I Grew up In Dulce, NM

Originally posted by DaddyBare
reply to post by snapmouse

 

Funny thing is growing up there I got tons of ghost stories but no UFO ones...
in Fact I was living in Albuquerque when I first heard the Dulce base story a clam made by some AF officer who also claimed to have filmed UFO's hovering over the Manzano Mountain Bunkers, a real underground base back in the day (1980's)

edit on 18-10-2010 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)

This is too funny.
You wouldn't be talking about a pilot that you met at a Mexican restaurant on Coors Blvd, would you? Drove a black suburban?

reply to post by gariac
This looks a lot like White Sands NM too me, Have done some live fire exercises there and for some reason this looks a bit like it but I can not be sure. Great Post S&F

Originally posted by Violater1
I also find it interesting (even for a gobrmnt subsidized reservation), all of the new buildings and infra-structure in Dulce. The improvements go Way Beyond the financial assistance that most reservations receive.
IMHO.

I hear that a lot. I don't know if I should be offended or not. Because we're indians and gov't subsidized apparently we don't know how to make new buildings? Also, for anyone who thinks I've ever received a dime from the gov't can kiss my brown ass.

First off, a lot of jobs that are gov't subsidized are received from grants and grant writing like any other non-native place.

I do understand WHY people say this, but it's always half cocked.

Remember, we are one of the FEW tribes that have oil on our land. We have our oil drilling company (JAECO) and our land is leased by oil drilling companies so they are allowed to drill on OUR federal land. We also have one of the few water sources running right through our land. We have water deals with surrounding areas as well as MANY more income generating deals. We're not just a bunch of poor old injuns. Having worked as the business manager at the high school I understand how we have money for the school. Allow me to digress a bit.

When a bond issue is passed on the reservation the members of the tribe aren't taxed on the land, the tribe is AND more importantly, the oil companies leasing the land. They pay to small tax which leads to money for capital. There's not a oil company that will walk away from millions of dollars for a %1 tax. Anyone who's worked in school finance knows that capital payments can only be used for permanent fixtures. Meaning we can't pay teachers salaries, buy books, chalk, etc, BUT that money can be used for a new school cafeteria, gym, etc.

If you wonder how they can afford the nice new school buildings? This is it.

If you wonder why there's a new tribal administration building? You've obviously never been to Dulce and saw the OLD administration building that was there for over 25 years.

The government screwed up when they gave us these rocky mountains that aren't fit for farming, with harsh winters and isolateyd environments, the didn't know about the oil. Ask the navajo (sorry) Dine about the awesome eastern, NM land they received and how fertile that is and how long the government expected them to survive. Ask them how that deal with the gov't to provide the basic necessities (like running water) is working out. Ask white needle-man how well the federally funded medical care is working out. I kinda dig that name now that you've told me what it meant.

Again, this is off the point, I just like putting some things to rest.

A little bit history of the Jicarilla Apache,

Truncated from full version because it's long.
Every September on the reservation, we have a footrace. It's called Go-Jii-Ya. Which in Apache only means September.

We basically head out to stone lake and everyone goes camping.

The race is from the old apache story/legend/myth of the Coyote and the Moon.

The moon wanted there to be longer summers and shorter winters, the Coyote wanted the opposite as it's better for hunting. They decided to have the people race. The Red Clan and the White Clan. Ollero's vs. Llaneros.

The race was to be run along the milky way. (as the story goes) so the track is supposed to be aligned with the milky way. Having been out there, it doesn't look like it is, but it was built WAY before I was born so i honestly have no idea how the track was originally aligned with the milky way.

Every september the two clans race each other. It's about 160 yards on a straight track. Dead sprint and run like a relay race.

If the red clan wins, there will be a short summer, long winter, good for hunting.
If the white clan wins, it will be a longer summer for crops, not so well for hunting.

Edited for space and time. This race is over 100 years old. The milky way thing always intrigued me.

reply to post by snapmouse


Thank you!

I don't know how to make the little symbol that looks like hands clapping, but i would if i could.

The alignment of the race course with the Milky Way is very interesting. That it does not appear to align with it now, it makes me wonder if it did at the time that it was made. Do you notice that the seasons correspond with whoever wins the race more often than just coincidence would allow?

Any other stories you would consider sharing? There are few things better than a great story teller.

Originally posted by SeesFar
reply to post by snapmouse

 

Do you notice that the seasons correspond with whoever wins the race more often than just coincidence would allow?

