WW2 - Time for the real Facts and the real Answers... are you ready!

reply to post by airspoon


The nation of Israel may have been created single-handedly by the rothschild family doing back-room deals with england/usa while backstabbing germany in the process but since they controlled the bank of england and many other european central banks does it not simplify their task?

My friend I believe the crappy rabbit hole goes much deeper than zionism. Zionism is nothing more than people of jewish heritage, after being exiled from israel/palestine by the romans about two millenia earlier, reclaiming what they believed was theirs all along and finding the means to make their dream a reality. An incredibly complex agenda/situation no doubt but the illuminatti is what people should be researching.

Originally posted by theAymen

Capitalism and Communism are just different sides of the same jewish coin which Hitler always knew. Hitler liked "industrial capitalism" but despised "interest capitalism" so that threatened the international jewish money controllers who constructed the British, USSR and USA empires.

Yes both capitalism and communism cannot work because both are extreme eco-political ideologies but its not "the same jewish coin", its "the same illuminati coin". By allowing the world to place all the blame on jews the illuminatti has found a convienent scapegoat. As they say zionism is the last pillar of deceit before you start unraveling truth.

Money is control, so if you can issue currency you are master of everyone's destiny. Everyone has to BORROW from you and PAY INTEREST for every dollar/euro/yen/...issued. Hence politicians do as they are told and the voters get conned out! Simple?

As for hitler being a socialist, I think he certainly was. Socialism has NOTHING to do with communism as Lenin and Marx would have us believe. Its actually economic centrism where government runs strategic industries and allows(but regulates) private/corporate endeavors. Why should airlines-railroads-telephone-electricity-sewage-healthcare-schools-prisons-universities-etc be private IF THEY ARE NECESSARY SERVICES that benefit 100% of any given national population?

Private central banking is the illuminatti tool of choice and hitler may have known. Socialism has always been a dirty, misconstrued word and I will bet my last dollar its no coincidence. By the way, Marx and Lenin were of jewish heritage?

Originally posted by theAymen
mate thats the official story...my point is..how did these battles take place under the watch of the US and other S.american countries.

The battles took place in international waters. How was "being under the watch of american countries" supposed to stop them?

so the british navy fought and sunk german ships alone...i dont think so..

What do you know about the power of the Royal Navy during the second World War? They had several centuries of practice in sinking the warships of other nations. They got quite good at it. Why should you imagine that it was so difficult?
In the particular case of the Graf Spee, it was sunk by its own crew in the middle of the estuary, in full view of many thousands of observers.

gamble by the germans...my question is why?

Food. They knew the British Isles could not live without imported food. Stop the food, starve the British, win the war. Perfectly logical, and nearly worked. Please do try to learn a few facts about history before trying to build theories about it. If you really want to learn, try listening to some of the answers people are giving you.

reply to post by DISRAELI


they were tracked through international, waters but River Plate is not in international waters.

also those ships were being guarded by four major battle ships...i understand your point..its the standard concensus. but this was a major battle one of which that sparked ww2.

my own personal opinion is that the british were getting supplies for the war NOT FOOD.

but the weird thing is...those ships were on the way TO S.America.. im sure the germans thought they had somehing on board that couldnt get to america...what?

this along with the hindenburg makes me think the americans were involved earlier than thought

Originally posted by theAymen
they were tracked through international, waters but River Plate is not in international waters.

All the fighting took place in international waters.
You need to appreciate a) that the Plate is a very wide estuary stretching between two different countries and b) naval battles are normally named after the nearest landmark, and the location needn't be taken excessively literally. No naval ships were fighting in the territory of any other country. When the German ship went into the neutral waters of Uruguay, the Royal Navy was very careful not to pursue her. As I said, the actual sinking was a scuttling by her own crew.

.

.i understand your point..its the standard concensus. but this was a major battle one of which that sparked ww2.

