Nazca Lines - Peru

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by mirageofdeceit

 

I think back in 8 AD they still thought the world was flat!

Not everyone did. Aristotle put forth why he thought the world was round, but a couple centuries later around 200 BC Eratosthenes proved it was and determined its size no less.
I first learned that from Carl Sagan on Cosmos, but it is summed up here.users.zoominternet.net...

Good link! Thanks!

Originally posted by artistpoet
The Ancient Peruvians were more concerned with the dark areas of the Milky Way than actual stars and had a method of projecting/reflecting these regions upon their landscape. Say for example they picked out one area that to them looked liked a Lama - They reflected this in their clothing designs - In Native American clothing the patterns actually represent something of their beliefs. Geometry was known by ancient peoples - to create the Nazca lines is a simple use of geometry. A grid reference if you like

Interesting idea, but why an alien (well, not entirely human looking) figure, apparently waving?

The Egyptian hieroglyphs, whilst not 100% representative of the human form, are much closer than this figure in the mountain.

I can't but help return to the point that no-one can see it, either. Nearly everything else is visible, but this is not.

That the Earth was round had always been theory and only proven to be so when Yuri Gagarin saw it was so in 1961

reply to post by artistpoet

I think you should learn about Eratosthenes.

Originally posted by artistpoet
That the Earth was round had always been theory and only proven to be so when Yuri Gagarin saw it was so in 1961

edit on 2-10-2010 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

Uh, traveling into orbit isn't required to prove the Earth is round.

Kind of interesting aside, Eratosthenes paid a man to walk and count out the distance from Alexandria to Syene.

reply to post by mirageofdeceit

Why compare Egyptian culture to South American culture. Why expect their religious concepts to be the same? Why expect their artistic sensibilities to be the same? There are many, many cases of gods in many different forms. Are they all accurate depictions of aliens (which seems to be where you're going with this).

Originally posted by Chamberf=6

Originally posted by artistpoet
That the Earth was round had always been theory and only proven to be so when Yuri Gagarin saw it was so in 1961

edit on 2-10-2010 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

Uh, traveling into orbit isn't required to prove the Earth is round.

You can't prove anything without ultimately observing it. Theory only goes so far, even if it is extremely accurate. You can't tell for sure until you look.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6

Originally posted by artistpoet
That the Earth was round had always been theory and only proven to be so when Yuri Gagarin saw it was so in 1961

edit on 2-10-2010 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

Uh, traveling into orbit isn't required to prove the Earth is round.

Yes it is - the same way quantum physics is a theory as is Darwins theory- theory is speculation based on observations - This does not mean a theory is wrong or right it is a theory.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit

Originally posted by Chamberf=6

Originally posted by artistpoet
That the Earth was round had always been theory and only proven to be so when Yuri Gagarin saw it was so in 1961

edit on 2-10-2010 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

Uh, traveling into orbit isn't required to prove the Earth is round.

You can't prove anything without ultimately observing it. Theory only goes so far, even if it is extremely accurate. You can't tell for sure until you look.

On that I will have to respectfully but completely disagree with you.

eta: Just wondering, how does a blind man know anything at all then?

reply to post by artistpoet

Since you haven't been in orbit, do you believe the Earth is flat?
You should learn about Eratosthenes.
His calculations and methods proved that the Earth is round. There is no other explanation for his work.

reply to post by Chamberf=6


Without side-tracking and getting into arguing semantics, could you cite any example where observation has not been required to prove something categorically? I can't think of anything where we haven't theorized then tested the theory, thus observing...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by artistpoet

 

I think you should learn about Eratosthenes.

Yes old Era thingy ma gick was a theorist you miss the point

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Since you haven't been in orbit, do you believe the Earth is flat?
You should learn about Eratosthenes.
His calculations and methods proved that the Earth is round. There is no other explanation for his work.

edit on 10/2/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Still a theory though - His theory was correct of course unlessYuri Gagarin was a hoax

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


How does one grasp (tactilely) or see (visually) pure logic?

My point is we should not take theory as fact -

Originally posted by artistpoet
My point is we should not take theory as fact -

Yet you and I could see the same exact thing (oh, say like a video of a UFO) and come to two different opinions. We both actually saw something. Does that prove anything?

Our senses are subjective. Our perceptions of the same exact thing--anything at all--can be completely different.

Logic just IS.


eta: sorry OP. Not meaning to continue a derail...

reply to post by Chamberf=6


Yes I agree to disagree so the topic can move forward regarding the Nazca Lines
I have thoughts and ideas I can not prove as there is no scientific framework for such thoughts.
So yes even logic is a personal perspective

The Nazca lines were created as cultural landmarks that reflected the local population's belief systems and society. Pretty much the same reason any religious landmark has been built across the world.

The difference with the Nazca lines is how subsequent people have re-interpreted them through their own cultural influences. For instance, in the early 20th Century, the Nazca lines were assumed to be earthly reflections of Nazcan constellations. Maria Reiche was one of the major researchers of Nazca and held to that concept for most of her life. As Von Daniken's book came out, people shifted their perceptions and imagined they were calling cards to ancient astronauts.

The more widely-held and current understanding is the lines are pictograms writ large across the mountain landscape. They are no longer considered to represent anything from the skies...constellations, aliens etc. Instead they are considered to represent the pantheon of spirits, protectors and gods who the Nazcans believed controlled weather, fertility and food.

This idea is certainly probable as it mirrors the same activities and concepts of other early societies. Far Eastern domestic shrines or Egyptian temples to their numerous gods...

The pictograms have been found on pottery sherds and carved into stones across parts of South America. Similar lines in the tundra have been found in Bolivia too.

Imagine an early society holding to the belief that gods and spirits were controlling everything behind the scenes. Now consider that concepts of gods have actually evolved over the millennia. In the Nazcan's society, success was because the gods favoured them and illness, failed crops etc was due to angry gods and displeased spirits. By representing the figures across the landscape it was hoped to gain favour with the gods. Offerings could be made to these gods in the hope of bestowing good crops, rains etc. The Western harvest festival is an echo of the same pre-Christian notions of giving food to the harvest gods and water to the water gods.

Water was a paramount concern in this desert land with some of the pictograms crossing irrigation ditches. Even today, people make offerings of sea shells or stones from rivers to the gods in the hopes of rain.

In this light, the Nazca lines are physical manifestations of internal and societal concepts. They have different guises, but in general can be seen across the world going back into dim history. Sure, maybe it's aliens? On the other hand, which explanation is more likely and has supporting evidence?

reply to post by Kandinsky


I agree with your well written and researched post - what you say makes perfect sense.

I'm not saying they didn't get their ideas from real aliens.. but every story has an origin really, it's human nature to question how and why we are .. and it's also a common theme to look to the sky .. seeing the stars, the sun, the moon.. it stands to reason that simply looking up to the sky is almost a paranormal experience to ancient people ..

I often hear in tv specials, or read online how people marvel at the idea that these ancient group would make these lines that could only be seen from there.. Why?? surely for aliens... well no I don't think it's quite like that ... from the beginning we've always marveled at the heavens .. so it makes perfect sense to me that they would do something like that.

It's happened since our earliest recorded history.. some might say that is proof that aliens existed, but I say from the realist point of view that it, more than anything, shows simply the marvel that all cultures have had when looking into the vast sky..

With all of that said.. I'm not suggesting that they weren't influenced by aliens.. just that it doesn't mean they were either.. my view on those topics is that while interesting, until we have some new evidence discovered, it's a history lesson more than a fringe topic to me.