Defaulting On Home Loans and the Banking Conspiracy

Originally posted by Stewie
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I am sure that you will agree that there are at the most basic level two kinds of debt. Legitimate and Illegitimate.

Sorry to butt in here, but legitimacy and illegitimacy are determined by the agreed upon moral standards of society or by whomever they elect as their representatives.

The only way to truly tell if an action is good or bad without outside determination is to ask yourself, "does this ultimately help me and those around me to survive better." Obviously extending beyond your own family but considering everyone involved. An example is stealing something to help your family eat. Maybe it will help you and your family, but now what if that family you stole from can't eat?

Other than that, morals are simply the agreed upon rules in any given group, society or race and right and wrong are determined along those lines. What TPTB see as legitimate may not agree with what you see as legitimate.

That was a little convoluted but hopefully it makes sense.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I would hate to imagine what TPTB have in store for society. We all know what the dark ages were like and that was without todays modern technology.

I would hate to have to walk around going, "vroom! vroom!"


I also have a feeling some of us are going to be weeded out much like this.

reply to post by dbloch7986

Thanks for the reply, but, NO, it doesn't make sense to me.

Perhaps you did not understand my comment, but, it was not directed to you. So, perhaps you took it out of context.

reply to post by Stewie


I think I did.

I was just trying to say the idea of legitimacy and illegitimacy are relative terms. There are a lot of grey areas. The person who owes the debt and the person who own the debt may have completely different ideas of what legitimate and illegitimate debts are.

reply to post by dbloch7986

To clarify my point, how can a newborn baby be born into "legitimate" debt? The baby contracted with nobody.
If the baby understood before birth that being born would mean working to pay someone else's debt off, perhaps the baby would say, "no thanks".
Do you see the absurdity? The fact that this cannot be legitimate for obvious reasons?
The entire notion that a country can pass debt off to future generations is criminal.

To all of you that are against the "evil bankers"...I have a simple solution for you...don't do business with them.

Don't take out loans, don't have checkings/savings accounts, don't use credit cards, don't buy any stocks...and most of all DON'T USE ANY MONEY.

That's right...don't use money...since you all think the evil banks create this money out of thin air. If you are doing any of the above...you are a huge hypocrite.


Now for the BIG question...how many of you DO use the services listed above??? And How many of you are in some sort of credit/loan trouble???

I'm guessing most of you...which is why you think the banks are evil...because you own them money.


Because this is what is wrong with the country today...instead of taking responsibility for being in that credit/loan/money trouble....people want to blame someone else.


It is seriously sad...and very hard...to keep seeing these threads pop up on ATS....just crying and complaining and looking to place all the blame for individuals poor choices onto someone else.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Thank you for saying what I was thinking.

Seems to me people are just whining and looking to blame someone else for their inability to use the tools provided for them effectively.

I didn’t hear anyone whining in the 90’s when the bank loaned them $200k / nothing down and then they turned around and sold the house for $250 a few years later. They took that $50k profit and pocketed it. Now the bubble has burst and is reclaiming all these false profits back from consumer’s pockets.

The bank provides a tool for a consumer to use to borrow money for better or worse. Obviously now things are worse, but again, no one complained in the 90’s when that borrowed money made them a ton of cash.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Because this is what is wrong with the country today...instead of taking responsibility for being in that credit/loan/money trouble....people want to blame someone else.


It is seriously sad...and very hard...to keep seeing these threads pop up on ATS....just crying and complaining and looking to place all the blame for individuals poor choices onto someone else.

I'm sure dbloch and others will be here shortly to point out some problems with your post, but I think you're right that most of us probably have made bad choices, which tends to color our outlook.

But it's not that simple. I think dbloch made a pretty good case for the notion that the entire SYSTEM is causing most of what we see, which may actually be a more important issue than poor individual choices.

Why does the single mother take out that line of credit, even though the interest rate seems high, and even though she suspects it might be a struggle to keep up with the payments? It may not be because she "needs" a fur coat! Often, it might be something like her child has a need, that society doesn't adequately address. Could be medical, or maybe more mundane, she has a child in the public school, that is falling between the cracks, and this mother decides she is going to "sacrifice" so that child can go to a private school instead.

This example may not be as "rare" as we might think, the point being, perhaps many times, people go into debt for what they may believe are "responsible" reasons, not selfish ones. Is the single mother "wise" in this example? Perhaps not, but who is to say for sure? Really, the entire SYSTEM is a problem, the more we look into it. And I haven't even touched on "why" the poor gal is a single mother yet!

You perhaps facetiously mentioned banks making money out of thin air. Hopefully, you know that this is essentially the case today. If anyone doubts it, go back and look at Ron Paul's exchange with Fed Chairman Bernanke, where Paul says exactly that the Fed is creating money out of "thin air", and Bernanke agrees with him. This isn't really controversial, although I do occasionally run into people who are surprised that such a thing goes on.

