Oregon county decriminalizes heroin, meth, cocaine and shoplifting, among others

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Why do people accept the Governments authority for alcohol regulation, but not drug regulation?

Because alcohol regulation doesn't land you in jail and in front of a judge unless you do something completely stupid like drive.

It isn't so much about government authority - it's what they are doing with it that is the issue.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Kryties

 

What I am saying, is that if a person has taken a drug which is known to make large percentages of the takers flip out,and or behave in a way that is detrimental to their health and the saftey of others , then they should be locked up , and thats all I am saying.

But that's the thing, you are basing your argument off an assumption - being the "drug which is known to make large percentages of the takers flip out". Large percentages? Yes, some people flip out but if it were large percentages of takers then we would see a lot more 'flipping out' going on than we do. The only reason you think it's 'large percentages' is because the only ones you hear about are the ones that HAVE flipped out. You don't see the news reporting "Meth user sits in lounge room and builds giant playing-card pyramid" simply because its not exciting enough.

Correct me if I am wrong though, perhaps you have a link to where a study has been done and the result is that large percentages of users of a certain drug flip out?

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Why do people accept the Governments authority for alcohol regulation, but not drug regulation?

Because alcohol regulation doesn't land you in jail and in front of a judge unless you do something completely stupid like drive.

It isn't so much about government authority - it's what they are doing with it that is the issue.

I don't really buy that argument and here is why.

It is not against the Law to have illegal drugs in your system unless you are driving a car. There are absolutely no statutes that allow me to charge someone for possession of an illegal drug by consumption. If I were to answer a call at your house, and you tell me your on coc aine, but nothing is in plain sight, and there are no other offenses present, I cant do anything to you.

Alcohol on the other hand is the opposite. If you are under 21 in my state, I can charge an individual with minor in possession of alcohol by consumption.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by spikey
[more

Why would we then legalize the drugs if we are going to spend time and money in trying to help people get off these drugs? To me it sounds counter productive. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trying to help through treatment.

Why Not spend the money wasted on The WOD on funding for, rehabilitation, education , and the real facts of Drugs. Rather than the current false scare tactic propaganda that is blasted across our schools

reply to post by Xcathdra


OK, so the law must be changed to reflect thus. I have no problem with a law for all drugs that operates much like alcohol regulation. I am not silly enough to believe that simple legalisation with no regulation will work.

I do, however, have a problem with a law that makes criminals out of people who need help.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by spikey

 

Canada has a THC derivative pill that works just the same.

No it doesn't. THC is only one part of the whole effect. Cannabis actually has over 60 different chemicals in it that all combine together - CBC, CBD to name a couple.

Tetrahydrocannabinol

Dronabinol

Nabilone

Sativex

These are just a few that address the compounds for medical use. On this note, im heading to bed.. Good debate.. I got to learn some stuff I did not know, which makes it a good day.

Thanks.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Same here mate, nice talking to you. Bed awaits me though....

Originally posted by Sacri

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by spikey
[more

Why would we then legalize the drugs if we are going to spend time and money in trying to help people get off these drugs? To me it sounds counter productive. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trying to help through treatment.

Why Not spend the money wasted on The WOD on funding for, rehabilitation, education , and the real facts of Drugs. Rather than the current false scare tactic propaganda that is blasted across our schools

Lol check some of my earlier posts.. The War on drugs does not work, and I stated we need to move towards treatment instead of incarceration. We are on the same page.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Out of curiosity, and I might be misreading the argument, but why is it ok for people to accept the Governments decision legalizing alcohol, and the laws in place for the consumption of it, but be upset because they wont legalize drugs?

It seems to be a cherry pick style argument. Using the argument the government interferes to much in a person private life by outlawing drugs, while at the same time accepting and arguing the government legalized alcohol.

Why do people accept the Governments authority for alcohol regulation, but not drug regulation?

I am only going by my country here , but I put it down to knowledge in Australia there is a big gap between the over 30s and the under the 30s The over 30s knowledge on drugs in limited to their pot smoking and lsd days. They went to concerts, parties Festivals, with alcohol and a little Pot. That was their times. They grew up with their parents drinking Alcohol, and their grandparents drinking alcohol. Their knowledge on drugs such as Cocaine, Ecstasy, Meth, are limited to what they see on the news .. Horror Stories as the poster above me said how many stories do you see on a user who has had a good trip, or a bunch of party goers who had a safe fun night on drugs. None Zero Zilch, Insted we are blasted with stories of the meth addict who robbed the old lady or Heroin junkie who Killed someone else, and the Drugs are the ones being demonized. Not the individual for their actions.

