Is Gliese 581g nothing but an 'interesting' story?

I ask this question because the skeptic in me is having a hard time trying to put this news story into a proper perspective. Sure, I'm happy that someone with some credentials (Steven Vogt, a professor of astronomy and astrophysics at the University of California, Santa Cruz) believes that life 'could' evolve on this planet because it 'fits' into the Goldielocks Zone hypotheses.

One of the major ingredients required for life in all the form we know about is liquid water. Earth is right at the centre of a zone which is known as the Goldielocks Zone, where the temperature is not too hot, and not too cold but is ‘just right’ for water to exist as a liquid.

It was just a matter of time before our technology in Astronomy would eventually find a planet that that would fit into this Goldielock Zone, I'm certain many more will be found in the coming future.

The point to this OP is this, is anyone else finding all this rather boring and uninteresting? How many times have we been told something that offers 'hope' only to later find it wasnt what we expected... Anyone remember ALH 84001 from 1996?

Allan Hills 84001 (commonly abbreviated ALH 84001) is a meteorite that was found in Allan Hills, Antarctica on December 27, 1984 by a team of U.S. meteorite hunters from the ANSMET project. Like other members of the group of SNCs (shergottite, nakhlite, chassignite), ALH 84001 is thought to be from Mars. On discovery, its mass was 1.93 kg. It made its way into headlines worldwide in 1996 when scientists announced that it might contain evidence for microscopic fossils of Martian bacteria based on carbonate globules observed.

Now if it turns out verifiable proof of laser-like signals were recieved from this solar system I might give this story more than a shrug.

What are your thoughts? Is this story just the tip of an iceberg? or just over reaction to the crumbs 'leaked' out to the public to justify the money thrown into this research?

reply to post by Freelancer


Personally I don't understand any skepticism?

Either you believe in the accepted science and math of our time, and you believe the estimates of the size of the universe and the number of galaxies, stars, and potential planets, in which case it is statistically impossible that Earth is unique, and therefore billions of other Earthlike planets exist, so how can you be a skeptic?

OR

You believe our sky was decorated by God for our entertainment and enlightenment and God created man from his own image, and everything is a physical illusion representing a spiritual existence and an eventual return to the spirit world to live with God. (Huge generalization of all religions, sorry.)

OR

You believe both. God created the universe, as understood by our modern science and mathematics, and although God may have created all of it, he did not create a unique Earth, he created billions of them. In which case why be a skeptic?

So, no matter which category you fall into, skepticism makes no sense. The math and science support billions of life supporting earths, and the God and spirituality concepts support anything your imagination can come up with, so there is no limit to the possibilities.

Why be skeptical?

Originally posted by Freelancer How many times have we been told something that offers 'hope' only to later find it wasnt what we expected... Anyone remember ALH 84001 from 1996?

True, in this particular case however, it may be different:

Supposedly habitable worlds have been found and later discredited, so what makes this one such a breakthrough? There's still a chance that further observations will dismiss this planet, also. But over the years, the radial velocity method has become more precise, the researchers point out in their journal article.In addition, the researchers didn't make some of the unrealistic assumptions made in the past, Seager said. For instance, another planet orbiting Gliese 581 (the planet Gliese 581c) also had been considered to have temperatures suitable for life, but in making those calculations, the researchers had come up with an "unrealistic" estimate for the amount of energy the planet reflected, Seager pointed out. That type of estimate wasn't made for this discovery.

Source

What is disappointing though, is I doubt our government even cares enough to fund the research necessary to both private and national organizations in order to do more regarding this newfound planet

Even if it is habitable, and even if there were, say intelligent life and civilizations, it's not like we could travel there. Not with our current technology. If the said "civilization" had a means of communication, they would essentially be the equivalent of a long-distance pen pal. That is, unless THEY have the technology to traverse space, to our planet....light years away.

I guess what i am saying is, it's fun to think that there may be another planet that resembles our own. However, the practical value of such knowledge is mere novelty. That is, until we develop the technology to travel huge distances. That is a long time from now, unfortunately.

I know there's alot of people on here that will claim that we already have the technology. Im basing my opinion solely on things that I know exist. Without speculation.

reply to post by InertiaZero


It is very significant if we could open communications. Imagine a network of communicating planets! Even if we can't travel, there is immense knowledge to be gained. Even if it took 20 years to send a signal, and 20 years to get a response, it would still be extremely worthwhile!

