Who Are More Violent, Pro Choice Advocates Or Pro Life Advocates?

Well I think the terms should be named "pro-abortion", "anti-abortion". The reason being that those "pro life" people actually aren't on other issues. They support the death penalty and in favor of guns (which cause harm or death).

I can find several sources that would say "pro lifers" have violently attacked and killed people; however I can't find any for the opposite...

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier
attacked, yes,killed no. but pro lifers consider abortion murder and pro choicers murderers.

Not all pro-lifers are religious
Not all pro-lifers are pro war.
I am pro-life base on life experience and medical facts.

I will however point out that the bible is very specific when an unborn child becomes an actual person and is when the blood first flows in its veins at week 7 so, technically religious pro-lifers can not argue about an abortion done prior to week 7.

Now on to the question.
Dr.s who preform the abortions are undeniably the most violent due to how abortions are done, especially partial birth abortions which horribly violent.

The majority of pro-choicers and pro-lifers are not violent although I believe there are more manipulative pro-choicers (when it comes to their views on abortion) than there is pro-lifers when it comes to education on abortion.
Over all there is more violent pro-lifers, but they are still a very small percentage and they also get far more coverage than the violent pro-choicers.
People in general do tend to get more violent when it comes to crimes against children, and since pro-lifers believe abortion is a crime against an innocent child , they are going to react as such, and many people feel a crime against a innocent child is far worse than a crime against an adult.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by Ignorance_Defier

 

attacked, yes,killed no. but pro lifers consider abortion murder and pro choicers murderers.

What do you mean??

Doctor stabbed.

news.bbc.co.uk...






Murders of abortion doctors in the USA.


In the U.S., violence directed toward abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

August 21, 1993 Dr. George Patterson, was shot and killed in Mobile, Alabama, but it is uncertain whether his death was the direct result of his profession or rather a robbery.

July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.

May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he served as an usher at his church in Wichita, Kansas.

reply to post by calstorm
I will admit that the idea of partial birth abortions makes me sick to my stomach.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

 

Good article and why are so many abandoned children left unadopted?

Because the system is beyond screwed up. Both the foster care/social services system and adoption system.

In the foster care system more children from happy healthy homes are severed from their families and adopted out than children in need of good homes because the government funding is so screwed up that it is extremely profitable to adopt out wrongly removed children and a financial burden to adopt out kids in need.

With the adoption agencies, the list for parents waiting to adopt a newborn is a mile long most will never get the chance. Many more people who would love to adopt a child never even try because of the cost. Many people would could easily afford to raise a child do not because the high cost of adoption would leave them with out the funds to properly raise a child. So to adopt not only do you have to have the financial ability to raise a child but the financial means to pay for the adoption which again is extremely profitable for the ones arranging the adoption.

Reform these two systems and there would be plenty of loving homes for all most all children.

reply to post by Ignorance_Defier


I meant pro choicers have attacked but not killed pro lifers. good post though, star.

I think the only true way to reveal the answer to your question is a two word answer: cage match.

If we could put together something like Thunderdome, I'm certain it would be a revenue buster on pay-per-view. Heck! I'd chip in or bring some beers to watch.

The greatest challenge would be getting pro-lifters to commit to entering the cage. If they can perform the mental hurdles to enter the cage, they're going to be worth two pro-choicers pound for pound.

Outside of a cage match, its difficult to say. We've got two very separate power centers. Pro-lifers have an enthusiasm to the grave, and fully capable of hefting a 2 by 4 with ease. Then again, the pro-choicers have popular opinion and will likely be victorious in the "court" system via lawyers (who are inherently violent in the former us of a).

I like the cage match idea better. Puts the violence a little more center stage. No one hiding behind a lawyer or a mythos, and just getting into the knitty-gritty of dirt and blood.

Any pro-life/choicers want to volunteer for a Blood of Heroes type of cage-match?

reply to post by sakokrap


that should help quell the violence...

reply to post by abe froman


contrare monfraire! It would do well to put a flame to all that smoldering bitterness and hatred. Nothing like a good cage match to extinguish the fire in the belly.

In my opinion pro-choice because at least 35 million American children were executed with out a trial by jury for crimes they did not commit.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


but does abortion qualify as violence?

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
I am gonna have to go with pro choice............after all, they are either directly or indirectly active in how many murders of innocents a year? Kind of hard to top that.

It depends on whether you classify abortion as murder. Many do not so just because someone who is pro-life considers abortion to be "murder" it doesn't mean that's the end all, be all to it.

Personally, while both can be equally dangerous, it all has to do with how far a person goes with it. Some people are able to respect other people's beliefs and wishes and by doing so, they don't resort to violence but for those narrow-minded people who think that their way is the only way, they expect people to respect what they believe in but refuse to do it for others which causes them to become violent and in turn, hurt or even murder others.

Also, I think pro-life people should be called anti-abortion instead. Pro-life should only be for people who care about ALL life, not just a human's life.

Now is it just me but why do pro-life people seem to care more about the so called life of a fetus yet they seem to not give a damn about when a person who is actually alive being murdered? I never understood that. People who don't need a host to survive who are murdered are innocents as well. Look at Leslie Mahaffy for example. Do you really think she said to Paul Bernardo "Yeah, murder me. That will teach my mom for locking me out of the house for being late!". Of course not! They have no problems rallying around a clinic, scaring people who want to have an abortion for whatever the reason may be yet why aren't they circling around courthouses when murder suspects are on trial?

reply to post by Red_Rose


Rose,

I don't think it take a graduate of Mensa's Masters Acadamy to understand that Acts believes it is murder.... Acts believes its murder, and states that as his/her reason for their answer. Rather than stating that "many do not," may I suggest you speak in the 1st person and go ahead and disagree with Acts.

