Understanding Terrorism

Hi folks,

Instead of bashing at each other back and forth, let's see if we can actually come to understand Terrorism a little better. I believe understanding is the key here to find solutions and prevent more terrorism in the future. Something I'm sure we would all appreciate.

Now this actually requires that we use our brain (which bashing does not to the same extent), so I encourage everyone to take some time and think about the content we exchange here.

I have discovered some factors that in my opinion are highly involved in the development of potential terrorist actions:

* Education
* Surrounding
* Provocation
* Values / Religions / Beliefs
* (Feel free to add more)

As far as I know about life in general, we all want to continue living, we all have some sense of wanting to develop, learn more, be better (best) and "expand". However, the competition, limitations and complexion of the world we live in makes this increasingly difficult.

All people encounter obstacles during their lives (problems). More or less. Larger or smaller. We deal with the obstacles according to our beliefs, backgrounds, habits, values and understandings.

Life in south can be much different from life in north, as with east, west and all locations in between. We grow up under different circumstances and hence our lives develop in different directions.

Life may be fair in the aspect that we are all equipped with the ability to change and learn, but not everyone know about this, believe this or are willing to comply with this due to many reasons, and hence feelings of unfairness are easily fostered in people.

Fear is an important aspect that can drive people to do things they would normally never do.

Anger is another, which develops when someone is perceived to have been treated unfairly by another (or life in general).

During all time, people have been questioning events and been looking for reasons. In most cases it feels better to know the answer to a question than not to, so we are naturally striving towards understanding.

Many times the facts and information is not enough, so we "make up" answers, which gradually becomes beliefs and eventually satisfy our needs.

After spending some time with children, we can notice that there may be both hostile and loving acts performed by children from all nations all over the world. The hostile behaviour is natural. It's connected to our basic survival need and later to our gradually developing other sets of needs. With good education and environment people can develop to good loving beings, however, since the basic survival need along with the other more "adult" needs are always present, this education background is only a foundation, and can be destroyed by circumstances.

Killing is a natural thing. We have evolved as humans to peaceful beings, but killing is still a part of us in all aspects. It serves in it's most basic form as a survival act. Even though our social values have developed tremendously during the years through education, understanding and love, the negative and destructive aspects are still deep within all of us.

From my point of view, any person alive are able to and would, in certain circumstances choose the act of killing something or somebody to gain some kind of advantage or similar. It is recognized that most people from "civilized" countries tend to imagine that they would not, but here I do disagree. If so I suggest your imagination is just not developed enough.

I suggest that all kinds of terrorism is justified. This of course not based on our social rules or commonly accepted ideologies... but based on the fact that we are life. We are not equipped to act always in the favour of the highest good for all life. However we are equipped each one of us with our own senses, values, understandings and motives. Be that good or evil.

I suggest that the discomfort you experience when your football team looses a game is similar to the discomfort you would feel but magnified if your country was invaded by foreigners.

I suggest that the anger you feel when your car breaks down is similar but magnified to what you would feel if your house was torn apart, and similar to how you would feel but even more magnified if your life was crushed for some other reason.

Events like this can lead to pain and sorrow. It can also lead to anger and wanting revenge. Depending on the cause (and education)

Understanding of this is the key to understanding of terrorism, hence the understanding of how we can better handle terrorism.

Not with violence, not with revenge, cause that will only fuel the anger. Also not by intimidation, lies, bad behaviour or bad language...

Am I being clear enough here...?

Ideas much appreciated. Solutions even more. Arguing and Discussion highly encouraged but please, please do reply with your brain. Don't let the emotions catch you like the terrorists do, hehe

Cheers

The only thing that seperates us from the other animals on the planet is our ability to use reason to override our natural instincts for anger, violence, and destruction. We, unlike other animals, have detailed, time based memories of our actions and we also have the ability to recognize and understand the consequinces of those actions. This gives us a higher resonsibility than any other species on the planet. This responsibility is to grow, to become greater than we were when we began. We are the only species of animal that can do this as only we have the mental capability to mark history and learn from it. This goal of growth and improvement is something that seems hardwired into us and I feel it is directly related to our higher reasoning capabilities.

If the above is true, it would seem that we have superior mentalities but these are still encased and restricted by animal bodies that are subject to the hormone induced behaviors and the same instincts found in any animal.

Terrorism uses acts that the terrorists believe are most opposed to the values held by the superior thinking creature that we all are. The terrorists have decided that they cannot propigate or defend their philosophies and actions by appealing to the reasoning human being. Instead, they try to scare and frighten the human animal. They strike at us at our most basic and savage level. They would use our instincts against us to control us since we have rejected them and their philosophies by using reason to decide that their way is not the best way. These terrorists are not leaders. If they were, they wouldn't need to resort to such tactics.

