U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

does this apply when only 35 of the virgins desire me even though we didn't marry? I wanted sex with all 70. If I earned my 70 virgins fair and square by blowing myself to smithereens I don't want to get ripped off! How do I marry all these virgins?

So my question about this whole topic is how do you prove you've been raped by your married spouse? I understand there are people who will try and have sex even when the partner isn't willing but what do you do about it? Do you videotape it as evidence??? Or is it one of those things that all the proof you need is the womans testimony?

Originally posted by jexmo
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

Thats just shallow. Love doesn't require sex. Elderly couples don't have sex and they still love eachother. You never heard of wanking?! I think it all depends on the type of person you are. I'd sacrifice sex for certainty that my partner would stay with me happily forever, but thats just the type of person I am.

Of course love doesn't require sex. They ARE different things. Sex is about our hormones and animal instincts. It is normal to desire sex while young.


I would rather have tons of sex with the person I love while I still can. Then when the desire is pratically non-existant (bye bye hormones!), and my wife and I are not able to do it anymore due to health issues (hello 100th birthday!) it will be love and companionship only. Then we will be able to brag about all the fun we had while we were young too har har


Till then I shall be enjoying life, with the person I chose to love and have my human desires fulfilled.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

The biggest cause of loss of libido in women these days is pressure and being too tired. Since the demands on women have increased to encompass bread winning as well as child nurturing.

Libido is nice and appreciated, but it isn't necessary. Only one of us has to be "up" for the job to get done!

All the women I have ever known are very much into it as soon as we get started. It is just overcoming that instinct to say "no" that is the problem. Once they give in, they usually get turned on and have a great time.

Surely you must know the difference between a woman doing it because it is happening and a woman doing it because she is turned on???

Or maybe you don't??

Korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


Re-read my second post.

I see you have not read it. I can quote myself but that would be quite stupid.

reply to post by getreadyalready

To answer the "cheating" question. It certainly is not cheating! Not if I was honest about it before we got married, and while we are married, and I haven't lied the whole time. Maybe it is "adultery" but it is not "cheating."

Cheating & adultery are interchangeable terms, they mean the same thing. It doesn't matter if your honest about it or not, if I kill someone and admit it does that mean I haven't committed murder?

To answer the "its her body" idea. I disagree. We are married, it is "our" body now! Seriously, if there is one person in the whole world that should always love you and always be willing to have sex with you, and always be willing to listen or hold or forgive, it should be your spouse. Otherwise, why would anybody ever get married? For the tax breaks?

I agree in part, of course there should be no one else in the world should be more willing to have sex with you than your partner but not everyone wants sex 24/7, just like there are times when you want to spend time away from your partner and hang out with your mates for example.

You seem to think that marriage is a one way ticket to guarantee you can have sex on tap.

As you said above, your partner should always be willing to listen or hold or forgive, so maybe in the future you should listen when your wife tells you that she isn't really in the mood for sex.

I would lay down my life to protect hers, it isn't asking too much to have her lie down for me a few times a week!

No matter how much of a super stud you think you are, even you will not feel like sex all the time, I have a very high sex drive and it's a rare occurence when I don't feel in the mood to "do the deed" but you have to respect your partners wishes.

With that in mind, on the off chance you didn't feel like having sex but your wife was horny and you turned her down, would you be happy if she slipped off out to a bar just so she could get some?

Lastly, I noticed you didn't answer the question about having sex with your wife knowing that she wasn't enjoying it and that she was only doing it to please you, that would be a massive turn off for me, as Korg has mentioned above you need to realise it's not all about you and your want to penetrate things.

Originally posted by Alora
So then it must not be possible for a wife to rape her husband? (read: sodomy) If the woman wants it, then the husband has to lay there and take it. Rules are rules, after all

Very good point, how ever i assume the argument against this is that sodomy is not a normal sex act in the eyes of god/allah so what the wife is doing is in fact wrong.

Originally posted by Korg Trinity

Originally posted by Roufas

I fail to see where you disagree with me? You actually agree there is a "problem" in the relationship when there is no sex.

If or when your partner suffers from any of the above... Would you just bin the relationship and get divorced just because you didn't get laid???

Originally posted by Roufas
Lost in libido due to hormonal circunstances, or "holding" off due to health issues are completely different matters (and tolerable too)

Originally posted by Korg Trinity
Do you see your error??

No

Originally posted by Roufas
Lost in libido due to hormonal circunstances, or "holding" off due to health issues are completely different matters (and tolerable too) than denying sex to your partner because you either :

-stopped "loving" him/her (?)
-feels like having sexual relationship with another person instead of your partner
-your partner does not care to make your sexual life "interesting" and neither do you
-you are just holding off because you depend financially on your husband (this one happens a lot...)

If you do feel that your partner is not in love with you anymore then there has been a severe breakdown in 1) Communication 2) Emotional Intimacy 3) Honesty and 4) Trust

The loss of these critical four things alone will result in a partner whom now has a mental issue with you as her partner. If you have got to this stage then sex would be the last thing on your partners mind.

