Police threaten to KILL Pastor over License Plate Light being Burned Out

First of all..the 'Probable Cause' used here..the license plate light law (regulation) is bogus to begin with. All of us who have been pulled over know or should know that any cop that can't read a license plate with the high intensity head lights of modern cruisers should not be allowed to possess a badge in the first place. He's freeking blind and should also be precluded from possessing a firearm. This use of the law is consistent with other bogus and invalid regulations being used to jack up the citizenry for no other reason than the police proceed to stop your vehicle and to actually cause people to be arrested because of the coercive use of police power. It is manufacturing a situation to institute fear and control over the citizenry who should be viewed as their employers, NOT as slaves to the masters!

reply to post by mnemeth1


Ah yes, and so the re education of the populace begins.

Burnt out license plate light....Bring out the dogs!

Showing ID's is getting pretty standard in every wake of the police's reach.

What can we do against it?

Put up with abuse I guess...educate ourselves so we can stand our ground within the law.

Beat them at their own game.

Oh great this asshat again.

What people don't understand is, this guy purposely does this in order to get the reaction you are giving him. He goes out and films cops busting him and just uses the best clips to upload on the net to get this knee jerk reaction.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that this pastor set the whole thing up to start with.

reply to post by Use your brain

I would rather not comment on the pastor's actions and motive, however his freaking out over a drawn sidearm is unwarranted. If a stopped vehicles has multiple occupants and the driver is acting as the preacher did, there is an automatic perceived threat.

Automatic perceived threat? Sure, if you're scared and view the people you are supposedly sworn to protect and serve as the enemy, then a perceived threat would be normal.

The officer's comment "it's going to get a lot deadlier" may not have been the wisest choice of words, but leo's are far from politicians. His statements were accurate to an extent, only if to imply that if the good pastor became aggressive that the situation would indeed become life threatening.

The police officers were the aggressors in this instance, and any person agitated by such aggression is normal.

I remember a policing class I took as an elective when earning my BA. The professor was also a captain of a sheriff's department, and a good man. He showed us police training videos, where troopers, officers and deputies were popped out of a driver or passenger window while just approaching the driver's side during a routine traffic stop. There is good reason officers may seem overly defensive or aggressive.

You bet there is a good reason, and you just, in part, explained that reason. Police officers are trained to be frightened of the public they swore to protect and serve. They are showed propaganda films that escalate that fear. The fact of the matter is that being a police officer is not nearly as deadly as being a fisherman, a logger, a rancher, a structural construction worker, or even a sanitation worker!

Of the deadliest jobs in the United States, being a police officer ranks number #12 behind:

1.) Fisherman with a fatality rate of 61 per 100,000 workers
2,) Logger; Fatalities: 116 per 100,000 workers
3.) Farmer/Rancher: Fatalities: 40 per 100,000 workers
4.) Structural Construction Worker: Fatalities: 46 per 100,000 workers
5.) Sanitation Worker: Fatalities: 37 per 100,000 workers
6.) Airplane Pilot: Fatalities: 72 per 100,000 workers
7.) Roofer: Fatalities: 34 per 100,000 workers
8.) Coal Miner: Fatalities: 22 per 100,000 workers
9.) Merchant mariner: Fatalities: 23 per 100,000 workers
10.) Miller: Fatalities: 12 per 100,000 workers
11.) Power line installer: Fatalities: 30 per 100,000 workers
12,) Police Officer: Fatalities: 16 per 100,000 workers

Note: The order was derived by combining over all fatalities and injuries per 100,000 of each profession.

www.thedailybeast.com...://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-04-08/the-20-most-dangerous-jobs/

As to your assertion that police officers are not politicians, they certainly have no qualms about forming Political Action Committees to lobby for harsher sentencing laws, and to further this imprudent so called "war on drugs". The war on drugs has demonstrably made their lives more dangerous, and yet, politically speaking police officers favor it.

In California, the California Narcotics Officers Association schools police officers to believe the public "have been misled... into believing there is merit to their argument that smoking marijuana is a safe and effective medicine." This is in direct contradiction of the stated position of the American Medical Association otherwise that "short term controlled trials indicate that smoked cannabis reduces neuropathic pain, improves appetite and caloric intake especially in patients with reduced muscle mass, and may relieve spasticity and pain in patients with multiple sclerosis."

