F117 post retirement

reply to post by Astr0

The purpose of these gratings is to prevent radar waves from traveling down the intake ducts and reaching the whirling blades of the turbofans, which would tend to produce large echoes. This works because the spacings between the grids on the grating are smaller than the wavelengths of most radars. The grating is covered with RAM, which helps reduce the reflections even further.

F-117A

The F-117A was flying around the range in May. I have a photo but it is not mine to post. I'm sure it will be on the internet eventually.

The Sea Shadow was sold for scrap last year.

reply to post by gariac


He was talking about the Sea Ghost UCLASS vehicle, not the Sea Shadow. The inlet grids are irrelevant to the discussion, but the idea of using the F-117A as a surrogate for the UCLASS is highly credible. Manned airplanes have been used as surrogates for UAVs in other development programs. For example, they might wish to test unmanned vehicle's aerial refueling rendezvous software, using the F-117A as the testbed with a safety pilot onboard.

He was talking about the Sea Ghost UCLASS vehicle, not the Sea Shadow. The inlet grids are irrelevant to the discussion, but the idea of using the F-117A as a surrogate for the UCLASS is highly credible. Manned airplanes have been used as surrogates for UAVs in other development programs. For example, they might wish to test unmanned vehicle's aerial refueling rendezvous software, using the F-117A as the testbed with a safety pilot onboard.

IIRC, Boeing did this with a pair of F-18s, the manned Proteus engaged with a Global Hawk, and who can forget Calspan and the 'Sense and Avoid' Learjet. This got me thinking: What if the F-117 Pilot is cleared to work out of Groom lake on Lockheed projects, and the company needed an airframe with both the internal space for the UAV systems as well as a LO signature?

My own ponderings are still about the skins on the F-117 being replaced and the grills being replaced with a new inlet type. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

Originally posted by Astr0
My own ponderings are still about the skins on the F-117 being replaced and the grills being replaced with a new inlet type. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

edit on 19-5-2013 by Astr0 because: To clarify my point.

I've always wondered if they would be sold to the Israelis who have an obvious use for its mission. An external upgrade and tanking practice would be compatible with this scenario.

reply to post by mbkennel


None of the photos thus far have been of sufficient resolution to indicate the F-117a has been modified.

Israel can't really launch aircraft in secret. The place is so small the enemy's early warning system could be guys in lawn chairs using twitter.

Israel can probably jam radar as good as we can. That is easier technology than stealth. Note the Navy never bothered with stealth until the F-35. They jam with EA-6B and EF-18.

Here's a recent article that reinforces the OP:

WHY IS THE STEALTHY F-117 NIGHTHAWK STILL FLYING?

I am trying to catch up with reader requests and one common strain of emails pertains to questions surrounding why the F-117 Nighthawk, America’s first stealth attack aircraft, is still flying around the Nellis Range Complex years after it’s official retirement back in 2008.

Another interesting use for the officially retired F-117s would be in the realm of “optionally manned” aircraft. Many wondered why the F-117 was retired instead of being turned into an unmanned combat aircraft of some sort. Would having a proven stealth attack platform that could help bridge the gap between manned deep strike platforms of the past and unmanned deep strike platforms of the future be beneficial? I think so. In fact the F-117 fleet could have even been turned into an even more potent and employable “silver-bullet” attack force by removing the pilot from the equation.

aviationintel.com...

There's a couple of boomers I know from Nellis who have said they occasionally find themselves refueling a wandering F-117 or two over the range both during and not during Red Flag , last I heard was the middle of last year.

reply to post by DesertWatchdog


There are many tracks over the restricted airspace. I think the F117a has been using the track they call "Monitor Valley." It is at the north side of the NTTR.

Regarding the manned and unmanned theory, I doubt it. If I had to venture a guess why they are flying F117as around the range, I would say they are testing new RAM coatings. They have Site-4 nearby to see how the coatings work on various foreign radar.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by mbkennel

 

None of the photos thus far have been of sufficient resolution to indicate the F-117a has been modified.

Israel can't really launch aircraft in secret. The place is so small the enemy's early warning system could be guys in lawn chairs using twitter.

At night? Sure, aircraft are launching, but what are they and where are they going? There could be areas in the Negev hard to get to. I wondered if they considered launching F15/16's from Israel, and then, for the real attack, F117's from an undisclosed location in North Afghanistan or something.

Israel can probably jam radar as good as we can. That is easier technology than stealth. Note the Navy never bothered with stealth until the F-35. They jam with EA-6B and EF-18.

True, but the Navy's first job isn't to do precision bombing on hard targets with modern integrated air defenses.

reply to post by mbkennel


Israel has a base in another country that is close enough to bomb Iran. The location escapes me, but it has been mentioned on the "Dark Secret Place" radio show / podcast.

The photos of the recent sighting of the F117a around the range are er on the "around the range" blogspot.
f117a flies again

Dark Secret Place (warning: occasional right wing rants)

F117 isn't much of a bomber if it has to use conventional warheads. (Nukes on the other hand...) I don't see it being very useful to bomb the Iranian nuclear fuel site. Besides, the facility needs to be exploited for intel, plus you don't want to spread nuclear material. I think a raid by land forces would be required. That is why nobody is doing anything about the facility with military force. The chances of success are low and the cost in blood will be high.

reply to post by Shrewd22


Correct. The RAM is classified and the avionics/ECM/radar/etc (just like with all our other airframes) is classified. This is why we sell F-16s to foreign nations. They get the airframe but it lacks the meat that makes it remarkable.

Plus, without advance avionics, that plane isn't that great of an aerodynamic achievement. Radar deflection yes, but it is a brick without advanced avionics.

reply to post by Shadowhawk


I don't think the F-117 has the legs the Navy wants in a UCLASS.

What a cool thread. I had no idea this bird was still flying!

You guys are missing Gariacs point. Yes the 117 is still flying in limited numbers around groom and tonapah. But its probably only two to four total out there flying and like he said they are probably just testing out the new RAM coatings or something like that. Also, when I refueled the silver one, the pilot said he was a civilian that worked for skunkworks and that they take that plane out for fun sometimes. So who knows what they are actually doing.

F117a paper

This paper cover the secrecy around the F117, though the web of government lies could apply to any secret project.