New study: US wars to cost $6 trillion

New study: US wars to cost $6 trillion

presstv.com

A new study on the long-term costs of the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq doubles initial estimates, suggesting the revised six-trillion-dollar figure.

(visit the link for the full news article)

While this is happening, approximately 250000 Americans have taken to the streets to protest Obama policies:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b0dfa0e49dd.jpg[/atsimg]

They are angry that money is used for war, while Americans are loosing jobs, and the industries are failing and bailing, failing and bailing.

People are pissed off, the same in Europe, millions have protested in Europe.

Is the collapse of the US empire getting closer and closer?

What are your thoughts on this?

Who are you gonna vote for next? Another Democrat or Republican who will continue the same policies?

What if you choose non of them? What happens?

Thoughts welcome

oz

presstv.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by oozyism


Seeing how it is commonly known that the bureaucrats truly control policy, and those same bureaucrats are bought of by special interest groups that are controlled by the Global Controllers, and that these People have STOLE "trillions" of dollars out of our economy, all the while the 'politicians' being the scapegoat.

I would say its fair to assume that whatever happens, their power structure will stay in place. The Military and Police will stay funded. And they will have their way with the population. History has proven that the population of the US under stress of any kind will acquiesce, and submit.

reply to post by HermitShip


True, but sometimes the least expected happens, that would be interesting to see in the US.

Second line.

Surprise Surprise!

Haven't you realised that governments would rather fight than save their own people?

The time to realise is now.

Explanation: S&F! [btw this thread cleared up some errors in the data i was previously using (OL's data value was only 5% of the real value ...that was massively imprecise! ) and so thanks heap for that ]

So 6 trillion U$D later and still no world peace, curing of world poverty etc... TRAGIC EPIC FAIL!



Curing world poverty alone over the same 8yr period of both wars would of cost a mere and measily 27% of that 6 trillion U$D!

I looked around the internet for figures and they were all over the place so I took the highest at 195 billion U$D per year and added an extra 5 billion U$D to that total and multiplied it by 8yrs which = 1.6 trillion U$D

Help End World Hunger [squidoo.com]

Spend $150 Billion Per Year (by Daphne Eviatar New York Times November 7, 2004) [globalpolicy.org]

To cure poverty, heal the poor. WHO study finds investments in health pay big development dividends. (From Africa Recovery, Vol.16#1, April 2002, page 22) [un.org]

Personal Disclosure: The US has its priorities so freaking wrong... OL is pretty sure that poverty and hunger lead to most of the conflicts!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Sorry to disagree OL, my friend, but while your statistics and thoughts do tug on the heart strings a little, they overlook a simple fact...

It's not the US's place to end hunger and poverty in other nations. As a former Bosnian employee of mine used to say to me when I asked him to clean up the employee locker room or break room.... "Not mine job." It's very in vogue, these days, for folks to point out American corruption. And I won't argue the truth of it, or try to deny that corruption does exist here. But, having said that, pick just about any nation on the planet, study it, and you'll find just as much or more corruption.

Our money is probably being used about as irresponsibly as is possible by our government... But it is our money, our corrupt government, and our problem.

Yes the US needs to clean its own house right now. And we, as a nation, I hope, are headed towards doing so. But we are not the worlds maid or social welfare service. The rest of the worlds nations need to clean their own houses as well.

Sorry, old friend, but I must disagree with your feelings here.

Originally posted by oozyism

Hi Oozy. How are you today?

Originally posted by oozyism

Is the collapse of the US empire getting closer and closer?

No. Not by a longshot. I'd be willing to bet my own personal nest-egg... Not in our lifetimes. Time may be short for the corrupt powers behind the throne. Time may be short for any single political franchise or base. We tend to change those out here, every so often. We gut a parties power and it rebuilds from the ashes.

We are due for such a gutting. This time I think it might actually be both parties that get nailed - but there will be somebody and something to fill in the blanks during that process. America will persist.

Don't let the news confuse you Oozy... The American people have become lazy and apathetic about a lot of things. But we aren't mindless and helpless social invalids. We are a sleeping lion. And when we wake our rage is going to be profound.