To me, your comments are as wishy washy as making a statement that the Ephor's of Sparta didn't actually commit rape according to some because some people believe this or that. In such discourse, by merely measuring the distance and speed of some herd, cult, group or such... simply does not make it so.

If you personally have an opinion, then please do get to it.

You raise a great quandry about "pro-life" and "pro capital punishment". I could even add that pro-lifers love the state of Israel, when the state of Israel according to a pro-lifer, has killed more Jews than Hitler. These are wonderful sidebars, but irrelevant to the thread's topic.

Similarly, I am a pro-good-lifer myself. I don't fall into either category herein limited. The thread is a baited with a maligned premise, and if you're going to fall into its trap, at least come out swinging with a passionate stance this way or that.

reply to post by abe froman


www.conservapedia.com...

Abortion is the induced termination of a pregnancy,[1] often causing fetal pain. Abortion is a billion-dollar industry[2][3][4] in the United States[5] and Western Europe except for Ireland, Malta and Poland, where it has been abolished.[6][7][8] Abortion in Poland declined by 99% after communism was overthrown, and women's health has dramatically improved there due to fewer abortions.

If it causes pain it must be painful, murder is painful 99% of the time.

Did you know that everyone who is for abortion has been born?? Just like you.

.

I think the pro-lifers are more dangerous. Especially if abortion were outlawed.

Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million

World population: 6,874,078,491

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
Well I think the terms should be named "pro-abortion", "anti-abortion".

...pro-choice is aptly named... pro-abortion isnt correct because not everyone thats pro-choice would have an abortion themselves... they simply believe its a woman's right to choose and no one else's biz...

...pro-life is an oxymoron for that group - so, i agree that anti-abortion would be accurate and i use it often but anti-choice is also appropriate...

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
The reason being that those "pro life" people actually aren't on other issues. They support the death penalty and in favor of guns (which cause harm or death).

...while thats true in many cases - its also true that many pro-choice people support the death penalty and minimal gun control laws...

...the reason why i believe pro-life is an oxymoron and a totally inaccurate "name" for that group is that the majority of them are NOT the least bit pro-life... they are pro (1) sticking their nose in everyone else's personal biz, (2) forcing their religion on people, (3) being in denial of the genocide their ancestors participated in here and elsewhere - and - (4) they have no problem sending our sons and daughters to wars to kill and be killed for bs premises...

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
I can find several sources that would say "pro lifers" have violently attacked and killed people; however I can't find any for the opposite...

...i wouldnt be surprised if some pro-choice people have slipped over the edge... i wouldnt condone that behavior but they're human too, so its bound to happen...

...on the other side of the coin, when one of the radical anti-choicers murders someone, they're considered a hero by their peers... that whack-job that murdered a doctor and was put on death row (in florida, i think) was considered a martyr...

reply to post by ACTS 2:38
every one who is for or against abortion has been born, and abortion seems to lower crime rates as evidenced by the decline in crime in the late 80's-early 90's when a new criminal would be growing up but didn't exist because of roe v. wade. The one NEW crime being commited was the murder of doctors.

reply to post by abe froman

as one who has walked on both sides of this fence, pro-life folks take the gold in this comparison.
IMHO, the pro-life movement is a complete abomination of it's own title.

at least when one stands pro-choice, there always remains ... a choice.
not all choose abortion but it sure is nice to have the option provided in a safe, clean, sterile environment.

reading your comment ...

and abortion seems to lower crime rates as evidenced by the decline in crime in the late 80's-early 90's when a new criminal would be growing up but didn't exist because of roe v. wade. The one NEW crime being commited was the murder of doctors.

leads me to think you have no clue about what you speak.

first, Roe vs Wade occurred in the 70s but you talk like abortion began then too but you'd be seriously mistaken.
Yes, statistics can show otherwise (stats can be manipulated to show any result chosen) but do try to remember, they didn't keep stats of alllll the babies aborted in alleys, private homes, in less than clean environments or performed by less than savory characters.
i'm not saying that i endorse abortions, i don't ... but, i do value the choice.

IF you believe RvW effected crime, you're really reaching there ... surely you realize these so-called "criminals" would mostly be minors, right? (RvW / 73 - 83 = 10yrs old) so, are you referencing adult or juvenile statistics?

besides, how do you figure less persons (increased abortions) equates to more crime anyway?

and, one of the newest crimes was killing doctors but you forgot some like, bombing facilities, killing opposing protestors, killing family of abortion doctors (presumed), threatening education facilities which teach abortion techniques and you might want to consider the uptick in parental attacks from dissenting opinion/ideologies.

but then again, i'm guessing you never had to breach a protest line or change an appointment because your "fertility facility of choice" was no longer in existence.
And, let's not forget the numerous patients of a bombed clinic who were not obtaining abortions but lost their pre-natal, pre-inseminate processes or in some cases, more unwanted pregnancies resulted due to the interruption of preventative (birth control) care. so, are they just "collateral damage" ???

see, i do appreciate the myopic view of most anti-abortionists as i do agree with less abortions ... but not via mandate, rather personal choice.
i consider myself to be pro-choice (yet i will always offer alternative options to abortion) but ultimately,
1) it's not MY decision to make and
2) everyone deserves proper care for such a procedure.

i would never be so foolish to think a law can, would or could PREVENT abortions, the only thing a law will accomplish is more dangerous abortions for those who seek them.