You then have the under 30's which in Australia drug use is very very common, these days they go to their parties with a bag of pills insted of a a bottle of alcohol. They are more up to date with the knowledge of drugs their effects, and what not.

It's so Infuriating that the government can sit back and claim taxes (we have a tax on both alcohol and cigarettes here) Raking in millions and Millions of $$ a year telling me its ok to poison my body with nicotine, and alcohol, but heaven forbid if I rack a line of coke or decide to take ecstasy at a party.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I agree with a large portion of your attitude and opinion on dealing with drug users. I think though that it has to be said, that theres a big difference between meth and pot. Sure , you can get so stoned on pot that you think your body is inside out, but most of the stoners I have ever met, are just really chilled out and couldnt get the effort together to commit a crime, drive a car under the influence, or anything the hell else. They just sit eating pizza and playing PS3 largely speaking. Meth heads are a totaly different game though... theres a few around my local town centre, my backyard so to speak... They are crazy when they are high. They pose a genuine risk to public health, they dont know to stay indoors while under the influence, they dont know what they are doing, why they are doing it, they can be angry happy sad all at once , and get violent for no apparant reason. Its just dangerous for them to be out and about .
Surely some drug specific coping strategies ought to be concocted by the lawmakers, rather than blanket and arbitrary scentences which do not reflect the harm done to people by the drugs being taken, possesed or sold?

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Sacri

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by spikey
[more

Why would we then legalize the drugs if we are going to spend time and money in trying to help people get off these drugs? To me it sounds counter productive. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trying to help through treatment.

Why Not spend the money wasted on The WOD on funding for, rehabilitation, education , and the real facts of Drugs. Rather than the current false scare tactic propaganda that is blasted across our schools

Lol check some of my earlier posts.. The War on drugs does not work, and I stated we need to move towards treatment instead of incarceration. We are on the same page.

I know we are I was just offering an idea of where we could get some of the money from

Originally posted by Sacri

I am only going by my country here , but I put it down to knowledge in Australia there is a big gap between the over 30s and the under the 30s The over 30s knowledge on drugs in limited to their pot smoking and lsd days. They went to concerts, parties Festivals, with alcohol and a little Pot. That was their times. Their knowledge on drugs such as Cocaine, Ecstasy, Meth, are limited to what they see on the news ..

You might want to revise your upper age limit there mate - I'm 31 (and Aussie ) and I had an amphetamine addiction about a decade ago. Coke, Pills, harry etc were all available and in quite prolific use even in my day.

Now I just feel old.........

reply to post by Kryties





Haha Sorry mate


My statement was more of a broad reference than anything, I do realize they where around and used in your day, but no where to the extent of today. Even in the last 5 years I have noticed a massive shift from people drinking to people consuming. Maybe it's my age group, maybe it's my group in general. I don't know but I can honestly say its harder to find a drinker these days then it is a consumer.

reply to post by Kryties


That's absolutely correct.

It's clear Cannabis prohibition is a 'marketing' issue rather than a social one.

It's a natural plant that has obviously recognized health benefits, as why else would several Pharmaceutical companies market a 'proprietary' and 'patentable' Cannabis based drug if this was not so?

You're right though, isolating specific parts of the plant in order to create a patentable drug is not going to work.

The 60 odd (so far identified) other components of the Cannabis plant seem to create a synergistic effect which does not occur when individual components are isolated and used alone.

A little known fact is that human beings are born into this world, with Cannabinoid receptors fully formed in the brain, specifically tailored to the human body being able to utilize the components of this plant.

These receptor sites, are there as inherent human genetic traits, and are not present due to parental usage of Cannabis or not.

That implies a very long and mutually beneficial relationship between humanity and this simple plant. In short, humanity have evolved to enable us to make use of Cannabis and it's Cannabinoids contained within.

Selectively taking and marketing a single component of Cannabis, is like ordering a beef steak in a restaurant and being served a bowl of milk...it's from the cow, but it's not a steak.

reply to post by TrueBrit


I agree and have no issues with a different standard for legalizing pot and not other drugs. They have different effects, and I can say most of the people I have fought with were under the influence of "hard" drugs or alcohol, or a mix.