Originally posted by oozyism

Who are you gonna vote for next? Another Democrat or Republican who will continue the same policies?
What if you choose non of them? What happens?

"Continuing the same policies" is not the correct way to look at it. Momentum and circumstance make a vast and rapid change in policy unwise, regarding most issues. A new President, or the same President under new pressures, can't just pick up a phone and say "I want all the soldiers home by next Tuesday". It is logistically impossible and would be politically devastating for the region around Afghanistan. In my opinion civil war would probably be the result if we simply abandoned Afghanistan at this point.

Change takes time, caution, and wisdom. It would be a process and not an event.

As for who I'll vote for...

Well, that's something I never discuss. It's personal to me. I will put my vote where I think it will do the most good, when that time comes.

If we, as a nation, opt not to vote... not a single one of us... I honestly don't know what the consequence would be. A more legally educated mind than mine might know though.

But if you are asking what option we have besides the two parties that get all the press? We always have a third or fourth option. They just rarely matter enough to merit that much mention. But there will be choices other than Obama and, I would think possibly Palin.

~Heff



Thoughts welcome

oz

presstv.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Hefficide

Explanation: St*r for you!

Uhm... I agree ... I had nasty feeling this would happen... but I'm glad it did for a plethora of reasons...

1st OL only brought up the US and not my own FAIL of a country because I wanted to stay on topic... But yes you are 100% correct that its not just the US problem... But I do hold the US to a higher account for a couple of reasons...

The US holds a permenant position on the UN Security Council!

CHAPTER V: THE SECURITY COUNCIL
[un.org]

Your current President [Don't visit Australia then Mr. President! ] has this to say on the matter...

I am my brothers keeper!



Way to go..err Big Bro!

Its not your money...its the feds and you OWE IT BACK WITH INTEREST!

Personal Disclosure: FYI....

Charter of the United Nations: Preamble [un.org]

PREAMBLE
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
AND FOR THESE ENDS
to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,
HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS
Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations.

CHAPTER I: PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES [un.org]

Article 1
The Purposes of the United Nations are:
To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.

The is only ONE RACE... its the Human Race!

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org]

PREAMBLE
Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

P.S. I disagree that we disagree! I clearly understand the implication of "all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society," directly means I'm responsible as well!

Originally posted by OmegaLogos

The US holds a permenant position on the UN Security Council!

Yes, OL, we do - as do, as do China, France, Russia, and the UK. And, yes I agree with what I believe you to be asserting... That with this power comes responsibility.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos

I am my brothers keeper!

Way to go..err Big Bro!

Actually OL, while I am not a huge Obama nut, as many are (I patently distrust just about anyone with the words "lawyer" or "politician" on their business cards.. Obama has both) I do agree with everything that Obama said in this particular installment of "Obama reads a teleprompter like nobody else!".

In fact I've been pigeonholed a few times on ATS by people thinking that I contradict myself because I do personally follow the tenets laid out in this speech. An example: I do not have an inherent trust of Islam. BUT, I would give my last drop of blood, literally, to protect the rights of others to practice Islam and to ensure that they may do so with dignity and all the same freedoms I am entitled under the due process of law.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos

Its not your money...its the feds and you OWE IT BACK WITH INTEREST!

Circular logic, to me, here... The Fed is an American creation. Again, it's an "in-house" issue.

PS - I hate the Fed too!

Originally posted by OmegaLogos

The is only ONE RACE... its the Human Race!

Yes OL my friend, truer words cannot be spoken. And, yes, we, as humans, do, I believe, have a responsibility and an interest in caring for one another.

But a responsibility becomes a burden when exercising it becomes an expectation or is taken for granted.

We all bear the responsibility, equally. And I believe that a day could come when we all wake up and realize this most basic of truths - casting aside our physical and political differences, struggling for the common good.

But that day is not here yet and it's not the US's job to force that day upon us. It has to come in its own time and of its own accord.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos


P.S. I disagree that we disagree! I clearly understand the implication of "all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society," directly means I'm responsible as well!

OL, my friend, we don't disagree at all, and to use your own cyber-vernacular:

Explanation: St*r for you!

~Heff