Has anyone thought about this? - Did you at least consider it?

Originally posted by Mobius1974
There has been a think tank somewhere, that has discussed what the masses will do when the SHTF. How deep have they gotten into it?

That's something I've thought about a lot. I've read a few books about the Warsaw ghetto and places like that. Some of the people who survived that, survived by chance, fluke, luck or whatever you want to call it. Some even lived down the drains for years.

I'm sure all bases are covered by tptb for any future scenario where they don't want any escapees. Then there's the paperwork. The Nazis were sophisticated for their time for their headcounts, these days I'm sure everything's been thought out. Still, where there's a will there might be a way.

One thing I've always wondered. - How do you hide from those night vision helicopters?

I know exactly where im going, how im going to get there, have secondary and third locations, all of them are bottle neck defensable positions with covered escape routes. And am prepared for night vision devices and IR..

I am prepared for most shtf scenarios.

There are local mountains around me, but they're already infested with meth addicts, pot growers and the homeless. So, based on that, we're fortified and plan on bugging "in". No need to battle the traffic jams, checkpoints (real or otherwise) and whatever else may present itself once on the road. We've got plenty of food stores, cooking fuel, water and ammo. So we're GTG for a good long while.

Now if the military moves in with IR/FLIR equipped helo's, well, it doesn't really matter who or where you are since they will find you.

Expect/plan for the worst and hope for the best....

One thing I've always wondered. - How do you hide from those night vision helicopters?

reply to post by wigit


If you lay up at night cover yourself with a survival blanket (those tin foily things you see at the end of marathons) and dirt. This will reduce your IR signiture.

I would move at night however and would take out the pilot with an IR torch which would blind him and not disclose your position to people not wearing night vision equiptment.

IR torches have many uses i am not posting here.

Originally posted by Yissachar1

If you lay up at night cover yourself with a survival blanket (those tin foily things you see at the end of marathons) and dirt. This will reduce your IR signiture.

IR torches have many uses i am not posting here.

Thanks for that. I knew there was a solution, just didn't know what it was.

I think my biggest worry in a SHTF situation would be that the UK could become more and more like one huge ghetto anyway, that the borders will be shut once it's overcrowded and there'll be nowhere to go. No planes, no boats. Just trapped. We're just a teeny island but they seem to be letting more and more people in. Is it stupidity, or a plan? Or am I being a tad paranoid?

Originally posted by wigit

Originally posted by Yissachar1

If you lay up at night cover yourself with a survival blanket (those tin foily things you see at the end of marathons) and dirt. This will reduce your IR signiture.

IR torches have many uses i am not posting here.

Thanks for that. I knew there was a solution, just didn't know what it was.

I think my biggest worry in a SHTF situation would be that the UK could become more and more like one huge ghetto anyway, that the borders will be shut once it's overcrowded and there'll be nowhere to go. No planes, no boats. Just trapped. We're just a teeny island but they seem to be letting more and more people in. Is it stupidity, or a plan? Or am I being a tad paranoid?

I know this sounds cliché but when in doubt head for the hills.. There usually a good water source, cover and natural matirials you can use to make crude shelters and tools. In parts of the UK even the most desolate looking place harbours stuff like peat for burning, plenty of soil you can use to filter water if there is contaminants (including radioactive fallout).. Just study these things and it will give you the know how..

No matter what though water is your prioritry and should be the tlp of your list in planning.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
I know this sounds cliché but when in doubt head for the hills..

I've thought of that actually. In Scotland there are huge ranges of hills, (the Highlands) It would be just my luck to plant myself there and find it's over some secret underground base and I'm caught already.

I'll have to consider making like a wild Highlander and living up in the trees.

Originally posted by Yissachar1

One thing I've always wondered. - How do you hide from those night vision helicopters?

reply to post by wigit

 

If you lay up at night cover yourself with a survival blanket (those tin foily things you see at the end of marathons) and dirt. This will reduce your IR signiture.