I actually like to believe the winner of the race always seems to coincide with the weather. Though it's not like I've kept detailed records on what constitutes a "long winter". Being Apache I think I've got my bias when it comes to that.

Being, well, human, I always try to find a pattern. Probably when there's not one there. It's a flaw of ours. But I've always wondered why the weather was exactly how I expected it to be BECAUSE of the race. I can check the winner of the race against the weather history and see if there's actually a pattern.

I get the feeling I'll be disappointed, but there's a lot of apache things that I know aren't exactly true, but more based a way of living the good life as a small part of nature. As opposed to dominating it.

There's an old Apache, hmm.. I want to say tradition, but I'll call it, Apache Way of doing certain things. When i was about 8 or 10, I was at a feast eating with one of my older relatives. She told grabbed some food off her plate and dropped it on the ground. She saw my curious look and told me that we have to remember to give back to the earth when she gives us something to eat. It's way of saying "thank you for feeding me and allowing me life, this is a little piece back. I haven't forgotten".

There is great comfort in tradition and knowing what you know, isn't there?

So many of those old ways, such as your relative taught you with returning the sustenance, were good ways and we have wandered too far away from them.

Again, my thanks.

www.marsanomalyresearch.com...


www.marsanomalyresearch.com...

anyone see skiper research on this the guy is a genius awesome. Oh pray for his wife i guess they got a Cancer diagnosis i pray she makes it ok.


Mars anomaly great site what do you guys think since you lived here is it possible the power plant great cover place

Chris

Originally posted by snapmouse

I don't know if I should be offended or not. Because we're indians and gov't subsidized apparently we don't know how to make new buildings? Also, for anyone who thinks I've ever received a dime from the gov't can kiss my brown ass.

I do understand WHY people say this, but it's always half cocked.

Remember, we are one of the FEW tribes that have oil on our land. We have our oil drilling company (JAECO) and our land is leased by oil drilling companies so they are allowed to drill on OUR federal land. We also have one of the few water sources running right through our land. We have water deals with surrounding areas as well as MANY more income generating deals. We're not just a bunch of poor old injuns. Having worked as the business manager at the high school I understand how we have money for the school. Allow me to digress a bit.

If you wonder how they can afford the nice new school buildings? This is it.
If you wonder why there's a new tribal administration building? You've obviously never been to Dulce and saw the OLD administration building that was there for over 25 years.
The government screwed up when they gave us these rocky mountains that aren't fit for farming, with harsh winters and isolateyd environments, the didn't know about the oil. Ask the navajo (sorry) Dine about the awesome eastern, NM land they received and how fertile that is and how long the government expected them to survive. Ask them how that deal with the gov't to provide the basic necessities (like running water) is working out.

Ask white needle-man how well the federally funded medical care is working out. I kinda dig that name now that you've told me what it meant.

Again, this is off the point, I just like putting some things to rest.

I apologize for upsetting you. I did not mean to do that.
In retrospect. I can see my error, however, I didn't know about the oil wells. That's Sweeeeet.
The old masonic gobermnt that chased out the American Indians, and relocated them on rocks or snow fields, could be burning in hell right now and for those who encourage that sick behavior, need to be imprisoned in places just like that.
I did test you on purpose to see if you were really from Dulce, and the truth be now known, I will continue to do so. Not to *snip* you off, nor to call you a lier, but just for conversation sake.
I had read that their is a street that goes from paved to gravel to dirt which dead ends into a very large garage, in Dulce. It is supposed to be guarded. I have also heard that most of the inhabitants of Dulce will report to the "authorities" if they see any "tourists" snooping around. While I was at the gas station, I spoke with some of the LEO's there. They were nice, polite and very informative. Perhaps it had something to do with me being in uniform.
As for the medical care that the American Indians receive on the reservations, It's pathetic. The IHS hospitals are very strictly controlled. They aren't allowed to serve food to the employees. It has something to do with being non-profit. For the people that want gobrmnt run health care, I recommend that anyone that wants gobernmnt health care, visit their local IHS (Indian Health Service) and see what they are going to get for their money. If I were really an AFSOC Flight Surgeon with Flying Staff privileges, I would fly out to Dulce right now and peek around some of those dirt streets. But I'm not. so I'll settle for dialogue here on this board.

...hey, snapmouse... thx for the beautiful pics... i've got attachments to the other side of nm (harding county) and family down in jal but i like your side too...