In New Jersey, the medical marijuana law was severely curtailed when the Assembly heard the unfounded assertion by a representative of New Jersey's Fraternal Order of Police that "I've heard in California there's a lot peripheral crime around these centers [medical marijuana dispensaries], I get that from the different law enforcement agencies around the country who I have regular contact with." This is in direct contradiction of the findings of the Chief of the LAPD who stated: "Banks are more likely to get robbed than medical marijuana dispensaries." The Chief was responding to the notion that there is greater crime around dispensaries and said "I have tried to verify that because that, of course, is the mantra. It doesn't really bear out."

And in Oklahoma, the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics & Dangerous Drugs Control publishes a "fact sheet" on marijuana that states: "Today's new cultivation methods are producing a drug with up to 30 percent THC, or 3,000 percent higher than the old 1960's-1980's available marijuana." This is in direct contradiction to the DEA's own figures on marijuana potency which find that today's average cannabis seizure may have doubled in THC potency (a 100% increase, not a 3,000% increase.) Oklahoma's bureau doesn't address why 30% THC marijuana is to be feared, but 100% THC Marinol pills are FDA-approved.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Lobbying efforts and campaign contributions by the CCPOA have helped secure passage of numerous legislative bills favorable to union members, including bills that increase prison terms, member pay, and enforce current drug laws. The CCPOA takes the position that correctional officers perform an essential public service that puts in great danger, and strives for a safer California

en.wikipedia.org...

Even further, is the very disturbing reality that police officers are increasingly shooting unarmed people. In 2004, The Huston Chronicle reported:

1 in 3 Police Shootings Involve Unarmed People

Law enforcement officers in Harris County have shot 65 unarmed people since 1999, killing 17. These incidents represent more than a third of all local police shootings, but experts call them the most preventable.

NEW ORLEANS -- A magistrate has rejected another bid to set bond for four current or former New Orleans police officers charged in deadly shootings of unarmed residents on a bridge in Hurricane Katrina's aftermath.

www.wdsu.com...

The ACLU offers a particular disturbing statistic:

Considerable progress has been made in the area of police misconduct in the use of deadly force. Although the rate of deadly force abuse is still intolerably high, national data reveal reductions in the number of persons shot and killed by the police since the mid-1970s — as much as 35-to 40 percent in our 50 largest cities. This has been accompanied by a significant reduction in the racial disparities among persons shot and killed: since the 1970s, from about six people of color to one white person, down to three people of color to one white.

www.aclu.org...

Suggesting that misconduct of deadly force has dropped since the mid '70's only because police officers have stopped killing so many Blacks and Hispanic's as they once did.

Amnesty International reports:

Disturbingly, many of the police shootings did not appear to justify firing guns and many of the people allegedly kicked or beaten by police were not criminal suspects but people who had simply questioned police authority or had minor disagreements with officers. Nearly all the victims in the cases of deaths in custody and police shootings reviewed by Amnesty International were from racial minorities -- particularly African-Americans, Latinos and Asians.

And...

In more than 30 cases suspects have been shot, killed or injured by NYC police officers in questionable circumstances in recent years. There are serious doubts about whether the suspects had posed an immediate threat to life when they were shot, even though NYPD officers may fire their guns only as a last resort to protect life. Most of the victims --including several teenagers -- were unarmed at the time they were shot.

Having a badge and a gun is not a license to kill...Not in the United States of America, but good luck in convincing, at the very least, some of the LEO's across the country.

Not all police officers are bad, per se, but when one considers the dubious code of silence employed by too many police officers regarding police brutality, the adage; "one bad apple spoils the bunch" takes on profound meaning.

When people jump to the police's defense and justify the threat of deadly force over a simple burnt out license plate light, it should be understandable why so many unarmed victims are being shot, and/or beaten severely by police officers. To the credit of the police officers in the video featured by the O.P., brutality was kept at a minimum, and ultimately the pastor was released without any serious incident. Of course, perhaps it is arguable that they were lucky to have been confronted by the police officers they were confronted and not you. I would argue that they would have been luckier still if they were confronted by a police officer who simply wanted to inform the driver his license plate light was burnt out, and leave it at that.