World War 2 had already started at that point. Being a major battle doesn't actually alter the facts of the case.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Great.. so you think theres nothing there...cool.

but to allow ships to constantly dock in the uk.. and to travel that far..and attack ships on way to the americas?? .there must be something more to it.

in my opinoin the US was sending supplys for war... even soldiers...a few of the best...to train in scotland with the commandos/sas long before 1941.....just my opinion

Originally posted by theAymen
but to allow ships to constantly dock in the uk.. and to travel that far..and attack ships on way to the americas?? .there must be something more to it.

Can you specify the ships that were attacked "on the way to the americas"? Give some names, places of sinking?
I'm just looking in a history about the actual movements of the Graf Spee before the battle. On September 30th, it sank a British liner in the South Atlantic. Then it moved over to the Cape of Good Hope area and began sinking British ships on their way back to the UK from India and the Far East. On November 15th, it sank a British tanker (oil, presumably) in the Mozambique channel, between Madagascar and the African mainland. Then it moved back in the direction of the Plate, where it would be able to attack the British ships leaving those waters. Carrying beef, mainly, I suspect. Have you any idea of the historic importance of Argentinian beef in the British food supply?
Having said which, the captain would not necessarily be concerned about the specific cargoes. For one thing, every cargo, whatever it was, would be something the British wanted. For another, every British ship sunk, whatever it carried, meant one British ship fewer to carry future cargoes, so that was a gain in itself.
Where do you get the idea that the Germans were "allowing ships to dock in the UK"? Not if they could help it. They were sinking British ships wherever they could get at them. Including home waters, but in home waters there was more air cover from the British mainland.
And if they wanted to stop things reaching the US, they were in the wrong ocean. South America is miles away.

reply to post by DISRAELI


you know what...thanks for that.

i never once thought to look at the movements of thr graf spee...wow it traveled vast distances...that was modern warefare at its finest...im shocked at the amount it single handedly accomplished even though it was destroyed early on.... it must of had airsupport or subs??... dunno...but the germans were a serious foe..im more impressed than anything lol.

it seems the germans were more concerend with the british trade route from africa to america.

Originally posted by theAymen
it seems the germans were more concerend with the british trade route from africa to america.

I think it was more a case of switching between the India/East Indies-Britain trade route (which had to go round Africa because most of the Med. was dangerous) and the Argentina-Britain trade route.
It was hitting vulnerable targets, because the British could not possibly guard all the places it might go to.

reply to post by DISRAELI


but dont you think it was a gamble for them to attack that far away without support...do you think the captain of the graf spree knew that there were battleships in the area..if so why would he gamble and attack by himself.

the germans risked and lost that ship, i think on purpose.."means to an end"
i think they attcaked due to the intelligence...what was that intelligence.

sorry on another point are you isreali...im fascinated


Pharaoh

Originally posted by theAymen
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

but dont you think it was a gamble for them to attack that far away without support...do you think the captain of the graf spree knew that there were battleships in the area..if so why would he gamble and attack by himself.

This ship was one of a small group nicknamed "pocket-battleships". They were deliberately designed to be more powerful than other ships of a similar size. No single British cruiser could match them. So the exercise was not as much a gamble as it looks, because the British would have to get a group of ships together in order to outgun them. The oceans are very wide. If the British ships are in groups, the Graf Spee can slip between the groups. Scattered ships might have a better chance of finding her, but no chance of outgunning her when found.

And the gamble had to be taken, because the ships were designed and built for that purpose. The alternative was to keep them useless in harbour. That was what they were for. That's what happens in war. Once you fire off the cannon shell, you've lost the cannon shell, but there's no point in hoarding them. The shells are there to be used.

No, I'm not Israeli. I am a Conservative. So I named myself after a Conservative Prime Minister. I could have chosen Peel, Salisbury, Bonar Law, Churchill, Heath, or Thatcher. Instead, I chose Disraeli.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


The political climate in America, is far different than the climate in England or Great Britain, to include the mechanics of government and the mechanics of our monetary systems, especially back at the turn of the 20th century. I'm not going to get into the mechanics of Zionism either, as that is not what this thread is about. Instead, I was merely pointing out why the Germans distrusted and turned on the Jews. Whether they were right in their convictions is something else entirely and irrelevant to the point, as was pointed out in my posts.


