Alien topic made me stupid or making me brilliant...not sure

Heya ATSers.


Long ago, I had the view of ET life that there may be advanced civilizations out there and some may be good, some may be bad, some may be neutral...as far as them visiting earth, there is no proof of it, so why speculate...doesn't effect me anyhow.

Fair enough philosophy..if someone asked me about my thoughts on the subject, I could rattle off that real quick and cause no stir..barely even a passing thought really.

I came across some random video on youtube while just poking around. my brother in law and I were discussing theology and he talked about the alien seed theory and the godlike alien overlords...something he thought he simply made up. I wanted to first off prove him wrong about making it up (my opinion, everything has already been thought of and expanded upon...we are in perpetual expansion of some basic thoughts). and so did a halfhearted search for alien stuff...

I remember seeing a few blinky lights in the sky (meh) and then came across something I thought was mindblowing at the time..it was the Billy Meyers story, the clip with the person showing the picture album.

Well, long story short, that sparked my curiousity and in the attempt to figure out if this one thing was complete bull, I came across project camelot, then John Lear, then ATS through his talking about it (damn CIA listening post it is).

Now..when people ask me the question on my belief in aliens visiting earth..that quick original answer is replaced with a storm in my mind of military people disclosing information, documents that may or may not be real, of enigmas spotted on film, of endless barrages of information that becomes gray in the goop of information that is ufology.

the funny thing is, from the outside perspective...what was once a rational looking and thinking person simply saying he is open to the idea but wants to see proof...now they see a tortured brain seeming to barely make sense, potentially unstable in his thinking the way he is trying to give accounts, and ultimately winding up saying pretty much the same answer as the original thought...but far more passionately.

So, I am trying to figure out...is reading everything about this field, from the most rational skeptics to the erm...david icke types...making my senses dull and my mind atrophy from endless speculation and potential junk information, or am I becoming brilliant from the plethora of information my brain has to process to give an answer...

but more to the point...how does the subject, all the evidence yet the lacking of proof effect you and your thinking on the subject...do you find the simple question by another a simple nearly unthinking answer, or does your brain become triggered in a million different thoughts all at once?

I think that if anything, ETs need to either show up or be completely disproven before my mind is at rest now. I can see how a person without the ability to seperate their intellectual curiousity with realistic day to day concerns could easily crack under the mountain of information to process.


of course, the only alternative would be ignorance...but to me, being ignorant is not unlike being dead

reply to post by SaturnFX


Well, that's what you get for thinking.
I once was convinced that there was a good chance that aliens could be here.
Learning, maturing, critical thinking and a long long history of fakery ( almost ALL of it) in the alien/UFO world leads me to strongly believe otherwise.
But just surrender to the void. the new religion is pop culture, what you see on TV, read on the internet, how you are indoctrinated. A blur of fantasy and pacifying superstition.
It's becoming passe to actually be educated, or to try to discern fact from popular opinion. It's also unpopular.
Just a few embrace science and learning, while pseudoscience and superstition cascade over us like a tidal wave. The barbarians are at the gate and they have the keys!
Keep your opinions close to the vest, just go with flow and be at peace.
Sometimes we cannot understand the universe, but it may be better to just appreciate it.

reply to post by OldDragger


Thanks for the post.

Yes, it does seem that proper investigation falls off the cliff and replaced with trendy news and pop-sci silliness...however, if you decide to go strictly to a science viewpoint, well...science is still debating the nature of gravity...so going fully skeptical would require no belief system whatsoever, to include being uncertain if in 10 minutes gravity will suddenly run out of juice...we have to take leaps and assumptions somewhere just to keep sane.