Also, we are getting very good at FTL communication. If paired electrons could be separated and used for communication purposes across that distance, we could have instantaneous communication. This would be virtually the same as communication across time! It might take 100's of years to get it set up, but once it was set up, they could give us a 20 year advance notice of an astronomical event moving at the speed of light!!

HUGE!!

reply to post by Freelancer


that is only one planet like earth but there are more planets like earth that is waiting to be discovered in my calendar there 15 million planets registered that looks are like planet earth coz there are 500 million sectors in the universe there are known or discovered but there are 900zillion sectors times 20 that is estimated in the universe coz the universe is divide by sectors like are solar system we are in the sector 5 in the universe are sector have 250milllion planets here are other sectors and there planets

sector 1 157million planets
sector 2 800 million planets
sector 3 150 million planets
sector 4 170 million planets
sector 6 100 million planets
sector 7 300 million planets
sector 500million 150 million planets

other planets in sector 5
greniden
phalla
turgeon
phallasix
e419
trebak
zoidnak
tronataka
bronus
armandino
franek18
darnelis
merchant
delodopine
vaneka
lica
nuptaka
nokatoto
tubahim
vultaka
like planet earth
1 trobakra
2 ubraka
3 glatorikos
continue

reply to post by getreadyalready

Contemporary skepticism (or scepticism) is loosely used to denote any questioning attitude,or some degree of doubt regarding claims that are elsewhere taken for granted

Source

In applying this to my OP, you will see that I mention that this kind of news story is fast becoming the 'norm' and not out of the ordinary considering our advancement in space research technology. Should I be excited in this discovery of a planet that someone says they feel that the chances of life being found there are 100 percent? Are we not to varying degrees, being desensitized to claims of life being found elsewhere?

reply to post by Freelancer


Skepticism is healthy, but the only reason we don't already know of a bunch of other Earthlike planets is because of our limited detection capability. It should be considered fact that the planets are out there waiting to be discovered.

Now as for desensitizing us to the subject. I think you are 100% correct, but the real question is whether or not this is intentional. Are they now trickling the news to us slowly to make acceptance of the facts easier? Or, are we just seeing the fruition of a lot of research and technological advancement coming together at one time?

Was there a concerted effort over the years to hide this information to protect religious beliefs? Or did we simply not have the science to back up the claims?

I don't know the answers to those questions, but I think it is ludicrous to believe there is only 1 Earth in the Universe. And I am not an Athiest. I am actually pretty religious. When I think of "skeptics" I tend to think of people that do not believe there is extra-terrestrial life. How can anyone believe we are unique in the universe when faced with the known facts?

reply to post by getreadyalready


(I guess what I am saying is it would be neat, sure. Aim SETI at it and start sending signals, by all means. But thats' what I was saying with the "pen pal" comment. It's hard to get excited. With ufology, and SETI, space travel, etc... it seems we are at an impasse.

Im forever an optimist, but when it comes to these sorts of stories, it's novelty.

The question the OP presented was "Is Gliese nothing but an interesting story?". I say yes, it is. It's very interesting.

But until we can get a space craft out there within an acceptable time-span.....

reply to post by getreadyalready


I dont disagree with your arguments, for the record I am not religious, but do believe that Intelligent life other than our, own exists in abundance. However, what are the chances that one of the 'first' planets 'we' find that fits into the the "Goldilocks", zone" becomes major news because someone feels that the chances of life being found there is 100 percent!. Normally scientists do not state 100% that they believe in anything to be true or sound especially when speculating. There has to be always some room for doubt.

Did you follow the link at the bottom of my OP? Also, in May 2009 this ATS thread discussed an interesting topic of an alledged signal coming from the Gliese 581 e system. Which was later in April 2009 said to be outside the so called "Goldilocks", zone but that Gliese 581 d was the main contender. Now September 2010 we are told that Gliese 581g is the one that falls into our "Goldilocks", zone.

So whats my problem? Besides the leaking or premeture announcements of a possible planet in the Gliese system that falls within this "Goldilocks", zone. I question the reason why so much attention is given to this system 20 light years away from Earth.

