Dr. Hagar says women suffering from PMS should pray and read the Bible for relief

Originally posted by The Last Patriot
It's certainly not doing the stereotype of "that time of the month" any justice.

Still no comment, Last Patriot? Well, now that I have read some of your other posts, I better understand your attitude toward women. And I can understand this outlandish and backwards remark of yours.

Post Number: 624477

[edit on 27-6-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

DontTreadOnMe,

ha, ha, ha, I see your point on Lastpariot, don't worry lets pray all to make him get the worst PMS in the history of women, better yet, lets give him all the PMS of all the women in ATS. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better yet, when male menopause and/or mid-life crisis hits him, may no one understand, empathize or sympathize with him.

Or, how about some night sweats, eh, Marge?
See how ceery he is in the morning!

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Actually, PMS is pretty much only in technologically advanced societies.
Some of it has to do with the hormone-laced food we eat. The high-stress lives we lead. And the chemicals we ingest.
The is far less PMS and less sever menoapsual symptoms in third world countries. Also, menopause there is not so much treated as a disease, but a natural phase.

I think I disagree with some of this, specifically the PMS only in technologically advanced societies.

You see, in many societies of the world, a menstruating woman is considered to be in a "polluted" condition. She is sent off to a special hut or house to stay in while she is having her period and is let out only after it's finished. And while I agree to some degree on diet, I'd also point out that poor nutrition in the non-industrialized countries leads to dismenorrhea and that certain gyneocological problems (like endometriosis) lead to an early death for the woman (loss of blood, susceptibility to other diseases.) Hence, it only appears that there is a lower incidence.

(I will admit that exercise is supposed to help with PMS. Never actually got PMS, so I can't comment. It was supposed to help with cramps -- I got those in spades, but exercise never seemed to help.)

Societies also differ in how they treat post-menopausal/widowed women. Primitive societies are not always kind or empowering to them -- in some cases they are made to be literal slaves in another's household, and in other cases they were driven off to die.

Exercise never helped me either, as a young girl I was treated for severe menstrual cramps, I was 13, ended in emergency room several times, a doctor treated me with valium, and told my mother that it the pains will go away when I get married, and the valium was because I was to active and needed to relax, What a mentality!

Actually the pain when away after I got married but because I started the birth control pills.

Our society does not approach women issues very well even after my initial treatment with valium for menstrual cramps I fee that I have been misunderstood by doctors.

Some ancient societies respected womens wisdom and treated them with respect as they got older. And some ancient societies venerated the first cycle in a girl because it was view as the bigining of fertility and it was very important for the well being of the tribes.

About night sweets I has been having them since my late 20s,
A friend told me that is because I dreak to much coffee.

[edit on 28-6-2004 by marg6043]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by The Last Patriot
So please, stop the overeacting. It's certainly not doing the stereotype of "that time of the month" any justice.

And remarks like that are just to kind of thing men think they can get away with saying when women have opinions. What nerve you have. It blows my mind that allegedly intelligent creatures can belittle women by saying we are at the mercy of our hormones like that.

Stereotype=Unfair Generalization

"It's certainly not doing the stereotype of 'that time of the month' any justice."
The above clearly states that I believe the stereotype(there's that word again) of a woman being opinionated the result of her menstrual cycle to be wrong. I have never agreed with it. I am against all stereotypes and generalizations, including those that state that I must be 1.Male, and 2.a misogynist for making the above statement. If you missunderstood this, then I must apologize. I should have been clearer.

The Last Patriot,

We were just making a joke, thanks for the appology but it was just a joke.

Originally posted by marg6043
The promise keepers group a men religious organization is allowed to go around this country campaigning against women, telling man to take back their rightful positions and bring back women to the kitchen. Because they to use a much-quoted biblical passage: "Wives submit to your husbands, as to the Lord." In addition to condemning gender equity and reproductive rights, leaders of the Promise Keepers denounce homosexuality.

All this religious groups and organizations are view as good by our president.

Incredible.

This is the furthest thing from the truth promise keepers isn't on a campaign against women in fact it's committed to building strong marriages and families through love, protection and biblical values. They also teach that husbands should love and honor their wives above themselves as stated in Ephesians 5:



25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[2] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[3] 32This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Seven Promises of a Promise Keeper

I belong to promise keepers and from what I've seen this organization teaches nothing but love and respect for your wife and family. My wife can't wait for me to go to their conferences each year I come back a much better person.




[edit on 28-6-2004 by KillerD]

The Promise Keepers' pledge this year is to "renew the essence of masculinity" through a three-year campaign called "Real Men Matter." The 2004 conference season is based on the book "Uprising - A Revolution of the Soul," by Erwin McManus, which asks men to go on a quest for honor, on a mission to prepare for "battle" so that men can "regain" their place in society.