--airspoon



***By the way, I love your avatar.***

reply to post by airspoon


Thank you very much !

Connecting the dots is easy occasionally.

I was already aware of a Jewish influence in our history, and actually believed this was true already...
Your dots make me even more convinced.

Thanks

reply to post by theAymen


There are no Pentagon Papers to expose the "real Facts and the real Answers" for WWII.
PBS TV just aired an the Ellsberg Story.
Interesting the Supreme Court said Dan did right to expose government lies if
there was no harm to the government.
Since it was basically a historical document there was no threat apparently.
The closest I found was the Lyne 'Pentagon Aliens" that dealt with unknown forces
attributed to Tesla that some how arrived into materialization in Germany
and the work of Tesla is like some Dead sea Scrolls that are still buried.
It would be nice to have a Cosmic Generator or two as what harm could that due
to America.

The Svastika is an ancient symbol used in hindu cultures to represent the Sun and the dynamics of Creation. By revolving Svastika spread life over the Earth.

The Nazis used that symbol BUT the turned it around. They turned the Svastika's orientation and by doing so the meaning was exactly the opposite: Destruction of all Life on Earth (to be refounded under "The 1000 years Reich" system).

reply to post by deathmetalofcourse


deep...thanks mate it makes sense!

"1000" yr reich wat??...they got a long term plan...you think it is stll going on......the 4th reich....deep

Here is a thread about wanting answers about saucers from Germany
during WWII.

ATS search for answers on Germany saucers.

Unfortunately the saucers were made up replies to information requests.

Yet there persists the question of technology transfer in 1945 operation paperclip
that were more than rockets and jets transferred.
Also locked up since 1943 are the works of Tesla that some think due to intelligence
forces on both sides made during the deal for the end of the war science transfers.

Originally posted by theAymen


Firstly there was a “fifty year” wait for the public to get rights to access. Now look... certain records of ww2 have been given a 2nd, 50 year right to access rule...the first time ever. That means we have to wait untill around 2020 to really find out about ww2.

This is not uniformely true. 90% of the documents relating to WW2 in all countries have no such clauses.

Then again, secrecy is a fact that a historian has to deal with. There is still classified material from the American Civil War - and surely there are older examples. Keeping documents locked up is the norm, not an exception in historical inquiries and therefore is not indicative of a conspiracy per se.




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1) Who was Hitler financed by?..

This question is basically answered - at least it is one of the questions concerning the history of the Second World War that is best documented and has been gone over several times. That you ask this question in this manner seems to point to the fact that you aren't familiar with historiography on the subject.

To make it simple: The largest contributions in the 20's came from the partys own members or from associated völkisch groups. In the second phase, starting with the NSDAP's and Völkisch joint fight against the Young plan you have substantial contributions from the German industry. Research has shown that these two sources make up the bulk of Nazi finance - the other well-known stories, such as American Corporations, seem marginal when compared on the basis of monetary input.

The only other winners from ww2 were America AshkeNAZI Jews (multi- millionaires) and isreal (founded due to ww2).

There's lots of winners in WW2. Argentina? Saudi Arabia? Hello?

And also - did you just write that ALL Ashkenazi Jews are millionaires? At least now I am getting the vile gist of your whole post.

2)Now... we all know that the Americans didn’t join the war until later... or so we thought!

First - as other posters have pointed out - you got the story wrong.

Second, the important point is not when actual combat started but when the US gov decided to take sides in the war. That decision was made by electing Roosevelt, and by 1938 even the public could have known that America was to join the war (since they retooled their economy to a war-economy). To quote Adam Tooze (from memory) " By 1938 it was clear that America would join the fight. The question wheter the mechanic output of the US war economy was to be handled by Brits or by Americans seems marginal in this context".

