.

Feudalism hasn't changed much. I remember there was a war here about that.

The comfort of full circle repetition.


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Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Have you experienced socialized healthcare? I have and guess where, right here in America, in our Armed Forces. I've also experienced my present private healthcare. Let me tell ya, I'd take that socialized healthcare in a heartbeat.

Unemployed people are not the only people without healthcare. To take it further though, what about having healthcare and then your provider getting tired of you because you have cancer and your treatments are costing them too much so they drop you?

You don't even realize the possibilities of healthcare reform. You harp that you have a job and thus you have healthcare. You aren't even living the American dream. You're living the dream that has been sold to you by rich people and corporations, that you can come work for them and they'll give you healthcare...plus a check. The American dream is having your own business. With this healthcare reform, you can quit your job and start a business of your own AND have healthcare. Because your healthcare is no longer tied to your job. Because that's what we currently have, a persons healthcare is tied to a job. Tell me that isn't slavery? Tell me you haven't never met a person who wanted to switch jobs but they enjoyed their current healthcare too much? If you can, I'll say you're too young then.

Please don't count emergency room treatment as healthcare. Have you ever went to a emergency room for treatment? Treatment is exactly what you get, treatment that will stabilize you and then you're sent back into the streets. What if you have high blood pressure and need medicine? They will stabilize you and then inform you to go see a primary care physician....gasp...but you don't have one!

Stop fighting against the government, because if it wasn't for government life in America would be hell. Have you taken a peek at Somalia or any of the other countries that lack in government? If the American government wasn't as strong as it is, our gangs would rule the country. Historical gangsters would have become kings because local level law enforcement couldn't contend with them. Do you know how many Bloods, Crips, Hell's Angels, Disciples, etc there are? Local enforcement could do NOTHING with them if it weren't for the federal government!

Why shouldn't our government take care of us, which to break down to it's fiber...why shouldn't we take care of each other because WE are the government.

You say the governments JOB is to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic lets put it this way. If I hired you to take care of me and my family and keep us from all harm, how good would you be at it if....you weren't allowed in my house, and I didn't want you to follow us, and I didn't want to pay you, etc. How effective would you be at your job.

Yes, I have experienced socialized healthcare, my dad was military. It was actually better than most of the world's socialized medicine precisely because it's here in America.

As for your "what if I" scenarios.... so what if I do? Is that YOUR problem, or mine? If I get a disease, or cancer, is it my employer's fault that I can't do my job? Should they be penalized? Or is it MY fault, through genetics, diet, exercise, or what have you... isn't it then MY responsibility if I want to live?


Should I live the "American Dream" by expecting others to do for me if I can't? Is it MY responsibility to give every homeless person money who asks for it? Is it MY responsibility to feed the masses who either won't or don't take care of themselves?

Do you? Is that what I should spend my days doing, taking care of everyone else's needs over my own? You talk of "slavery" but isn't that exactly what you are asking ME to do? Subsidize everyone ELSE'S shortcomings in healthcare, food and housing?

You say "Stop fighting against the government, because if it wasn't for government life in America would be hell" but I don't see anywhere in the constitution that says that government must provide jobs, healthcare, housing and food. If you see that, please point that part out. I must have missed that part when I read it.

Perhaps you are unaware that the "American Dream" is that anyone, from anywhere can come here, with $0.00 and make a way for themselves, per their own ability, sweat and conviction.

Whether it is health care, education, employment or most other areas of our lives, I ask you: Who has the capacity to master all the complexity to make choices on behalf of others? Each of us possesses only a tiny percentage of the knowledge that would be necessary to make totally informed decisions in our own lives, much less the lives of others. There is only one reason for the forcible transference of decision-making authority over important areas of our private lives to elite decision-makers in Congress and government bureaucracies. Doing so confers control, power, wealth and revenue to society’s elite. What’s in the best interests of individual members of society, such as a person who’d rather launch a landscaping business than purchase a health insurance policy, ranks low on the elite’s list of priorities.

frontpagemag.com...

I guess my point is that YOU are responsible for you and yours, and if you can't or won't, then you are headed down the path of slavery, not this soft socialism where we are at now. If the government CAN'T do it's J-O-B that it is tasked to do by the American people without coming into my house, following me around and stealing from me and the next generation, then perhaps it's time to revert back to the constitution for answers. Now if only there was some group advocating a return to those days.... Taxed Enough Already Party, anyone?

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Why stop there? Small business, lemonade stands, garage sales... what's the difference?

And who gets to decide? YOU?!?

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Ok..... still whats the number for those businesses?

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Well to avoid the rhetoric I ask again, How do you expect to pay for everything the government has done ie., healthcare and this ten year war?

There's only one answer, and that answer is taxes. The common sense thing we've forgotten or just refuse to admit, is that taxes are necessary.

Right!! Like the DEATH TAX!!!! Because it's YOUR fault if YOU DIE!!

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


There's the problem that must be corrected. We want to make sure there aren't any kings/queens sitting on top of everyone living better, but other than that, everyone working together for the better of everyone is a utopia.

Since we're here on this website, consider we actually contact a advanced civilization. Do you think it would be a capitalistic civilization? If so, we're in serious trouble, because Dragonball Z, Saiyan style, our planet will be sold to the highest bidder.

If we encounter a civilization advanced beyond war and other juvenile curses, you can bet their society would be some type of socialism.

Reply to post by DZAG Wright

Too funny how the "next step of civilization"'crowd so often comes to the inevitable "when we meet aliens" conclusion.

There is just as much dystopian and libertarian scifi as there is magic replicable provides for all utopian socialist scifi. Turn off the Star Trek and pick up a book. Or at the very least stop forming your opinions of authoritarianism on the off chance a bunch of happy Borg will look down on us as a whole for not forcibly assimilating people like myself.


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