reply to post by whatukno


so what if he does cruise around looking for this reaction? the tape should speak for itself as a single incident in time. if we look at his words and actions and the state's words and actions and decide the police were in the wrong then they are in the wrong. the fact that this pastor might be able to recreate this scenario over and over speaks more to the incompetance of the police and the common-place status of violation of rights then it does to the pastor's character.

reply to post by mnemeth1


The guy is a jackass to the cop when the cop has done nothing to provoke it. And not surprisingly, he gets the same response. If he had been courteous he would have just got a fix it ticket or a warning. And he would have been on his way.

reply to post by Miraj


Asking the passengers of the vehicle for identification is a provocation. What possible reason could the police officer have for asking the passengers for identification based upon a burnt out light for a license plate?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Ive been told by police officers that they like to know who they encounter on stops. So that they have a record of it, and they probably check for warrants on them.

It's not a provocation though.

"Gimme your f---ing ID" is a provocation. "Do you guys have ID?" is not.

Cops are people too. If I was talking to a stranger and they carried that tone of voice. Which I have dealt with, I would be extremely wary of them.

I don't blame the cop for getting defensive. They are one draw of a gun from getting shot, and it's natural to assume that is someone is angry and bellegerent then they want to fight. I can't say I am with the cop on detaining and searching the car. That was clearly wrong.

But the situation would have never gone there if the driver would have just been calm. His answers were not even wrong. They were right, but the way he answered was 100% wrong.

reply to post by Miraj


They passengers were not "stopped" as part of the legal stop that took place.

For the officers safety he should have just written the ticket as soon as the man became irritated to just get the stop over with and get on with the night.

reply to post by snusfanatic


Cops are human beings, and you can only push anyone so far before they start to push back, and l can imagine that a cop might just get tired of someone trying to push his buttons.

Cops are humans, and as humans they have a right to defend themselves against being harassed. They don't just have to take being abused. I don't know how you grew up, but I was always taught to treat others as you would have them treat you. Well this guy got treated as he treated others. I don't see the problem.

reply to post by Miraj

Ive been told by police officers that they like to know who they encounter on stops. So that they have a record of it, and they probably check for warrants on them.

It's not a provocation though.

I am sure that police officers would like many things, and possibly even like unicorns and fairy dust, but they are officers of the law, and sworn to uphold the law. Of course, they are free to ask for identification, but the pastor was free to speak against the request, and the police officer ordering him to shut up was out of line, and a provocation. While police officers are free to ask for identification, a little discretion in such matters is prudent. Knowing who the passengers were in a vehicle that was pulled over for a burnt out light on a license plate hardly constitutes prudent police work.

Cops are people too. If I was talking to a stranger and they carried that tone of voice. Which I have dealt with, I would be extremely wary of them.

The cop was armed and dangerous, later confirming how dangerous he was by the very real threat he made, and the pastor was rightfully wary of him.

I don't blame the cop for getting defensive. They are one draw of a gun from getting shot, and it's natural to assume that is someone is angry and bellegerent then they want to fight. I can't say I am with the cop on detaining and searching the car. That was clearly wrong.

I do blame the cop for getting defensive. He placed himself in a position where he had to be defensive from the get go. He could have simply informed the driver that his license plate light was burnt out and left it at that, with no real need to ask for license and registration, and the police officer certainly had the discretion to do just that. Instead, he chose a more offensive strategy.

But the situation would have never gone there if the driver would have just been calm. His answers were not even wrong. They were right, but the way he answered was 100% wrong.

Your entire argument, where you defend the police officer for being defensive based upon a perceived threat to him, with no regard for the obvious threat to the driver and passengers by the police officer, is a tone I don't much care for. I am, however, an ardent supporter of individual rights, and you have the right to take whatever tone you wish in this debate. Would that police officer take the same view of individual rights, that video would never have achieved the power it holds today.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by The_Gypsy

 

yea and real life doesn't always sound exactly like a manual. that pastor threatened the officer in no way, and yet one of the officers felt compelled to tell him how 'deadly' his weapon is. lots of people are jerks. but maybe a police officer should be trained to deal with jerks in a responsible way.

If he was courteous to the officer, he would have been on his way. He might not have even given him a ticket. I don't apologize for police, I generally don't like em or what alot of them do. I've met really bad ones and good ones. The guy was a jerk and was asking for it. He brought it on himself. If you don'y hae to comply then don't, you don't have to br a jackass about it.