3) The UFOS over Washington...were they to show the world the new improved flying saucer technology taken from germany (read above link)...it was just a few years arfter ww2..1952 –P. Truman

That's indeed an interesting speculation - but it's just that. There's no proof of Nazi Saucers in an esoteric sense, meaning that while there is evidence for disc-designs there's no evidence of application of anything else than conventional propulsion systems attached to them (by the Nazis)

4) What was the Hindenburg really capable of.

Using Zepellins as Bombers had become strategically obsolete by the Winter of 1914.

5) what are we currently using Today...that is german from ww2.

Epsitemically, it is almost impossible to know. But for startes - how about any and all data about medical aviation research?

6) Why did Hitler want to remove/destroy jews and how... when quite frankly he looked more jewish than Aryan? (look below) would he of passed his own tests?

The question is conceptually unanswerable as it implies that there are ultimate psycholopgical causes - something that hasn't been demonstrated yet. He did not look more jewish than Aryan - saying so only reveals your clumsy understanding of Nazi Racial Ideology. Yes, in some ways being blond and having blue eyes qualified you as an "Aryan" - but not having them did not disqualify you. I would advise you to read some research about the Nazis Racial thinking, it's more than just having blue eyes.

The jews built his weapons,(incl. The two atomic bombs the US used in japan).

This is absolute BS - Read "HItlers Gift" to even get a prelimenary understanding of the issue. "Jewish" soldiers were not "full blooded Jews", you're confusing things here. And there's simply no evidence of any significant "jewish" presence at the Resaerch Arm of the Wehrmacht or private industry. In fact it is conceptually impossible - as Jews were not allowed to hold such positions (military) or assets (industry).

Basically i dont think he would of past his own tests...

That's only because you think of "Aryan" as blue eyed /blond - which is not the whole truth when it comes to the Volksgemeinschaft the Nazis envisioned.

7) Was the swastika the Back star?.... is the black hole we are led to believe exists actually a black star? Is the black star cyrius A.?

Uhm. You're starting to jump the shark IMHO. But interesting nonetheless.

8) Where are the germans which were captured (scientists, hierarchy) now living?...i noticed Venezuela could be a candidate.
People have constantly appeared who were supposed to be dead, especially those that have been awarded the iron cross. ie Joseph Mengele

Ask the Georgetown set as they are the only ones who really know. Neither the US gov, nor anyone else besides them has ever gotten the whole picture on all exfiltration projects. But yes, South America is the best guess when it comes to Nazis that survived and didn't end up at the Pentagon or the Soviet Union. Syria and Egypt are other locations where significant clusters turned up after the war - pretty funny hu - you know, the people responsible for the Holocaust arming and training Israel's next door neighbours...?

Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin

nice mate thank you very much for that, your deep...but calm down a bit

This is not uniformely true. 90% of the documents relating to WW2 in all countries have no such clauses.

haa yes but im only concerned with the winners..US.@ UK...their info would probably be mind blowing lol
ie.Public records act 1967
but as i said, information held by private firms would be more interesting...!


.

That you ask this question in this manner seems to point to the fact that you aren't familiar with historiography on the subject.

wait...i dont care about who paid for him to come to power..or how much it cost for the nazi`s to control germany (which would be a substantial amount). im talking about war...about non stop aggressive war for 6 years..the preperation,and the weapons...oh the weapons...luftwaffe fleets built in weeks & as often as needed...panzer regiments...THIS WAR COST THE GERMANS UNTOLD MILLIONS...who pay`d for it...especially after 1941 when he was literally fighting the world??

There's lots of winners in WW2. Argentina? Saudi Arabia? Hello?

argentina??
yea but argentina and saudi arabia havnt used ww2 as a platform for....(...-...)

And also - did you just write that ALL Ashkenazi Jews are millionaires? At least now I am getting the vile gist of your whole post.

im not being vile...but certain german jews seemed to of got better off...isnt my fault that they were crap at hiding it.