...i've never believed the dulce stories but i grew up hearing humdingers (like, my pappaw said he bought the 13th peterbilt that came off the line, lol) - so maybe i'm a little jaded...

...speaking of humdingers, surely you remember old 666, huh?... i think its a shame they changed the number but i dont live out there, so, really, its none of my biz...

...i ran from cortez to gallup late one night on 666... nothing creepy happened but i did fall into a crater that nearly bounced the contents of the trailer to the moon, lol...

...have you ever heard the old saying "the land remembers"?... i think that could have something to do with people getting legitimately creeped out and creating explanations for things they dont understand...

Originally posted by Violater1

I apologize for upsetting you. I did not mean to do that.
In retrospect. I can see my error, however, I didn't know about the oil wells. That's Sweeeeet.

I'm not offended at all. I do think that people should be tested to verify the crap they say is true.. or at least, true to them. The tribe only has a little over 3000 members (and falling). So we're a rare group amongst an already rare group.

Originally posted by Violater1

I had read that their is a street that goes from paved to gravel to dirt which dead ends into a very large garage, in Dulce. It is supposed to be guarded. I have also heard that most of the inhabitants of Dulce will report to the "authorities" if they see any "tourists" snooping around.

Yay! some ground level reporting. There is a LOT of paved to gravel roads. Hell, just driving from Dulce to River you'll see about 5 of them. I can tell you that any large garage isn't randomly guarded. When I was a kid I had a dirtbike. I can't think of any inches that we didn't tear up and down through. We would've noticed something like this. Now, I will say there are some buildings that look like they're abandoned that nobody bothers with. But that's speculation. If someone knows WHERE the garage is, I can have someone down there taking pictures within a week.

The reporting tourists to authorities is partly true. Not for the nefarious reasons most people think. It's because of the amount of poaching that happens. Dulce has an EXCELLENT hunting area. We charge non-indians a LOT of money to hunt there. (I've personally met Bo Jackson and missed meeting curt Schilling) because they love to hunt down there. Even being a member I have to put my name in an hope it gets pulled lottery style for a bull elk permit. Here's the website, with pictures even. www.jicarillahunt.com...
I can't find the story but a few poachers were recently fined 10k for each elk the got caught poaching. It's big business out there. (www.fieldandstream.com...)

I know some people are interested in the origin stories of the apaches. Yes it involved underground and coming out to the find the sun. It's not much different from other tribes that aren't from Dulce. So take it with a grain of salt. I remember this book. The problem is that it's translated from Apache to English from long ago and as everyone knows, there are some things that just don't translate correctly. This isn't really TAUGHT to us as a religion. We don't have a book or a bible. It's all spread by stories and it evolves as time does. We learn lessons as they arrive as we grow up.

how the moon keeps us warm, how the animals are related to us and all manner of things like that. Being a Network admin I've been far removed from understanding there is no science base to this, but some of the things we did back then, make MUCH more or WAY less sense to me then it does now. Things like staying still in heat, keeping warm on cold days, walking quietly and staying downwind of animals.

My sister reminded me of a ufo story the other day when I brought up this topic. My friends dad told me an unbelievable story that I don't like to share because it seems WAY out there. Even for Dulce. I'll share it in another post.

Originally posted by Violater1
This is too funny.
You wouldn't be talking about a pilot that you met at a Mexican restaurant on Coors Blvd, would you? Drove a black suburban?

Hahaha... NO... but I may know the Pilot your talking about...

Naw I first read this story in the Sunday edition of the Albuquerque Journal...1980's ish
in this multi page story this...I want to say Colonel...???... claimed to have had video of UFO flying over the weapons lap and bunkers out there at Sandia... in this story he talks about how some black ops broke into his place and took that footage... He went on to talk about this "Base at Dulce" but not in great detail...

anyway there must have been some merit to his tale as even without proof he was allotted a rather large section of the newspaper... in fact if someone who still lives there in Albuquerque were to go to the Journal center I bet you could find that old story on Microfiche

THIS is the kind of stuff that gives Dulce credence. There's always going to be shouting about evidence, which is fair.

Now as I was growing up people would tell each other these sighting stories. All fun and what not, but THEN you see a story in the abq journal. THEN you hear of someone else who doesn't live there, army guy or something (we would know remember?) talking about it, and big HMMMM.. comes up. I thought it was just some stories we laughed about.