The only issues I ever had with people and pot is when I pull a 1/2 pound from under the seat, only to be told is for personal use.. Riiight...

reply to post by Kryties


Your Aussie? When I was asking questions about your incident, asking if you talked to the PA and judge, did that occur in the states, or in Australia?



and we all know why Marijuana is illegal - To protect the textile industry from hemp ropes, clothing etc. j/k

Originally posted by Raelsatu

They're not "encouraging" people to be crackheads man. People become hard drug abusers because they were irresponsible and didn't think before they took that first line of ____. I've done nearly every drug (at least once), and I know the repercussions each hold. And tbh, 2 of the worst drugs are cigarettes and alcohol, but they're sanctioned; so people look the other way. As an individual, you need to have to be responsible for what you know, what you put into your body, and have the self-control to not fall into a trap. The war on drugs was a complete and utter failure.

You've done every drug, and cigarettes and alcohol are the worst? You haven't done jack. Heroin, amphetamines and crack are way worse than cigarettes or alcohol could ever dream of being. Sure cigarettes are really addictive to put it lightly, but Heroin and meth are much worse in that category. Plus, you aren't vomitting your intestines out, fever, chills, sweats, bowels going insane, hallucinating, or planning suicide when you withdrawal from cigarettes, like you are from Heroin. Meth can be equally as bad during withdrawal.

reply to post by Xcathdra

The only issues I ever had with people and pot is when I pull a 1/2 pound from under the seat, only to be told is for personal use.. Riiight...

I can see how you as a police officer would be cynical in those circumstances, but there are many scenarios where the person with a half pound of pot stuffed under his or her seat would be telling the truth when they say it's for personal use.

As we know, it's illegal to grow or possess pot.

Growing pot can be a risky business, especially at home for personal use, and the ideal situation would be one where a grower/consumers would grow enough pot to last him or her the longest period of time until they once again, have to risk detection by growing again.

It's safer to grow or buy a larger amount of pot, that will last perhaps 6 months to a year, than it is to be continually growing small amounts 365 days a year or making repeated trips to dodgy areas, filled with dodgy people to buy small amounts.

Of course, they may be dealers, but i'm just pointing out, there are other genuine reasons for having a larger amount of pot in their possession.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Sorry mate, I probably should have made that clear. I was translating what u were saying about PA's and judges into the Aussie system. Btw I'm posting from my phone in bed now please forgive any spelling or grammatical errors

Originally posted by sliceNodice

You've done every drug, and cigarettes and alcohol are the worst? You haven't done jack. Heroin, amphetamines and crack are way worse than cigarettes or alcohol could ever dream of being. Sure cigarettes are really addictive to put it lightly, but Heroin and meth are much worse in that category. Plus, you aren't vomitting your intestines out, fever, chills, sweats, bowels going insane, hallucinating, or planning suicide when you withdrawal from cigarettes, like you are from Heroin. Meth can be equally as bad during withdrawal.

edit on 12-10-2010 by sliceNodice because: (no reason given)

Have YOU ever done or seen any of these things? Cigarettes are the leading cause of death in America, and alcohol (along with benzos) is one of the only withdrawals you can die from. With heroin, it only feels like you're dying. I was taking opiates/opioids, stimulants, and hallucinogens for 2 semesters, and quitting was no problem. I may have had a day or 2 of feeling tired/depressed. I've seen people go to detox and rehab that quit everything but still smoke. The stigma associated with heroin is prevalent. People instantly think of chronic users curled up in some alleyway, shooting up, and doing anything to get their fix. I've seen firsthand what the addiction can do to people, and I agree it can be a terrible thing. Once again, the worse of symptoms occur with long-time chronic users. I had no such withdrawals, nor did I have an excessively difficult time quitting. Now on that note, I experimented alot but I don't intend on returning to most of what I did, nor do I encourage anybody to take drugs for that matter. I still haven't done meth, and don't ever want to. I still consider marijuana and shrooms to be the most rewarding (and physiologically safe) to date for me, and I don't consider them "bad". I plan on smoking '___' soon in the future.

Do you know of the entheogen (psychoactive) Ibogaine? It's a naturally occurring alkaloid that's proven to relieve chronic drug users of all addiction and withdrawals with 1 dose. The US classified it Schedule I, along with the other psychedelics.

Newsflash: It's all about money and control.