2)Now... we all know that the Americans didn’t join the war until later... or so we thought!

First - as other posters have pointed out - you got the story wrong.

maybe i wrote that hastily..but i was interested on why the germans would sacrifice a good ship for those cargo ships, when they were under protection...based in what intelligence....why not attack in the atlantic...how ever you see it river plate is dodgy

That's indeed an interesting speculation - but it's just that. There's no proof of Nazi Saucers in an esoteric sense, meaning that while there is evidence for disc-designs there's no evidence of application of anything else than conventional propulsion systems attached to them (by the Nazis)

theres no proof that your human...but ill make an educated guess...

Using Zepellins as Bombers had become strategically obsolete by the Winter of 1914.

thats why the americans, would of been idiots, if they let it happen!

i believe the two a-bombs you dropped on japan...were german...and they were going to use zepplins to deliver them...they were dummy runs disguised as passenger craft...probably finalising the time and route it took.

at least i think certain americans thought that at the time...

...hold on u rekon those cargo ships were carrying the Abomb ? lol

Epsitemically, it is almost impossible to know. But for startes - how about any and all data about medical aviation research?

and what the hell is that? lol

Yes, in some ways being blond and having blue eyes qualified you as an "Aryan" - but not having them did not disqualify you. I would advise you to read some research about the Nazis Racial thinking, it's more than just having blue eyes.

yes, the fuhrer qualified certain people...but these tests made sure he got all jews...if he was on the street...he would of been sent to a gchamber...unless he was pardoned.

This is absolute BS - Read "HItlers Gift" to even get a prelimenary understanding of the issue. "Jewish" soldiers were not "full blooded Jews", you're confusing things here. And there's simply no evidence of any significant "jewish" presence at the Resaerch Arm of the Wehrmacht or private industry. In fact it is conceptually impossible - as Jews were not allowed to hold such positions (military) or assets (industry).

the jews built the infrastucture of germany...also every super power ever...egypt,spain, and now the US...it not an acusation...just something iv noticed

you know, the people responsible for the Holocaust arming and training Israel's next dooor neighbours

what??? training isreals neighboours lololgaagagaaaahhhaaa
the only significant investment and traing was GIVEN to isreal....the russians hepled egypt.

germans went to egypt... as during their stay there during the war...they liked it.

but thanx u made clear n valid points

Originally posted by theAymen

but as i said, information held by private firms would be more interesting...!

True. But there's tons out already. GM, and Standard come to mind. While Ford didn't open its archives their activities are well known by now.

All I'm saying is this is an area that is so well documented by now that there's hardly any "big" questions open anymore. At least no one can think of such questions at the time.

I just found it funny that you chose the one aspect that is best documented as an example for where an opening of archives would enlighten us more.

THIS WAR COST THE GERMANS UNTOLD MILLIONS...who pay`d for it...especially after 1941 when he was literally fighting the world??

Pretty easy: The German people. In a few words the story goes like this: A centrally planned albeit private wannabe autarchic community scraped up any and all corporate and private profits and redirected them towards the war economy. There was no substantial inflow of foreign capital into Nazi Germany - it was sinking and approaching 0 ever since HItler came to power and started autarchistic policies.

The importance of foreign help for Hitler - if indeed you want to call it so, which I wouldn't - was not financial but more in the ressource and patent sector - as with standard oil.

As I say this is really no secret and pretty well understood within historiagraphy. There's simply no basis to assume that foreign capital streams were significant for the german war economy - individual methods like floating an international loan were exhausted and unsuccesful by 1938/39 and therefore are marginal for the Nazi War Economy.

argentina??
yea but argentina and saudi arabia havnt used ww2 as a platform for.

Argentina... as in: scoring an atomic-bomb project and selling it to the Israelis, I call that being on the winner side of the deal. also scoring billions in flight capital and getting a hold of some of the best educated engineers of a whole generation etc... They did well by the war. That's the nature of war. There's winners and losers, sometimes both in one entitiy.