For years, women's rights leaders have warned of the Promise Keepers' dangerous attitudes and political ambitions.

While many participants in Promise Keepers events may have sincere intentions in attempting to become better men, it is vital to understand that it is under this cover that the group's leaders conceal their bigoted political agenda.

www.now.org...

I have been married for 22 years, have two childrens, without the need of groups like yours, religion, religious organizations, the fear of god, burning hell or jesus, yes we have our own believes and the god of our believe it is not use to pursue political, religious or other agendas, I have told my children to take resposibilities for their own actions not god, jesus or the pastor.

If I was you I check better on you group agenda, a try to see more between the lines. Good luck with your mens club, it has not room on womens issues and PMS.



www.promisekeepers.org...

I love the web page
(the revolution of man soul) really against who? women?



[edit on 28-6-2004 by marg6043]

Originally posted by KillerD

Originally posted by marg6043
The promise keepers group a men religious organization is allowed to go around this country campaigning against women, telling man to take back their rightful positions and bring back women to the kitchen. Because they to use a much-quoted biblical passage: "Wives submit to your husbands, as to the Lord." In addition to condemning gender equity and reproductive rights, leaders of the Promise Keepers denounce homosexuality.

All this religious groups and organizations are view as good by our president.

Incredible.

This is the furthest thing from the truth promise keepers isn't on a campaign against women in fact it's committed to building strong marriages and families through love, protection and biblical values.

It's the "biblical values" that a lot of women have problems with -- and, to be honest, research shows that the more strongly someone adheres to Christianity, the more likely they are to divorce.

That said, there are some women (my daughter-in-law) who want that lifestyle, and I absolutely and without question support their intent -- as long as their husband goes along with it (my son does.)

But there are a lot of men and women for whom that model won't work, and in fact, a lot that will get into more difficulties with that model (and I've seen a lot of Christian women who are married to men who don't fit that pattern rail and rage against their spouses.) It does force certain role models on you, whether you are able or capable of handling them.

I'm glad I'm not married to a PromiseKeeper. I was married to that kind of man once, and it was a truly horrible experience. PKs are wonderful for women who want to stay home and be cared for. PKs are poor husbands for women who have a dream to do something other than raise children and keep house. PKs are terrible husbands for scientists and computer engineers. PKs are good for women who believe that there are distinct boundaries between men and women (essentially that social order is maintained if there's a "men's society" and "women's society.) PKs are a terrible match for feminists and working women.

I am glad it works for you and your wife, and it sounds as though you find it a wonderful source of strength and inspiration. But it really only does work for certain personality types.

I am sorry if I was a littler bit to strong on the post reply but, been happily married and having choices of the way I am living is the beauty of the women�s right and freedoms in this country and I want my 20 year daughter to have better than me, when groups like this come around I fee that my rights as a women are on the religious and political agenda and so my daughters and her daughter rights in the future are too.

May be some of this groups had a good motive but as anything in the hand of men it tends to follow hidden agendas and purposes.

That is probably the funniest thing I've ever heard!!!

I will however opt to stick to my chocolate/Chocolate fudge ice cream and midol.

i'd think we'd be better off praying for the downfall of fundamental christianity instead.

Originally posted by earthmagick12
In the book Dr. Hager wrote with his wife, entitled "Stress and the Woman's Body," he suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying.

I suppose it could work for devote Christians, but if I suggest that to KayEm when she has PMS, I'd end up with the Bible stuffed somewhere the sun doesn't shine



[edit on 28-6-2004 by Pisky]

Bush reappoints anti-choice Hager to reproductive health position on FDA.

Just yesterday, June 28, President Bush reappointed W. David Hager - a staunch and active opponent of a woman's right to choose - to a FDA panel that advises on reproductive health drugs. Hager is an avowed opponent of easy access to the morning after pill and to other important methods of birth control.

mail.care2.com...


Wow, this guy is living in the darkages. I know that some people think that petitions don't help. But please make your voice heard.

Originally posted by Byrd


It's the "biblical values" that a lot of women have problems with -- and, to be honest, research shows that the more strongly someone adheres to Christianity, the more likely they are to divorce.

I have been counted in that statistic. There was a time when (at the prodding of my father and mother-in-law, both whom I love very dearly) when I was a total "holy roller". I was so into my Christianity that it nearly consumed me. I was a sunday school teacher, womens group member, bible study member, stay at home mom. I tried desperately to be the perfect Christian wife and mother. Sadly, my husband (who's mother is pentacostal) was not a Christian and this made my life very difficult. In the end, we divorced - not very Christian huh? Since then my father has aged - and not very well, my mother-in-law has passed away and I have become totally dissilusioned with Christianity and have given it up for Deism.