I distinctly remember a story in the santa fe newspaper about Gabe Valdez in the late 80's. There was a HUGE picture of him on the front with his arms crossed. I remember my mom telling me "hey check it out, Gabe is in the paper!". I believe that paper is called The New Mexican. wait.. google.. yup. That's it.

Does this mean there's evidence? Not even close. Just stories, hearsay and coincidence.

Ah, here's someone on this board has already mentioned Gabe Valdez.

ATS Ufo& Aliens Board

Another online story from Gallup NM about sightings and Gabe and cattle.
Gallup Newspaper Story

Once I was hanging outside my house at night. We had a trampoline on the southwest side of my house, so I was lying down watching the stars. I'd say I was looking west. I saw an airplane flying overhead. Pretty small light, looked like a regular airplane light that's 30k feet in the sky. It was about to go behind Dulce rock as it was traveling east to, well, northwest.

But this I'll never forget.
When it got closer to the rock face mountain, the entire side of it lit up. Like someone put a huge flashlight on Dulce rock and then it slowly cruised behind it. It took few seconds for me to say "that light was RIGHT THERE! It wasn't up on the sky! It was right THERE". I'm sure more swear words were involved. I say this because there was nothing between me and Dulce rock. (see image in first post) and I could walk to the TOP of Dulce rock in under an hour. It was behind the mountain now and it was too late for me to do anything about it.

Needless to say, I went inside and told my whole family that some...thing just cruised behind Dulce Rock.

reply to post by DaddyBare




If it was Taco Cabana on Coors, it was me (Lt. Col.) Black Suburban and all.
It was my crews quick Margarita and Taco stop.
I don't know anything about Dulce because everything in the gobermt is compartmentalized.

Originally posted by gariac

If anyone want to discuss that base, please start another thread. My point is there is real stuff to discover out there, so why waste your time on this Dulce nonsense. I haven't seen anyone write up their local "continuity of government" base. [I tried to photograph one in Napa Ca, but it is hard to see due to trees.] But all you hear about is Dulce this, Dulce that, without ever one shred of proof supplied.

I am surprised that you seek "proof" of Dulce's underground base with all the evidence on the internet. So, I'll help you out.

Check out what Phil Schneider, a former officer at Dulce, has to say, and know he was then murdered in 1996


Then check out what another former officer at Dulce, Thomas Edwin Costello had to say. Costello disappeared because they wanted to kill him for speaking out.

Finally. check out this page by "Branton" who writes about several whistleblowers of underground basis and who were murdered for spilling the beans.

Maybe you will find some "proof" in these pages and not dismiss Dulce so readily.

Tanjo Snapmouse...

funny you used the name Mouse in your title. I know a few out there that used that name like Redmouse and a great little kid I gave the Name Warrior Mouse to.

I wonder if that might be you...

I have only posted on here a few times in the past and was just re visiting it.

Were you ever a Gaan Dancer?

you can send me a private Message on here as well.

Apache Kid Tse Cleetso

Originally posted by snapmouse
Once I was hanging outside my house at night. We had a trampoline on the southwest side of my house, so I was lying down watching the stars. I'd say I was looking west. I saw an airplane flying overhead. Pretty small light, looked like a regular airplane light that's 30k feet in the sky. It was about to go behind Dulce rock as it was traveling east to, well, northwest.

But this I'll never forget.
When it got closer to the rock face mountain, the entire side of it lit up. Like someone put a huge flashlight on Dulce rock and then it slowly cruised behind it. It took few seconds for me to say "that light was RIGHT THERE! It wasn't up on the sky! It was right THERE". I'm sure more swear words were involved. I say this because there was nothing between me and Dulce rock. (see image in first post) and I could walk to the TOP of Dulce rock in under an hour. It was behind the mountain now and it was too late for me to do anything about it.

Needless to say, I went inside and told my whole family that some...thing just cruised behind Dulce Rock.

I cannot begin to express how utterly bizarre that sounds. Are you so sure there's nothing there?

Originally posted by Vandalour
reply to post by GBP/JPY

 

I been wondering about that to...
Somebody should place cameras all over that place for a couple of years..

Did any natives ever get any clear photos of this area?

reply to post by Kojiro


Lots of explanations for flashes of light. Flares and night time aero photography for example. I've seen the night time flash for photography myself and it's quite amazing. I could see my own shadow. You would think a nuke went off.

Night time strobe photography dates back to WWII and none other than Mr. E of EG&G.
night time strobe photography