Replacement for SA80

(Not sure if this post is breaching forum code)
(My information is based upon reports and other peoples opinions)

Why is the Britsh army equipped with the SA80 still, why not replace it with a rifle that can actually work properly in desert enviroments.
If we send troops into a hostile enviroment then they should go in knowing that their rifles work 99.99% of the time.
Why not replace the SA80 with the G36 a tried and tested weapon that they should be comfortable using

(i'd like to hear American views on this as their troops in a iraq are given gunsthat work most of the time)

I was reading just yesterday about this issue.

I have read that the new SA80A2 that has been modified by H&K is a very reliable weapon. I also read that the British Army will probably be using the weapon for a quite a few more years yet. I wouldn't mind seeing it replaced by the G36 though as that is a tried and tested great weapon.

[edit on 26/6/04 by Hyperen]

the SA80 is meant to be a heavy rifle for it's size and require alot of maintaince is all enviroments,

Originally posted by UK Wizard
the SA80 is meant to be a heavy rifle for it's size and require alot of maintaince is all enviroments,

Yeah and it makes it more dangerous for some people to shoot because it can only be operated from right handed configuration because it is bullpup I read.

I tried to find the site by looking though my History but couldn't find it



[edit on 26/6/04 by Hyperen]

i agree they need to replace that rifle as fast as they can not only dose it fail when you need it most but the troops are being outgunned because they have a crappy rifle.

it is a sad day when the once great british army can't fight properly alongside our American allies, we have the training and the courage but we can't fight without weapons that work

the sa80 (or L85A2's- the sa80 i think is the carbine version of the L85) is eventually planned to be replaced with the G36.. i think i read it here:

www.world.guns.ru...

-koji K.

Originally posted by Hyperen


Yeah and it makes it more dangerous for some people to shoot because it can only be operated from right handed configuration because it is bullpup I read.
[edit on 26/6/04 by Hyperen]

This is an inherent problem with all bullpup designs due to the mechanism being back by the firers face. The cartridge case would be ejected into the firers cheek. Standard layout weapons have the cartridge case ejection forward, so if you fire it left handed, the cartridges just fly across infront of you.

[edit on 26-6-2004 by minimi]

i still can't understand how the british government promotes the use of the SA80 when there are other guns that are much better and cheaper to maintain - G36 would be good

Yay! I've found the site I was on about earlier after some long hard searching

Here it is

It costs alot of ������������ to cmpletely reequip an army, navy, and some RAF units with a new assault rifle, though it probably would have been cheaper if they used the money that they spent on redesign towards it. I just don't think they could justify the cost at the time, so our guys will have to wait for a better gun. Whats strange is, the LSW seems brilliant.

We were discussing possible replaements here a while ago. Check the search, it was a pretty good thread.

BTW, welcome to ATS UK Wizard.

thanks minimi, ATS is great

I still think it's scary that we have idiots (politicians) in charge of what guns our troops have, i'd like to see us using either the G36 or the F2000
on second thought G36 is best because it's not a bullpup design


thanks for the site Hyperen

[edit on 26-6-2004 by UK Wizard]

Here we go, some discussion mixed in with the SSBN thread:
link


And the official FN site f2000 page for your perusal.

I wanna see a pic of one with detachable 12 guage!

Heres another thread with some f2000/g36 discussion: link

[edit on 26-6-2004 by minimi]

I`ve used it never gave me any problems as long as the mech was regularly cleaned.It`s when you have lazy people who after a long day on stag decide to shower there balls rather than clean there weapon.Most front line units are more clued up as they rely on there weapons more.
The cost to replace was way to much.The total buy for SA80 was 332,092.At 92/93 prices this cost the MOD �384.16 million.

The Royal Navy have 7,864 weapons
" " Marines have 8,350
RAF have 42,221
MOD PLOD have 1,878
Army have 271,779

The modified Sa80a2 was introduced in 2001.The temp to round before fail rate are


U.K Temp - 31,500 rounds
Brunnei Hot Wet-31,500 rounds
kuwait Hot Dry-7,875 rounds
Alaska Cold Dry-31,500 rounds

In late 2001 the British Army Combat Shooting team took part in the Australian Army Skills at arms com using the SA80A2.Teams from eight other countries took part using a various other weapons.Britain won the comp.The team fired 21,000 rounds in 9 days without problems.

thanks for the info minimi

i think the G36 would be the best replacement rifle

from the info it looks like the SA80 doesn't work when it's hot and/or dusty

[edit on 26-6-2004 by UK Wizard]

you know who is going to win that competition next time the americans with their metal storm tech you could fire 21.000 rounds in 20 sec o less

[edit on 27-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

Most new guns not only the SA80 dont worked that great in desert conditions sand blowning around doesnt help the M-4 out that much either you have to clean them a whole lot. On the other hand the good old AK seems not to mind the desert or any condition for that matter. Some US troops have been allowed to use AKs due to supply problems and they seem to love them in Iraq. Another thing I never liked about the SA80 was in was not designed to have a gernade launcher attached too it. I hope they have found a way to equip them with gernade launchers by now

It is definitely an interesting situation. Should they replace the SA80 or keep upgrading it until it works? I just hope these polititions can reach a decision without it costing peoples lives. eg. if they decide to keep SA80 and it jams in a firefight or the cover melts or something.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
you know who is going to win that competition next time the americans with their metal storm tech you could fire 21.000 rounds in 20 sec o less

[edit on 27-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

Yeah but you wouldn`t hit jack s**t.

yes you would the target wouldn't be there after its hit but you would hit it. all you have to do it point it in the right direction all those bullets your bound to hit something