Bottom line:

Terrorists are savage and barbaric by choice. They have rejected the way of reason since their ideas and lust for control could not be imposed or coerced using that medium. They know that a person that reasons and thinks doesn't need their system of control. Terrorism has nothing to do with Religion. It's about ego, pride, power. They would have us all be animals, acting from fear and instinct, instead of humans, acting from reason and considered action.

i think it has something to do with religion. not that im disagreeing with what your saying, but religious differences must be partial motivation for it.

Originally posted by asdasd12345
i think it has something to do with religion. not

but religious differences must be partial motivation for it.

You are so right, its all about religion.
If someone tries to tell you diffrent, just turn and walk away. The number one reason or all of this is religion.


More blood has been shed over religion than anything else. Period.

[edit on 25-6-2004 by SpittinCobra]

[edit on 25-6-2004 by SpittinCobra]

No, we're talking about Terrorism. Are you saying that terrorism can't exist without a religous motivation behind it?

Examples of non-religous based terrorism:

Oklahoma City Bombing
ELF enviormental burning of property

Those are just the two that jumped to mind in less than a minute. I am sure I could find more.

[edited for spelling]

[edit on 25-6-2004 by Ambient Sound]

There are exceptions for everthing, I thought we where talking about what is going on now.

Again, no, we are talking about what terrorism is. The title of the topic is Understanding Terrorism, right?

[edited for threadflow]
[edit on 25-6-2004 by Ambient Sound]

[edit on 25-6-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Again, no, we are talking about what terrorism is. The title of the topic is Understanding Terrorism, right?

Im sorry, you dont have to be an ... Ambient you like most of us only have opioins, not facts.

Don't worry, you won't find me defending any religion. I think they all are a really big scam, and I agree that more destruction has been carried out for this stupidest of reasons than any other force in history. I'm just saying that terrorism is not dependant on religion and any discussion of terrorism that confines it to such is incomplete.

Terrorism is a tactic that can be utilized by anyone willing to bury the thinking reasoning human being within themselves and let the human animal take control.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Again, no, we are talking about what terrorism is. The title of the topic is Understanding Terrorism, right?

Im sorry, you dont have to be an ... Ambient you like most of us only have opioins, not facts.

Opinions. Isn't that all that any of us really have? Isn't that what the original poster asked for?

Ok, fact then. From dictionary.com:

ter�ror�ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm) n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Now, if you had asked me why these RITs (Radical Islamic Terrorists) that we are having such a problem with choose terrorism as their prefered method, then I must say it is for the same reasons that I gave in my original reply. They have failed to propigate their religion by peaceful means (because it is backward, violent, and only seeks power, IMO). Left with no other options, and unconcerened about what people might really want for themselves, they must then spread their brand of religion by force and fear. Their pride and egos permit nothing else.

i am curious. what makes you think they are trying to propagate islam?

have you heard/seen reports saying that they are doing these terrorist acts because they have failed to spread islam?

Qur�an 8:12 �Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: �I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.�

Qur�an 8:39 �So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.�

I think that says it all...

[edited for spelling]


[edit on 25-6-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Religion may play a part in it but I think a big cause of terrorism is jealousy and greed pure and simple. Plus a religion that tells them to kill the infidels. They are jealous of the wealth that the western countries have. In my opinion they can't see the dirfference between Americans< Brits or the french. We are all light skinned rich people to them plus for the most part we are Christians or Jews etc. Greed and jealousy are the first motivators with their religion bringing up a close second.
Please before you get on my case about Islam I am just going by what I have heard out there.It has been said many places that they want to convert the world to Islam.
Plus the suicide bombers wanting to get "into heaven" to claim their 72 virgins!!

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
They have failed to propigate their religion by peaceful means (because it is backward, violent, and only seeks power, IMO). Left with no other options, and unconcerened about what people might really want for themselves, they must then spread their brand of religion by force and fear. Their pride and egos permit nothing else.

Yes - I have to agree wholeheartedly with that statement.

Still for most of them it comes down to education. They can't be educated because they're brainwashed by their religion. They're in a corner that they can't get out of. Of course I don't believe this is true for many of their leaders like bin laden. I think he's just pissed because he see's his people (not his family) are mostly an uneducated worker class being exploited by the wealthy elite in his country through the sales of oil to the west.

Religion has for so long kept the world from progressing forward and those who don't like the reality of progreess are grasping at whatever they can to halt it. When the rest of the world changes and suddenly your world is forced to change with it and you don't like that change, what do you do? You attack those you see responsible for the change.

There are people who I went to school with who havn't changed in twenty years, partially because they live in a small community. They have the same beliefs as they had at 18 and they're not interested in budging or growing any further. Of course they were not considered ignorant 20 years ago, but since they haven't grown since I guess you could consider them ignorant now because the world has changed but they have not.

The connection I'm trying to make is that terrorist mostly come from places that are socially isolated from the mainstream ideas of the planet thus they are ignorant to the reality of the world. They see the world as a threat to their religion because their religion hasn't grown or adjusted with the knowledge or progress of mankind. The world has long discarded certain ideas as the world has grown more educated and realizes those old ideas are wrong or don't make sense any longer. They are unable to accept reality because it doesn't fit within their old dusty book and thus they attack those responsible for bringing reality to light.