Can we really effectively "opt out" of "their" system? Well, as Proto pointed out in other places, one example of people mostly doing that is the Amish. But is the average person ready for that? Obviously not.

While completely opting out may be impractical, I believe that one step in a more responsible direction is to try and take more personal responsibility by buying precious metals, which are a more "natural" form of currency, with a huge history. This natural currency does in fact "compete" with the fiat money system, which is precisely why gold is rising in terms of all paper currencies, not just the dollar. It retains value, even as fiat paper is failing more and more in this crisis to retain "value".

Anyway, looking forward to a lively debate in this thread, I think dbloch is right on, our collective awareness needs to be raised before we can ever expect improvement.

S & F.

JR

Great thread D. Thanks for starting the topic

I have nothing to add really other than the US is one of the WORST societies on the planet when it comes to saving money. It wasn't always this way. People would set a goal (buy a house, land etc), save the money over a couple of years and then reach their goal.

The way pricing has inflated on homes, land, cars since the advent of extended-credit, it would take decades for the average family to save enough for a 1-time payment of a house or land and even some cars.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

It is seriously sad...and very hard...to keep seeing these threads pop up on ATS....just crying and complaining and looking to place all the blame for individuals poor choices onto someone else.

Do us all a favor and start out by reading the 'Creature from Jeckyll Island' detailing the makings of the Federal Reserve Act.

There is a International Banking Conspiracy that has been not just destroying people but nations and it dates back hundreds of years.

Trust me nothing makes me sadder than people posting on a dedicated conspiracy site, that have done NO research on any of the conspiracies they keep attempting to deny out of hand.

The evidence of an International Banking Conspiracy is overwhelming and heavily documented.

Because this is what is wrong with the country today...instead of taking responsibility for being in that credit/loan/money trouble....people want to blame someone else.

As I have mentioned to you elsewhere you have an amazing propensity to look on at the most superficial aspect of a problem and not the underlying factors that contribute to the problem.

In a world with ideal and well maintained socio-economic conditions no, epedimic numbers like these would simply not be present.

Last month more Americans lost their homes to foreclosure than any other month in the history of the United States.

Over 800,000 Americans have lost their homes so far this year, with several hundred thousand more in the process of losing them.

If you really think that is the result of people simply having bad budgeting practices you are really not paying attention.

I'm guessing most of you...which is why you think the banks are evil...because you own them money.

I owe no one money, though lots of people do owe me money.

ATS is not about guessing, it's about researching root problems and conspiracies, is there some reason you don't want people knowing the facts?

You seem to gravitate towards these threads,

To all of you that are against the "evil bankers"...I have a simple solution for you...don't do business with them.

Don't take out loans, don't have checkings/savings accounts, don't use credit cards, don't buy any stocks...and most of all DON'T USE ANY MONEY.

That's right...don't use money...since you all think the evil banks create this money out of thin air. If you are doing any of the above...you are a huge hypocrite.

It would help if you first had a 'clue' before you started advising people on what to do.

The nation and the world is on the tip of an iceburg that threatens to consume it entirely.

Not really interested that you don't like the fact that some people are genuinely interested in dealing with that in non-dogmatic cliche ways.

Even the majority of ATS's most conservative and skeptical minds will concede there is likely a Bank Conspiracy at play.

You obviously have done no research on the industry or it's history and aren't interested too, do you really imagine those who are dedicated to doing research and getting to the bottom of it and correcting it are going to be disuaded or persuaded by your weak arguments and silly attempts to admonish and shame people.

People like that are a huge part of the problem.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Do us all a favor and start out by reading the 'Creature from Jeckyll Island' detailing the makings of the Federal Reserve Act.

There is a International Banking Conspiracy that has been not just destroying people but nations and it dates back hundreds of years.

This annoys me. I know all about the Federal Reserve and have for years, which is PRECICELY why I was not dumb enough to borrow more than I could afford to pay. Also, I always made sure to leave reserve equity in my house.

I have been one of those people who passed around Jekyll Island long before the crash. I have been going to Tea Parties since 2007 holding signs that said “Support HR1207: Audit the Federal Reserve”

I knew this bubble would burst and anyone familiar with the truth about fractional reserve banking should have known better than to be sitting on an inflated house with no equity. If you’re already were educated in these things you should have been a person who was above making the mistakes that others have made.

I expect those who were in the dark to whine about things, not those who have already been enlightened.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


Well if you consider hopeful attempts at educating others to the underlying factors involved in a huge and mounting prolem whining, well...

I would suggest this to you, no man is an island, and what you know is only as useful as your ability to put it to good use.

The best use for what you know is helping others learn it.

Them not knowing it, can in fact have an adverse impact on you, and has whether you recognize it or not.

Ultimately the cost of people not knowing these things is passed on to us all, in the form of higher taxes, more rules, fewer liberties etc., etc.

People get to choices, be part of the problem, or be part of the solution, just knowing what the problem is does not make you not part of the problem, doing what you can though to help correct and end the problem makes you part of the solution.