A Wet-suit, although uncomfortable, should effectively do the same thing.

me dont have to go anywhere i am safe were i am.... Live on an island, not many people and good fishing waters,,
lots of moorland too and peat to burn as fuel. fresh water in abundace..
so mb ok here
we will see x

reply to post by Mobius1974


No offense OP but it's a waste of precious time. IF the SHTF then, why are you spending these non-chit-hitting times preparing for something that might not happen? Especially, when you have no idea what it might entail even if it does? You won't know what roads will be blocked or even if your 'escape route' will be available.
It's dumb. Stop it!
Stop with this gold hoarding too. IF the SHTF, who needs your gold anyway? There'll be no market.

This to me is like preparing for death while you're still alive! And THAT'S....a given. But it's silly and counterproductive (not to mention, unfair to the value of your life.)

It's nonsense and by taking the time NOW to prepare for an "IF" is, giving into them. Don't you see that? They win. They have you right where they want you. Fearful. Plotting. Worrying. Hoarding. Buying and not living your life but......cow-towing to theirs.

I say defy authority and live your life to the fullest! Relax. Life is hard enough right now. Don't let them rob you of anymore.

reply to post by Human_Alien


yeah.. I see your point.. Putting any thought into "what if" scenario's is a complete waste of time. Why would someone want to think through several scenario's and plan different routes with the time allowed. Why not just take 5 minutes to post about how someone else should waste any time on it. I am sure that this is not the first time you have said that to someone. I simply find it easy to think through situations when I am doing things that allow for extended times of thought. ie. Driving - Mowing the lawn - Speeding accross a lake to get to your fishing spot. Why wouldn't you want to think about your options? That is completely illogical to me. Your reasoning is illogical to me.


Do you have children? Have you gone through any safety plans with them? For different sorts of emergencies? If you dont, you should be ashamed. If I wasted that on someone without kids, you'll still get my point. I don't find it a bother or inconvienience. I have a calmer feeling knowing that I am prepared.

This is a topic that has worried me greatly for the better part of two years. I am well aware of what will happen, but have no means to prepare for it. I am college age, but never have more than $250 saved up because of all my bills tuition ect. Even if I had the best escape plan ever, I would run out of money and/or resources quickly.

I may be the only awake person in my family (I have a lot in the area, but live alone), so my plan is to try to tell them what is happening right when in starts, and hope that they will listen and get supplies before it is too late. Families sticking together is what got the Soviets through their nightmarish crash. Please tell me any ideas you may have, I'm all ears and looking for help. Thanks!

Ok, here goes my plan.

Locations will be left out, simply because I like posting with you folks.. but I dont want you sharing camp with me.

I have the most basic esentials ready to go. Rice and other dehydrated foods. I do not plan on a large food supply to run with...

My thoughts are - My most important aspects are - the actual travel to my end location and then the most comfortable camp I can create in the least amount of time.

The list I have come up with - Some are not necessary for survival, but I have 3 children that I want to make as comfortable as possible while this is happeneing.

1) Large tent- 3 inflatable full size matresses.
2) 2 large tarps
3) 1- 5 foot salmon cooler- this fits the tent/tarps/matresses/5 rifles/shotguns bow and several arrows./first aid kit and clothes - attaches to rack on back of quad. The cooler works as a good back rest for where my passengers will be sitting.
4) 4 wheeler with 4'X4' tralier.- Trailer hauls 2 bikes- chainsaw- 2 - 50 gallon drums-
5) Coleman tv/radio with enough batteries to run it for years.
6) First aid kit- Very important if you have kids.. Think of every medicine you use and get a few years worth.
5) 2- 30 gallon gas cans - sit on front of quad...

We have a couple of hockey players in my family... I have 2 extra hockey bags that will fit ALL of our clothes.