I got off on a DUI once because I stood up for my rights without being a jackass. The judge said twice that the police report read that I was polite. I complied with what the officers asked without giving up any rights. If I was a jerk to the cops it would have been a different story.

Watch the very, very first part of the tape again.
The preacher was not mad, only stating his rights, when the cop says to him
"YOU SHUT UP!!"

Then you will notice the preacher's voice gets more pressured and a bit higher, and it escalates from there.

Cops are human? Not all of them act like it....like tazing old people and little kids...IMO cops need a PR campaign and a whole lot more communication skills training. It seems like such a simple thing to me....but in almost every video I watch with some bad outcome compared to the severity of the crime, I see some really bad communication practices taking place. Sometimes I glimpse what I think is some inhumanity too - like continuing to taze someone because they freak out when it hurts...

I'd really love to see them get rid of the tazers too. This guy, to me, acted like he was really scared of them.
When law abiding citizens, snarky or not, are terrorized by their encounters with police, heck, who exactly are the terrorists?

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


Of course he should have.

But things don't usually happen as they should.

Like I said, they probably wanted ID to keep a record of who they talked to and stopped. And yes, even though they were not driving they were part of the stop. A police officer doesn't need a legal reason to come and ask you questions, and you don't have a legal requirement to answer them.. But he mostly just wanted to check ID for any warrants. ]

Asking someone to see ID is not provocation. It's extremely routine for them.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I am sure that police officers would like many things, and possibly even like unicorns and fairy dust, but they are officers of the law, and sworn to uphold the law. Of course, they are free to ask for identification, but the pastor was free to speak against the request, and the police officer ordering him to shut up was out of line, and a provocation. While police officers are free to ask for identification, a little discretion in such matters is prudent. Knowing who the passengers were in a vehicle that was pulled over for a burnt out light on a license plate hardly constitutes prudent police work.

I'm not suggesting the officer did everything perfectly.

The cop was armed and dangerous, later confirming how dangerous he was by the very real threat he made, and the pastor was rightfully wary of him.

And this man could have just as easily been dangerous.

do blame the cop for getting defensive. He placed himself in a position where he had to be defensive from the get go. He could have simply informed the driver that his license plate light was burnt out and left it at that, with no real need to ask for license and registration, and the police officer certainly had the discretion to do just that. Instead, he chose a more offensive strategy.

He would not have been placed in the situation if the driver wasn't a belegerent jackass. Do you think a cop is going to stop a vehicle without checking to make sure the driver is licensed and the vehicle actually is registered?

our entire argument, where you defend the police officer for being defensive based upon a perceived threat to him, with no regard for the obvious threat to the driver and passengers by the police officer, is a tone I don't much care for. I am, however, an ardent supporter of individual rights, and you have the right to take whatever tone you wish in this debate. Would that police officer take the same view of individual rights, that video would never have achieved the power it holds today.

Police still have a job to do. He was trying to do his job. If you don't want to see a cop get defensive, don't be offensive. There's a way to do things. You do know this right? I've had plenty of run ins with cops where things went fine. They didnt point their guns at me, they didn't do anymore than they needed to.

I only defend this officer because I know a jackass when I see one. And this time the jackass was sitting in the car seat.

I would like to see how some of you would handle this situation if you were the officer. Would you be polite to someone being a jerk to you? If so, you are a saint and I tip my hat to you.

I, of course, would try my best to keep my wits about me, but everyone has a button and I am no exception. This guy was being rude, but then again, he wasn't doing anything illegal. He was just being a jerk, and the cop reacted to it. He took the bait.

I am sure everyone here has a button that sends them over the edge. Being video taped by a jerk that is intentionally giving me hell when all I want to do is ask a few questions would irritate me too.

Death threats are never called for, though.

Oh, and kids, keep this in mind while you are parading around your anarchy flags: you don't receive respect when you don't give it. Never expect to receive respect when you do not give it first. Even if you don't respect the profession, or the person, be polite and more times than not the other person will be polite to you. If you go around all militant, you will get reactions you don't like, but you had it coming. Don't cry foul when you aren't in the right yourself.

reply to post by Miraj

He would not have been placed in the situation if the driver wasn't a belegerent jackass. Do you think a cop is going to stop a vehicle without checking to make sure the driver is licensed and the vehicle actually is registered?