If I got cancer..lets say a nasty strain..I know the hospital couldn't help me...going with traditional medicine will certainly kill me, but that is where science is at...
on the other hand, there are many claims of this or that which are outside of current acceptable treatment that suggests that it will cure cancer.
Do I remain skeptical and go through standard treatment, knowing only a coffin awaits, or do you walk away from science and risk little overall?

the more profound implication would be if indeed it did cure me...that would mean that the current scientific methods are simply not up to par with reality...now, that last statement seems fairly acceptable to say...science is not a deity field, it is a field of trial and error and endless testing to figure stuff out..
Science shows us that there is no proof of aliens...but simple speculation of the universe in context makes the notion of a empty universe completely absurd...mindbogglingly absurd.

Actually, as someone else said and I will agree....if it was found that there is no advanced life elsewhere in the universe...that would be the smoking gun in my opinion that there was a God...because the improbability is simply too astronomical to even consider. it is with that safe belief that lets the rest of the dominos fall.

too much to consider

reply to post by SaturnFX


Well I know a woman that refused cancer treatment and opted for "natural" treatment.
She's dead, but that's another story!
Science is principle, it applies to certain things, not everything.
But it does work, faith didn't invent the computer.
With UFO/aliens it's like trying to find the end of the rainbow. After YEARS of covering the same ground over and over, never getting any closer you may have your answer.

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Well I know a woman that refused cancer treatment and opted for "natural" treatment.
She's dead, but that's another story!
Science is principle, it applies to certain things, not everything.
But it does work, faith didn't invent the computer.
With UFO/aliens it's like trying to find the end of the rainbow. After YEARS of covering the same ground over and over, never getting any closer you may have your answer.

I have known several people, including close family members whom opted for clinical treatment
they are dead also.

I am a fan of science, but I also see its current limitations. Science cannot prove love argument...faith cannot produce a cheeseburger.

As far as the answer...your right, I am no closer to any final answer now than when I first started...but its been one fun trip getting to this point anyhow.
and because I do not have my answer does not mean there is none to have.

as much as I hate to use the beaten to death argument of the flat earth theory, it is fitting.
people assumed at one point the earth was flat.
then time went on, evidence started coming in suggesting it was not flat..initially this was bawked at and ridiculed...then as it advanced, more and more jumped on board..not because there was proof, but because it started to make a bit more sense than the alternatives.
right up until ole Chris jumped on a boat and tried to find india, there were still plenty whom believed the world was flat. by this point, common sense was that it probably was a pear or a sphere or some shape like that...but that common sense didn't spring up overnight...
When he did make the trip and proved his claim (and bumped into another landmass on the way of course) it didn't come as a huge suprise, but there was a final justification.

perhaps we are still on a flat earth..in regards to this subject...and the evidence is mounting slowly...common sense is starting to hit that neutral point where either side of the argument seems pretty logical now...but in 50-100 years, the common sense thinking may be..ya, they are there, and coming here, and now we just need to get someone on a ship and check out that star system, or check all frequencies from planets to find the bandwith they broadcast on, etc...

speculation...endless speculation

reply to post by SaturnFX


I cannot comment on the overall effect on people of considering these subjects. The fact is that everyone has different approaches to the subject, born of differing attention spans, different levels of understanding of basic science, and a whole host of other factors which would require alot of mathematical talent, and many hours of processing time to unravel.
However, from my perspective, it is the possibility of alien intelligent life, which first engendered in me , an interest in science, which is still one of my favourite interests. When I was a child I was awestruck by works of science fiction , be they literature or movies. My favourite authour at age nine was Arthur C. Clarke, my favourite movie was flight of the Navigator (guilty pleasure I know, but it was fun and I was a kid ). The very idea that there might be something outside of human expirience, thinking and living just beyond our ability to communicate, and interact with was so compelling, so utterly awe inspiring, that it held my attention from then, till now.
Although I never reached any level of qualification in the sciences (other than completing my GCSE in science) I have aquired over the years, a decent understanding of the basic principles involved with all manner of scientific endevours, and because science continues to discover and impress, I continue to absorb knowlege. Although I cannot say for certain that I would have no interest whatsoever in science if not for the possibility of the existance of extra terrestrial life, I can certainly say that I would never have been interested enough to pass a basic exam in it, and certainly not interested enough to comment on boards like this.
I see around me on a daily basis , people of my age group, who had the same oppertunities I had as a youngster, to learn and absorb information about science, who were NEVER interested at all , and do not care a damn for it now. The same can be said for many of the subjects taught in schools around my nation. There are half a generation of people in my nation who do not care for anything which happens outside thier everyday mundanity , and do not excersize their minds to even the barest extent. If I were not interested in ET, I would perhaps never have seized upon the oppertunities I have taken , to absorb, to expand, and to improve my understanding of the planet I live on, the system in which it lies, or the universe in which it exists.