Still nothing is unfixable.

You can rekindle what originally attracted her to you and you to her and move forward from there.... But only with 100% honest two way communication.

Do you see where I am coming from?

Korg.

reply to post by getreadyalready


It is coercion all right, and that is wrong. It is like a threat. To wife: "either you do it with me, or I will do it with someone else. Wrong, buddy! If I said that to my wife, she would slap my face, and I would deserve it. The truth is, women outnumber men by an every widening margin, and in my area, women seem to have their pick of men, I see foxy women with mediocre men all the time. Rape is rape, no matter how you slice it, or how you package it. It is still a crime against nature.

Originally posted by Alora
So then it must not be possible for a wife to rape her husband? (read: sodomy) If the woman wants it, then the husband has to lay there and take it. Rules are rules, after all

It's impossible to rape a willing "victim." I can't think of any man rejecting advances from his wife unless she's a nymph and he's absolutely worn out.

Besides, this cleric is the prime example of "Islam mentality": treat women like dirt.

Intimacy is suppose to be enjoyable experience. I just can't see what's enjoyable about taking something forcefully and getting any pleasure out of it.

To all the people who aren't Muslim yet they defend Islam: See what you're up against?

Originally posted by Americanist

U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

www.msnbc.msn.com

LONDON — A leading Muslim cleric has sparked controversy in Britain by claiming that it is impossible for men to rape their wives.
Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed, who is president of the Islamic Sharia Council, told a website that "sex is part of marriage" and suggested that husbands who commit such acts should not be prosecuted.

(visit the link for the full news article)

MAYBE SHEIK NEEDS A HAM BONE UP HIS YOU KNOW WHAT

reply to post by Death_Kron

Surely you must know the difference between a woman doing it because it is happening and a woman doing it because she is turned on???

Yes, I know the difference, and I'm not talking about physical responses, I'm talking about actually enjoying it. Sometimes sex sounds like too much "work" even to me. But, once you start to touch and undress, then things usually turn around and become very enjoyable for both partners.

As far as cheating and adultery, they are not interchangeable. Adultery is simply sleeping with somebody besides your wife. Cheating is doing something behind your wife's back that you would not want her to find out about. It can't possibly be cheating if you have permission.

Now, I don't want to sound like some maniac. I don't want sex 24/7, and I don't mind having to work a little to get it, and I don't mind being told no occasionally. The problem arises when you hear more no's than yes's! Generally your wife should be willing. Those days that she is feeling under the weather or exhausted are acceptable, but it shouldn't be all the time.

I mentioned the holding, listening, forgiving, understanding part, because I feel the marriage is 100% give and take. I am more than willing to do whatever she asks of me. I do not have the word "no" in my vocabulary when it comes to my wife. I will do the dishes, wash the dog, change the diapers, buy her the dress, take her out, rub her back, or build a new deck. I will do whatever she desires that is within my physical capability. The marriage is in no way all about me. When it comes to sex, I have the larger sex drive and it takes an effort on her part to keep up. When it comes to yard and house work, she has the larger drive and it is up to me to keep up.

Someone asked if I would return the favor. If I were ever unable to satisfy her, would I be willing to let her get her satisfaction elsewhere. The answer is a resounding YES! Sex is very important. I would much rather be involved in the process and selection and maybe even enjoy it a little compared to not having a clue what she is doing because I am close-minded and jealous.

Korg also asked if I minded having sex with my wife knowing she wasn't enjoying it. The answer is sometimes. It is much more fun when she is enjoying it, but occasionally I don't mind if she just wants me to get it over with. It can actually be kind of fun that way also. Kind of fetishy, but I wouldn't want it that way very often.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

It is coercion all right, and that is wrong. It is like a threat. To wife: "either you do it with me, or I will do it with someone else. Wrong, buddy! If I said that to my wife, she would slap my face, and I would deserve it. The truth is, women outnumber men by an every widening margin, and in my area, women seem to have their pick of men, I see foxy women with mediocre men all the time. Rape is rape, no matter how you slice it, or how you package it. It is still a crime against nature.

If women outnumber men, and if you often see foxy women with mediocre men, then it seems that us men have our pick? If I am a good provider, a loving husband, and a caring mate, and I also have an enormous sex drive, my options for women are limitless. I "choose" to be with my wife, and she "chooses" to be with me. Either one of us could choose someone different if we so desired. "Rape" is not a crime against nature by the way. "Rape" is the natural order of things. The animal kingdom thrives off of rape. Even in humans our hormonal urge to reproduce is stronger than our own will for personal safety. People often risk their lives in search of more sex. Rape is the way of nature. Marriage and monogamy is man's civilized version of reproduction, not natures.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
Up until 1991, it was not possible to rape your spouse under British Law.

We've only just changed it in our culture, within a generation ! Oh how quick we are to judge rather than remember that it was'nt rape in the UK until recently, our culture saw in differently.