This is a false assertion. The driver was not a belligerent jackass, the cop was. The cop did not have to ask the passengers for identification, he chose to. The pastor correctly informed the passengers of their rights. The cop then became belligerent and told the driver to shut up. That was the sequence of events shown in the video.

As to your question, the cop has the discretion to not ask for license and registration. He is not bound by any law that forces him to ask for license and registration, and clearly since the driver was able to supply both license and registration, the cops fishing expedition was fruitless. The cop didn't have to stop the driver at all. A burnt out light on a license plate is a very minor infraction. However, as a courtesy, he could have pulled the vehicle over long enough to inform the driver of the burnt out light, with no need to ask for any license and registration. It was purely a fishing expedition for the police officer, nothing more.

Police still have a job to do. He was trying to do his job.

That job is to protect the rights of individuals. In no way, shape, or form did the police officer do his job in this context. He instead used a minor traffic violation as an excuse to harass innocent people.

If you don't want to see a cop get defensive, don't be offensive.

First of all, the cop was on the offense, not the driver. Secondly, if you don't want to see people get defensive with cops, stop encouraging cops to be needlessly offensive.

There's a way to do things. You do know this right?

I do. There is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. The cop was wrong. The pastor was well within his rights. You do know what rights are, don't you?

I've had plenty of run ins with cops where things went fine.

So have I. I have also had a few run in with cops, where I was just as polite as the times when things went fine, and still found myself confronted with belligerent cops. Politeness is not a guarantee against belligerence, and bullies are bullies regardless of how much consideration you give them.

I only defend this officer because I know a jackass when I see one. And this time the jackass was sitting in the car seat.

In a world where tyranny is tolerated, your view may have some validity, but we live in the United States of America where tyranny is still frowned upon by decent people. Sycophants of tyranny are jackasses, not people who refuse to acquiesce to unreasonable demands by bullies.

What are these conditioning rituals and why do we comply? "Where are you going, show me your ID"...

GFYS.

I understand wanting to determine that the driver is in good standing (suspended license etc.) but why the interrogation of the others when they are simply sitting there?

How does one anticipate being pulled over for a faulty license plate bulb? Are you kidding me? Not careless, aggressive, wreck-less, speeding, nothing. Either these cops have absolutely nothing to do or they are intentionally targeting him.

Wow just write up a ticket for the light.
That is what happens to everyone else.
A pain but it happens.
Just drive into a gas station and they replace these little lights at no cost.
Good for return business.
I got a blinker light replaced and kept going back to that station.
Give the guy an escort to a gas station to replace the bulb.
How about that.
Yeah too kind.
Ed: Some people just don't get it. I saw a patrol car right behind
a car making a left turn, no turn signal on.
The officer just followed him and lit up his lights.
Happily they cleared the lane so I could proceed.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Inflammatory.

Twisted.

Escalation.

These are words I choose to use to describe the pastor not the Officer.

It is my belief he intentionally had his license plate light out.

If not why else would he be video-taping the incident?

Another idiot looking for his fifteen minutes of YouTube fame.

So he can go on Oprah and cry crocodile tears about the oppresionist Fascist Police State.

Every Time Someone Called You A Fascist, They Might Have Been Right, Is Your Ideology Fascist?

What a crock of crap.

Now to the Police Officer.

He should have written the ticket and left.

He let an idiot make himself look worse because he did not know how to handle the situation.

Too bad he was being video-taped.

The origin of the video and intent was towards escalating a traffic stop.

Period.

Too bad this is an Arizona incident because that makes this incident less credible.

Mexico : The American/Mexican Border, Why Your Rights Are Gone, Because of Arizona...

Meanwhile the border issue is a distraction through the Arizona nonsense.

You can tell this because the pastor escalates when it is obviously not necessary.

He becomes a drama-Queen making an issue about a request for others ID's.

A Police Officer is allowed to ask any occupant of a vehicle he stops any questions he feels as necessary.

The pastor's finger-pointing, at his steering wheel, is immediate escalation and agitation.

Sheepdogs vs. Wolves : Law Enforcement, Predators and Prey, and Love or Hate Cops...

The pastor is a wanna-be "wolf" prodding an inexperienced "sheepdog" who gets irritated.

In essence the pastor is nothing but a Cop-hating fool too bent on catching a Cop doing wrong.

Not enough on actual politics but trying to create his own "injustice" story through abuse of an Officer.