Of course I'm sure there are terrorist who don't fit that at all and there are oppressive goverments who give them no other choice, but to become terrorist or live as slaves - ah the good terrorist (freedom fighters) if you will.





[edit on 26-6-2004 by outsider]

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Terrorists are savage and barbaric by choice. They have rejected the way of reason since their ideas and lust for control could not be imposed or coerced using that medium.

Or maybe because they tried appealing to the powers that be but were ignored? And finally got so tired and frustrated of the injustices they were living and the impossibility to obtain change by dialogue that they resorted to violence?

You can never judge a man if you haven't walked a mile in his shoes.

Originally posted by Otts

Or maybe because they tried appealing to the powers that be but were ignored? And finally got so tired and frustrated of the injustices they were living and the impossibility to obtain change by dialogue that they resorted to violence?

You can never judge a man if you haven't walked a mile in his shoes.

What powers that be are you refering to? Do not they control their own societies? Do not they live in Islamic states? Is not Saudi Arabia 100% Islamic?

Yes, for whatever reason they have chosen terrorism as their prefered method of war. Perhaps we should appeal to the "powers that be" and then when we don't get what we want, we then, by your reasoning, have ample justification to use terrorism against them. Keep in mind that the most terrible thing we know of involves Nuclear Weapons, but you by putting forth the idea that the ends justifies the means say that that would be ok since we are getting tired of injustices that can't be resoved with dialogue.

ok here goes. i am not an expert on islam but i presume that is a quote from the quran. so the quran says kill the unbelivers, behead them etc etc until only moslems remain. right, that is what the book says ill leave at that.

now we all know that islam has been around for ages (as long as christianity?) there are an estd 9.9m (US), 1.5m (UK) and heaps more moslems throughout the world today. should the rest of us non-moslems even be alive today? why arent the rest of the moslems out on a rampage getting rid of non-believers? surely they must be able to find time between prayers to carry out what the book says or are the majority bad practitioners of the faith?

heres a blurb translated from nick bergs video "...Nation of Islam, Is there any excuse left to sit idly by? How can a free Muslim sleep soundly while Islam is being slaughtered, its honor bleeding and the images of shame in the news of the satanic abuse of the Muslim men and women in the prison of Abu-Ghraib. Where is your zeal and where is the anger for the religion of Allah? And where is the jealousy over the honor of the Muslims and where is the revenge for the honor of the Muslim men and women in the prisons of the Crusaders?..." the rest is here tides.carebridge.org...

IF the majority of the moslems gave a rats ass about the 2 paragraphs quoted from the book, there should be no need to even call upon other moslems to lash out/seek revenge, etc etc. Seems like these guys (al-qaeda) are begging their brethren for support. Its also clear to me that theyre pissed off with ones who did smthg in abu-ghraib.

i see no mention of beheading and getting rid of non-believers. ill even bet that they have no qualms with the sioux, eskimos, mexicans who will be in that group.

just my view.

You're almost saying I condone terrorism. I don't. What I'm saying - and I'll maintain that - is that if we want to defeat terrorism, we have to try to UNDERSTAND the conditions in which terrorists are created. For some reason or another, these people have a grudge against the West, and I doubt very much that they just woke up one day and decided to hate the U.S.

Blindly bombing the terrorists is only going to create more destruction and more dissatisfied people, hence more terrorists. And the excuse that "they brought it on themselves" just isn't good enough.

Do we forget that while we now condemn Saddam's abuses of human rights, the U.S. kept arming him in the 80's to keep his war with Iran going?

Do we also forget that while we condem Saddam's abuses of human rights, we kiss up to a regime in Saudi Arabia which continues to lawfully behead its citizens?

Do we forget that no matter what happens or how aggressive Israel gets towards the Palestinians, we support Israeli policy blindly and keep calling for the Palestinians to disarm in the face of the tanks destroying their homes?

A number of Muslim regimes are still pretty medieval, I'll grant that. But the U.S. has a funny way of forgetting that aspect when there's oil involved.

Originally posted by agent

why arent the rest of the moslems out on a rampage getting rid of non-believers?

If their technology wasn't as stagnant as their philosophy, I think they might be.

However, I believe that the same dogma and attitudes that keep their social evolution at a 7th Century level keep their science sufficiently stunted so as not to make that a valid option for them.

They cannot convert us by reason, their's being an unresonable philosophy ungrounded in any fact. They cannot convert us by force since our system promotes science and social advancement. Terrorism is the only other option they have, except for altering their goals, which apparently they are unable or unwilling to do.

what i was trying to say is that what these guys are doing have got nothing to do with islam.

they are hiding under the veil of islam to garner support from fellow moslems for support to attain their agendas.

they are hiding under the veil of islam when they murder someone and make it seem like what they are doing is divine and their gods wishes.

why do they hide under the veil of islam? bcoz what theyre doing is ridiculous and no one in their right mind will support/join them. so they use religion and some actually fall for it.