I have taken the time on a few saturdays to fill up 1 gallon water jugs with necessary seeds. Corn - Tomatoes - white widow - beets - carrots.
I have collected these on my own but there are places that you can buy a kit of the best seeds in an emergency.
www.survivalseedbank.com...
F.Y.I -- I might have 30$ invested in roughly 50 times the amount of seeds offered in these kits for 149.00 +

I also have found these matches that you can drop in water .. let sit.. pull them out/strike them and they will light.
The matches I found are Coleman - But recently I found a place that sold lighters for .10 cents - I bought 100 of them.

I have found 2 - 5 gallon bucket sized rolls of twine - these will come in handy in a multitude of situations.



Now my perfect scenario would be - to have enough time to get out by vehicle and tow trailer with quad.... But if the roads are jammed - My alternative is to head dead east to Lake huron and go by boat up into canada.....Yes the quad and trailer would fit on the boat- not an easy task... but possible.

This has also brought me to another Idea that I have been throwing around.

The great lakes have an abundance of small islands.... I recently have started throwing around the idea of heading for one of the islands.

We have a house in Alpena. There are several islands all over this area.

The only downfall I can see from this location, is the lack of wildlife. ie. deer-boar-rabbits-squirls-raccoons....
But... at the same time- the fish are in abundance.

I do not like- not having a concrete plan in place. All I have spent is free time and minimal money on planning this.

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by Ethyrial Symphony

 

I have a buddy with a Seaplane.. If at all possible.. He is single and can travel better than my 5 person family can.. I might steal it in case of emergency... When the SHTF.. During the escape, I have no friends.. Only immediate family!

I don't understand this sentiment at all. I understand planning, I understand prepared.

I get the message, in reading threads and discussions, that it's going to be rough, everyone is going to be out for themselves.

But really, what kind of person _plans_ on stealing from their friends, and literally robbing him of his escape plan.

That sir, is more telling of what to expect than anything I have read/heard.

reply to post by thoughtform


Really could you point out where I said that this water plane was his escape plan? Were you aware that this would probably be the LAST method he would use. Would you have a clue, that he might be mid -air over the atlantic?
You knew and know nothing... But jump on your soap box and preach! This tells me about how doomed some folks are. I can assure you .. if the SHTF.. you will have to kill another human to survive. There are those of us that are going to be looking for survival.... there are people that dont care about society and survival now.. How do you think these dark elements of society are going to act when it all goes bad?

Boy, do you live in a fantasy world.

Instead of writing a 3 paragraph explanation of how exactly I would acquire his plane was not going to happen... But here I am force to feed a person an explanation.

"Oh no your going to steal a plane...... Let me talk down to you and then convey a sense of social disapointment."

He would probably not use this water plane... He has several long distance planes that he would probably use in its place. But... If I couldnt reach him.. I would essentially be taking a piece of property that was not my own- Hence- Stealing- I am saddened that I had to explain this to someone on here.

If it happend mid day.. he would probably be in the air some where in the US. I live 4 miles from his home/lake/plane-

If the situation allowed I would be given full access to this plane... I was thinking out loud!!! The plane is not my ideal transportation.

I couldnt bring as many supplies and would have to abandon my main transportation.

Save the world and humanity on another thread.

The dilusion you have is funny.. If your child was starving and you had to break a law to feed them.. If you say you wouldn't .. You dont have kids! Period!

Or, you are not aware of what you will be willing to do to feed your family!

IMO- it is going to be everyone for themselves in the initial panic and disorder! If you want to stand on the corner directing traffic and telling people to follow laws, go right ahead!

reply to post by Mobius1974


You missed my point, I see now, it is one of those things you have thought so much about you have rationalized it to yourself, and that you are probably a decent person.
You can write 1000 page diatribe on it if you wish, it's not going to change the awfulness of the act.

The fact that people are going to do this to one another at drop of a hat is bad enough.

But to plan and rationalize, and the worst part about is 'pre-planning' to 'steal' from a 'friend'.