reply to post by SaturnFX


SaturnFX.....

Thank you for your thoughtful, well expressed commentary.

If I keep my commentary specific to my (almost) 1 year on ATS.....

I have found new information & new opinions & perspectives that complemented my existing knowledge of this topic, thereby helping to hone my thoughts & opinions about some interesting cases.

So to use your words.....

I don't think it has made me more "stupid".

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by SaturnFX


This is one thing that has crossed my mind as well. I will say this I do believe there is other "life," out there but I use that term loosely. It could be any kind of life.

As to the point of the subject making me more "stupid," or "brilliant," I have learned a great deal from the field alone but not all of it has to do with actual UFO's. Researching is an important part of the field which is something you (unless you just blindly believe one way or the other ) have to do and while I may not be the best researcher when it comes to school work or actual work the passion I have for this field has made me a better researcher when it comes to that kind of stuff.

So I would say that just the passion I have for this field has helped me in my everyday life wether or not this all turns out to be a big hoax or ET's do exist. It definetly has not made me brilliant by any means though

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I have known several people, including close family members whom opted for clinical treatment
they are dead also.

And I have known several people that never had cancer at all.

Yet, they are dead as well.

Harte

Most scientists agree that it's highly probable that there is intelligent alien life.
Where they differ, is on that likelihood of it being able to travel here.

Distances are VAST between star systems, and we simply can't comprehend technology that would enable this kind of travel.

Then again, when I was a kid, I couldn't comprehend that one day I'd be able to carry a phone in my pocket that could connect with people halfway around the world, watch a video from Japan, or send a photo to someone in the Philippines, but here we are.....

Point is, just because it seems impossible to US, doesn't mean that an older and/or more advanced alien hasn't figured out a more realistic means of doing it. And, if they did, they just might look for others like them. (after all, we are too)....

We certainly live in a interesting time of progressive technology. dreams of yesterday are todays mundane facts..and we then wonder how we ever got along without it yesterday.

I do have one minor pet peeve with what you wrote though:

Originally posted by Gazrok
Distances are VAST between star systems, and we simply can't comprehend technology that would enable this kind of travel.

Now, without going all detail here, I will simply say we (using the term loosely.) can comprehend it. There are multiple theories about bending space, entanglement principles of simply uploading information from point A to B, quantum tunneling, etc...all of them still theoretical, but promising nonetheless

most of the time, it ends with "however it would take tremendous amounts of energy to test" and so just out of our reach for now.

Then you cross reference that statement with work being done and theoretical science on new energy sources, from zero point, to just a whole plethora of others which I am sure you came across.

I find the research going on about the hypothetical tachyon to be of interest and mind blowing consequences that come with it should it ever be fully proven, this would provide both a foundation for FTL travel and a incredible energy source all in one fell swoop.

Sorry, geeking out a bit...and yep, this is basically what I mean...a simple small statement becomes an explosion of theories, studies, and all sorts, yet all of it falling short of being completely convincing in regards to absolute proof.

its like we are standing on the edge of a technological and enlightened beach, we feel the pull of the water on the shoreline and know any moment a big wave is going to come crashing down, yet we cannot see, therefore we can only go with the little bit we know mixed with what we feel about the subject...and a person standing outside the water simply thinks we are losing it by talking about the pull of the water and how we are going to get all wet any second now.