Thank you for pointing this out

Although I looked it up recently for another thread, I don't remember the details, but the same is more or less true here in the USA (most states addressed this issue in the 1980s if I'm remembering right). Until very recently (past 30 years) all states had "spousal exception" clauses in their rape laws.

I bet you could still find a number of Jewish and Christian clerics, as well as general citizens and maybe even judges, who would agree that nonconsensual sex within a marriage should not be considered rape.

Of course this cleric is wrong, just as our laws were wrong until relatively recently (my opinion, of course). And it should be made perfectly clear that in our societies people will always have recourse to the secular criminal code that protects us regardless of faith. But we are very quick to judge a whole religion for something that the secular law has only recently corrected itself on.

Originally posted by EddieBee

Originally posted by Americanist

U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

www.msnbc.msn.com

LONDON — A leading Muslim cleric has sparked controversy in Britain by claiming that it is impossible for men to rape their wives.
Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed, who is president of the Islamic Sharia Council, told a website that "sex is part of marriage" and suggested that husbands who commit such acts should not be prosecuted.

(visit the link for the full news article)

MAYBE SHEIK NEEDS A HAM BONE UP HIS YOU KNOW WHAT

As long as it is his spouse doing the ramming, then he really couldn't complain according to his own message!

reply to post by getreadyalready


Think you got a little confused there, the quote you linked was from Korg and it was me who asked whether you would enjoy having sex with your wife is she wasn't enjoying it.

Once again, I'll stand by the fact that there is no distinction between adultery and cheating, whether it's done behind your wifes back or in front of her face it's still wrong, however now your mentioning having her permission which is something you didn't include before.

If you and your wife have an agreement that either of you can have sex with other people if one of you isn't in the mood then good for you, I'm not sure how you can love someone but at the same time allow them to have sex with someone else, but there you go...

Again, if you find having sex with your wife a turn on when she doesn't want it then great, if it gives you kicks then happy days.

Without being offensive but I'd say your interpretation of a healthy sex life and a partnership are very different compared to the vast majority of the population.

reply to post by Death_Kron


LOL! I think everyone's views on sex are different than the accepted norm, but not everyone is as open about it as I am. We all have differing levels of perversion, and I think that is just fine.

Also, let me reiterate that I have never had to have sex outside my marriage (at least not by myself), because I have been open with my wife from the time we first met, and I have made it clear that sex is a very high priority for me, and she chose to date me, and marry me, and satisfy me for the past 5 years.

The issue is with those women like my ex-wife, I was very open and honest with her as well, but for some reason she thought after we got married things would change? I have no idea why some women react to marriage in that way, but it is a common phenomenon, and most women get away with it, and the men just complain to their buddies, or they have elicit affairs. I refuse to resort to "cheating" and I refuse to allow the misrepresentation to stand!

I would rather be upfront and honest. "Honey, I love you, we make a great couple, but I have to have more sex. You tell me how to handle it. Can you do more, do we need a sexy nanny, would you prefer I hire professionals, go to the bar, what? The fact is, I don't want to get divorced, but I plan to have sex 2 or 3 times a week, with or without you. Your move."

reply to post by getreadyalready


Well like I said, and I'm not being sarcastic here, if that works for you and your wife then that's truly great.

Personally, I don't understand it as I couldn't and wouldn't want to have sex with anyone other than my girlfriend and I know she feels the same way about it, sure I get wound up a lot when she's not in the mood and sex is the only thing on my mind but like I mentioned before theres pornography and my good old trusty right hand for those circumstances.

Can I ask you a question? How can you justify loving your wife is you would be willing to have sex with another woman simply to satisfy your high sex drive? What happened to being faithful?

Not having a go but I don't see how you can love somebody but be prepared to have sex with someone else, you've already mentioned yourself that your supposed to love, hold and forgive your partner so it seems you have some sort of idea about love but the question remains..?

reply to post by Death_Kron


It is a valid question, because to be honest, I don't understand the flipside of that argument. What does loving someone have to do with having sex with someone else? It sounds noble, and it is politically correct, but the fact is that a very, very high percentage of marriages have infidelity. Does that mean they don't love each other?

I can honestly say that I have loved many women. I have also had sex with many women. The two lists are not mutually exclusive. Many of the women that I have loved were never sexual partners, and many of the women that were sexual partners were the farthest thing from love. Hell, I didn't even like some of them!

I suppose you and I will never understand one another. I am never jealous. I am supremely confident in my role as a husband, father, and lover. If my wife forgets how good I am, she is welcome to try some other loser and she will quickly be reminded why she married me. I expect the courtesy of honesty if that day ever comes, because I would feel hurt if she chose to do it behind my back. I am attracted to a lot of women, I very rarely act on it, but if I were overwhelmed by an attraction, maybe even an emotion for another women, it would not mean that I don't love my wife, it only means that I also have feelings for someone else.

Why is that hard to understand? Don't you love your mother AND your father? Brother AND Sister? Why not wife AND girlfriend!!

reply to post by Americanist


I really wanted to read this as NOT Impossible.

BUT WTF Cleric man?

Join the civilized world where women have feelings.