By the way, my husband and I have since re-married and are happier than we have ever been. So for me, Christianity did not help my marraige, it ruined it. I'm so greatful to God (the real God) that we have been able to reconcile and 10 years later are still going strong.

It is sad that this guy has been reappointed. Badkitty I am glad to hear things worked out for you Sorry I have not gotten back to this thread for awhile. My PC has been down. For anyone who has missed this thread, please share your thoughts. I would think like myself and the others who have posted, that this would make you angry too?

Has anyone bothered to check the credibility of the original source? Could it be that the good doctor believes that faith is an important component of medical treatment? You know that there is evidence in the medical literature that the faith of patients has an effect on recovery.

The individual making these claims may be correct, but, in my opinion, his agenda is highly suspect. This doctor's real crime is being a Christian, the only religion the left can�t seem to abide. Surely, we can grant this man the presumption of innocence.

Dr. Hager in his own words:

www-scf.usc.edu...

May I begin by telling you that no one who has written about me or broadcast information about me has ever interviewed me. The information being disseminated is rumor and innuendo. I am pro-life and believe in the sanctity of human life.

I participated in the Citizens Petition to the FDA asking that RU-486 be withdrawn temporarily from the market until further investigation could be done out of my concern for the health and well-being of women and their unborn children. Mifeprex was approved under an Accelerated Approval Process, Subpart H, that has been reserved exclusively for anti-AIDS and anti-cancer drugs and an antihypertensive agent. All medications that are life saving, which mifeprex is not. The FDA always requires one or more than one randomized, controlled trials before approving a drug. There were none for mifeprex (RU-486). The nonrandomized, uncontrolled trials that were done insisted on the woman having an ultrasound scan to locate the pregnancy and insure that it was not outside the uterus (an ectopic pregnancy). The guidelines for use now do not require such a scan and we have reports already of death and morbidity from ruptured ectopic pregnancies since the symptoms of a ruptured ectopic and abortion from mifeprex are the same; abdominal pain and bleeding. The FDA requires that medications that may be used in children and adolescents be studied in those groups before approval (The Pediatric Rule) and this was not done with mifeprex. There have been two seriously infected 15 year olds. Finally, in studies reported to date, among women who fail to abort after receiving mifeprex (and this occurs 5-8% of the time when administered up to 7 weeks gestation) there have been limb deformities and absent limbs. I feel that the drug needs further study. Searle Laboratories, the manufacturer of misoprostol (the second drug taken after mifepristone) has issued a medical alert asking that the drug never be used in pregnant women due to risks of cardiovascular problems. There has been a fatal heart attack in France and a non-fatal one here in a 21 year old.

Regarding contraception, I advise all of my non-married patients that abstinence is the best way to avoid non-marital pregnancy and STDs. If she insists on being sexually active or is already active, I advise the use of birth control pills and condoms as well. I do not believe that standard dose birth control pills are abortifacient, and have never written that. There is a chapter in a book I co-edited, that purports this idea, but it was included in our book to offer an alternative opinion, not because we believed the idea. Since when is it wrong to offer alternative opinions?

Regarding my management and writing about stress-related disorders in women, I have always offered a holistic approach to therapy. I suggest diet/exercise changes, medications as needed, counseling when required, and meditation/prayer. This is very distasteful to NOW and Planned Parenthood.
I hope this helps you and enables you to see how "horrible" I am in the eyes of the organizations you mention as encouraging me not to serve this Administration.

W. David Hager, M.D.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Regarding my management and writing about stress-related disorders in women, I have always offered a holistic approach to therapy. I suggest diet/exercise changes, medications as needed, counseling when required, and meditation/prayer. This is very distasteful to NOW and Planned Parenthood.

Grady - you should know me better than that - of course I checked him out.

Dr. Hager has denied unmarried women birth control in his private practice. Dr. Hager also sees PMS as a stress-related disorder and not a physical one.

Were these his personal beliefs and something he did not institute in his medical practice - I would not have had a problem with him. But because he does, I didn't want him in the FDA. A physician in the FDA must be able to set aside his personal objections or remove himself from consideration. It is evident that he cannot. Your post contained a statement from him that shocked me - now not only is Dr. Hager a poor physician, but he is a liar as well.

I have dumped all my original research on Hager (this thread is several months old) but Snopes still has a page on him. Dr. Hager

How have I missed this thread?

Breaking news, "This just in, spiritual malaise cured by Midol."