Whining indeed!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree, but I have been trying to educate people for the last 10 years and no one ever wanted to listen.

Do you have any idea how many doors I knocked on in 2007 with Ron Paul literature in my hands where people said, "oh I don't think all that is going to happen. It'll all recover." while I explained, in vein, that we are screwed by this Fed conspiracy.

They just want to whine now that the SHTF. That's what I'm talking about. Maybe if a few people had woken up sooner we wouldn't be talking about this now. I'm just very frustrated, obviously. I got set off by the threads recently encouraging everyone to do a stategic default on their mortgages which is driving my home value down by the day. I planned for this collapse but many of you are just making the problem worse!

reply to post by JonInMichigan


Laugh out loud, don't look at me, I rent.

"I live in hotels and tear out the walls, I have accountants pay for it all".

You can't take it with you when you go, and since the government actually owns everything and can take everything through either failure to pay taxes or imminent domain owning something is just an illusion anyway.

I live a cash and carry life and only bank the funds that are required to make EFT payment obligations.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but your home's primary value to you should be for it's utility purpose, shelter, warmth, security. It's monetary value which is speculative which is what you seem to be worried about is the root of the problem.

The speculation on homes as vehicles of passive wealth generation is what has led to this mess.

The flipping of properties, the real estate investment groups, the sub prime market, the government subsidies.

The housing problem is going to be with us a long time and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

This was all a scheme to acquire them all by the banks. In a world were few people own gold or gems the only thing of real tangible durable value people have are their homes.

They are on a home stealing spree, and blaming it on the victims...well sure it's easy, and it might make you feel good, but what very few people know still to this day, even the small time fraud rings that helped facilitate a lot of the loans, is that they too were dupes in a much bigger and better thought out crime.

Personally I wouldn't blame the dupes, wannabees and genuine victims and idiots involved.

I would blame the people who conspiried to take advantage of and manipulate all those people in pulling off the greatest theft in U.S. History.

To date about 13 trillion dollars has been stolen by the Powers that Be in this scam.

Truly awe inspiring as crimes go. I shutter to think how they will top this one, but I know given time they will.

That one crime and theft sets up another.

That's what I am worried about the next crime, the next theft, that this one was a precursor towards.

Waking people up to the crime that has occured is the only thing that is possibly going to prevent the greater crime that will ensue.

If you think you have troubles now just wait until then!

The world really doesn't want saved, it's not easy waking up people to the fact that they are on a highway to hell.

Poor Bon Scott drank himself to death trying!

But we have to try. This is the tip of an iceburg.

The consequences of not waking up people will be beyond the pale.

We simply have to redouble our efforts!

Thanks.

reply to post by dbloch7986


Is this serious? A conspiracy?

Its funny, the more I am here the more I realize that all the paranoid are here at ATS and believe that there is a conspiracy for everything.

You folks do realize that the bank actually loses money when a home is f/c on, right?

Of course you guys dont....to the masses here it seems that there is an underground network who controls everything and also the banks. In addition, they are looking to take down the people by FORCING them to buy homes that they really dont want.

I dont mean to be rude...but guys, [SNIP]

reply to post by dbloch7986


spot on.. this is the "AWAKENING".. as some call it... we have been duped, miseducated and brainwashed..

those who say otherwise are too low in IQ or part of the problem...

we are SLAVES!!! blind slaves!!!!!!11

reply to post by dbloch7986


In addition, with this MERS debacle where the "paperwork" behind the mortgages has disappeared into cyberspace to facilitate the bundling of mortgages into derrivatives, so that Wall St. can make huge money. You can pay your mortgage through to fruition of the loan, but will you get a clean title to the property at the end of the loan? Hardly unlikely IMHO. They have no idea where the original document is.

What would you say if a stock market analyst showed you this picture?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/47cee30c6e38.jpg[/atsimg]

As I said on the other thread, do yo ureally think it was going to be this easy? This is a conspiracy, a conspiracy to commit fraud on a global scale. I hope this thread gets more attention than the one telling people that the banks have made a mistake so you're off the hook.

Originally posted by aew14
reply to post by dbloch7986

 

Is this serious? A conspiracy?

Its funny, the more I am here the more I realize that all the paranoid are here at ATS and believe that there is a conspiracy for everything.

You folks do realize that the bank actually loses money when a home is f/c on, right?

Of course you guys dont....to the masses here it seems that there is an underground network who controls everything and also the banks. In addition, they are looking to take down the people by FORCING them to buy homes that they really dont want.

I dont mean to be rude...but guys, [SNIP]

You obviously have not done your research and your statements are soooo WRONG! They make HUGE profits on foreclosures (thanks to our government).

I highly suggest you watch this video and get caught up with the CORRECT facts.



I don't mean to be rude - but I find people who make stated opinions and quote incorrect facts as reckless. So please put down your pipe and get educated.