I'm walking a thin line here, I know you are probably a decent person, and I don't want to offend you; but what you described, and the callousness that was in it just took me by surprise because I was liking your thread.


edit: the point I want to make is that if you are going to plan to steal resources, and you have the opportunity to pre-plan, why not pre-plan to steal something that is not your friends.

I guess this bothers me, because I am concerned about everyone acting like that.

I trust my friends, but do I really know them, are they thinking that way too about my resources??
just spooky spooky stuff..

reply to post by thoughtform


What i didnt want to take is the time to type all of this.. This 100K plane is one of his smallest investments... Would I be stealing it?- yes it is not mine- If I couldnt reach him by phone and took it ....that would be stealing! Do i think he would care if I took it today? probably.. Would he care if I took it in a SHTF Scenario? not one bit. Have i told him that I have thought about.. We talked about it watching the lions game and playing poker on Sunday..

At this point he explained the down sides to that plane and its limitations as far as distance.. This was a conversation about "what ifs" not a discussion about moral issues.. I would have explained myself better if it were important to the topic I was addressing.

Just a note: Does it matter that it is a firend.. you make it sound like stealing from a stranger is ok... Let me tell you this.. The SHTF - I wont be answering texts from "friends"

Did I feel that I needed to explain this in detail... Not one bit.. Did I know , one guy would focus on 1 sentence of this and force me to type 100X more than I wanted to.. not one bit! .. But here we are.

Although, his plane has come to mind.. In all seriousness it would not be the best idea.. I was simply throwing out ideas..

Lets go over the stealing and criminal behavior I PLAN on taking part in...
I plan on illegally accessing Canada. I plan on hunting and fishing without a lisense. When I get to my destination - If I find a cabin that is abandoned- I plan on breaking in and using it as my own. If someone approaches our site- I plan on pointing a gun at his face and demanding an explanation of his intentions- If I pass a pasture with cows- I will gladly kill then strip this mans cow of its back straps - There really is not a law that I plan on abiding by. Like I have stated - My families well being is my top priority- My daughters smile is a great motivator. Unfortunately my families needs are more important to me than yours or your families.
I would hope that you feel the same way about your family.

If I have the luxery of taking care of others, I will... But I will not for any reason jepardize my families well being for you or yours. I am a very caring person. I will most definetly help out where I can...but again... I will not sacrifice my families resources or chances for escape for you or yours... And again, I hope you feel the same way about your family.

If you have kids, I would assume you would understand.

Call me selfish - I call it survival of the fitest.

reply to post by Mobius1974


I knew it! you do have a soul, and are part of the good team.


But you can't survive alone, do you want to end up 'post-sitX', all by yourself, mistrusting everybody, and obsessed with survival that you lose your humanity.

You can be tough, rugged, a _survivor_, and also be kind, generous, helpful...

I'm realistic, and an avid prepper/planner , but I also believe that whatever happens, it is pulling together with love, that we will overcome whatever tribulations that come towards humanity.

Better to plan on helping others, of course in the real situation, immediately your concern is your immediate family.
But the one person that you help and feed and shelter, may be the one that leads you to salvation later.

reply to post by thoughtform


See, I am also taking psychology into consideration. I do not feel that your interpretations are correct. I think that your view of things will start to take place weeks or months after the initial exodus. When the SHTF - you are going to have the worst come out in people.

I think that there is going to be a panic mentality for the begining and then a lengthened sense of long term survival later.

Your ideas of love and caring are going to get you killed IMO-

You have a very grand view of people... I feel that this will be your downfall..

Go break down on I95 and see how quick you get help.... Now add panic to the scenario.. Boy, I hope you are open to a change in ideas.

Your thought process on this is going to get you and your family in trouble-

If you are dead set on helping the world when the SHTF.. I would reccomend that you get to your spot and then help people. You helping others during the initial panicis going to get you killed. Your family should not have to suffer from your ideas of sainthood.

You let the wrong man in your vehicle ... Now you have a gun to your head, he takes your ride and now your on the side of the road.