The criteria is not who used ww2 as a platform. Your original point was that Israel was the only nation to profit from ww2 besides The US, I tried to show you that other nations (or their ruling classes) profited at least as much too.

im not being vile...but certain german jews seemed to of got better off...isnt my fault that they were crap at hiding it.

While the extensive networking and sense of over-achievish outlook that the German Jews held as a community is obvious from looking at statistics, to say that they were generally rich or even well-to-doers is to be ignorant of history.

Simply being a Jew did not secure you a life of leisure. Only work did; and that counts for Christian Germans just as much as it did for Germans of Jewish descent.

theres no proof that your human...but ill make an educated guess...

Proving my existence has been convincingly done and can be repeated.

I have been following the question of Nazi UFO's ever since I was a teen and I feel qualified to state that this is not the case regarding Nazi UFO's. It's all speculation, third-hand knowledge. No material evidence, not even circumstancial evidence that would be meaningful. Always love to debate this point.

i believe the two a-bombs you dropped on japan...were german...and they were going to use zepplins to deliver them...they were dummy runs disguised as passenger craft...probably finalising the time and route it took.

Maybe you should start by reading basic accounts about the Hindenburg - this is a very absurd scenario for reasons of documentation alone.

Delivering a nuclear bomb by Zeppelin is a suicide mission. Why depend on Zeppelins when the Germans actually were in possession of the Amerikabomber? (Only slight modification would have been needed)

Maybe the trigger in one of the bombs was of german design, granted - although that's just one of many possibilities. That's a far cry from developing an atomic bomb - there's tons of circumstancial reasons that make the Germans actually developing one very improbable. The actual sophistication of Heisenbergs views and Haigerlochs capabilities being the main one.

...hold on u rekon those cargo ships were carrying the Abomb ?

Yeah. But then, the Atomic Bomb did only become conceptually possible in February 1939.... While speculation is a good thing, it has its limits: There's simply no way that anyone built an atomic bomb in 1939 unless the whole history of physics is a carefully crafted hoax perpetuated by a league of conspirators numbering in the hundreds of millions. I'll prefer the conventional history for most parts - it took years and billions and billions of dollars plus the creme de la creme of global science to bring the theory into practice.

Epsitemically, it is almost impossible to know. But for startes - how about any and all data about medical aviation research?

and what the hell is that? lol --- Just one example of an area where we do know that the US milked Nazi-Concentration-Camp knowledge,

yes, the fuhrer qualified certain people...but these tests made sure he got all jews...if he was on the street...he would of been sent to a gchamber...

That's simply not true. Looks did not determine Germanness, only Heritage did. That was my whole point. The color of hair/eyes - while being important for Nazis in Hollywood movies - was not important to nazis at all, at least not in practice.

the jews built the infrastucture of germany

Absolute Nonsense. Try to prove that. I know tons of non-jews that built on th infrastructure too.

what??? training isreals neighboours lololgaagagaaaahhhaaa
the only significant investment and traing was GIVEN to isreal....the russians hepled egypt.

If you knew anything about Nazism post-1945 you would know that Egypt and Syria invited and provided jobs for many Nazis implicated in the Holocaust. This is basic history - even if it doesn't fit your world view.

No known Nazis (except Argentinian Fascists) ever supported Israel in the direct and material way that they supported Syria and Egypt.

germans went to egypt... as during their stay there during the war...they liked it.

Needless to say the Germans never made significant inroads into Egypt, so no German soldier was in Egypt in WW2 (well, at the fringes of it, of course). But not in the major cities,

So nominally the "Egyptians" where on the British side.

Don't know how you got that idea.

but thanx u made clear n valid points

edit on 7-10-2010 by theAymen because: (no reason given)

Thank you too for the interesting thread. Don't intepret me as offensive; I just have a dry writing style. LOL. No offense meant.