Before he (Ragbir Bhathal) can broadcast his findings to the world, Bhathal must put them through rigorous examination. First, he needs to make sure it wasn’t caused by a glitch or some random, weird space phenomenon. After that, he’ll will need his findings peer-reviewed. Both steps require finding the signal again, which has taken nearly a year already

Source

Yet the Wow signal is mentioned and is fairly well known even though it was never repeated.

Maybe I have been into conspiracies too long, but something does NOT fit right.

reply to post by vancouverbusii


Hi and welcome to ATS.

Do you have any sources of information that I can read that supports this? Any and all insights are welcome here.

reply to post by Freelancer

The signal did not come from the Gliese system. No where near the Gliese system

The signal we detected came from the southern constellation Tucanae. Please find attached the signal for your use in your publications.

www.space.com...

Gliese RA 15 19 26.82 Dec -07 43 20.2
Tucanae RA 00 24 .0567 Dec -72 04 52.6

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Why be skeptical?

It would be nice if a person's beliefs vs. what is actually true could be as easily categorized as you suggest:

God, Science, or Both.

Because you're forgetting the "X" factor. You're forgetting that we don't know what we don't know, and as a result, there could be a huge range of other possibilities out there that we are completely ignorant of. So being a skeptic, which is not just blindly believing that we have the "answer" easily selected from one of our tiny range of vague choices, is the only thing that makes sense.

Like "creationism," for instance. It's not like the only choices are God or Science, although a lot of people like to think so. But that seems like the choice because of the way we tend to think of time as linear. It's the way we frame the question.

I like to think that skepticism is the same thing as being patient. We don't need to have all the answers right now. We don't need to have instant "conclusions." I like the idea of just waiting to see how things play out, rather than trying to force them into some preconceived notion. I don't care if I'm "right." I just want to be open for a surprise.

reply to post by Blue Shift


I like your approach.

I counter it by saying that all of those "X-factors" will eventually be explained by either God or Science. In other words, either our science will catch up and explain things, or we will realize that our science is extremely lacking and we have to rely on blind faith for the explanation. Either way, I think it would roll back to either God or Science. As you say, Creationism is a fine example. Either some advanced/divine entity breathed life into us, or random occurences and organizations aligned things to spark to life. Either way, God or Science should be able to explain it.

Well the first thing wrong with all of this is that carbon based life forms are the only type we are attempting to recognize. For some reason, we humans think we know it all.. All the time. Now it is alright to look for carbon based life forms, but who is to say that every living thing in this universe has to adhere to the same principles that we do? What about silicon based life forms or whatever (insert element) here life forms you could think of. It is just as crazy to believe that the only things living out there are made of the same things we are.. Who are we to say what is really "Alive" if we don't fully understand it?

Also, how can this possibly be a dull subject? We are discovering planets, that have the conditions in which we believe life forms similar to ours can exist. Whether or not they do exist is another story, but the fact that the planet is there means there is a possibility for life to develop there. Plain and simple. Not only that, but this solar system is essentially our galactic neighbor, when you think about how large our galaxy is in comparison to the distance between our solar system and the Gliese system. That means that if these planets exist so close to us, there must be several more just like it spread throughout the galaxy.. Some of which could be inhabited by some form of life.

We may never make it there in our lifetimes, but we sure can send some signals.. And if nothing else we may get the attention of their "SETI" equivalents if there is an advanced life form there. If they are advanced enough they may just come here? Who knows? Or we could build a giant ship a la "WALL-E" and send it in the direction of that planet, with an enclosed, self sustaining environment where people can live for thousands of years as a floating civilization. I mean who knows.. The possibilities are endless. Nothing is too far fetched anymore...

The news is exciting.. If it isn't to you, I'm not sure what you expect. You gotta start somewhere. This is a building block to a much larger picture.

reply to post by Phage


Thank you Phage for that correction, I did read the posts at Space.com forums including the statement from Ragbir Bhathal regarding this innocent mistake. While mistakes do happen often, I find it more than a coincidence that this innocent mistake in naming Gliese as the source of this alledged signal just so happens to crop up a year later in the news as one that could very well have a 100 percent chance of finding life.

To my [limited] knowledge, there has been no further updates regarding DR Ragbir Bhathal initial findings since his statement admiting that "I think a couple of people from the European press made a mistake and associated my work with the work on extra-solar planets.". Easy mistake right? Southern constellation Tucanae with Gliese!

this information is base of list there are classified just what the world to know that there are existing planets in the universe that looks like planet earth but light years from are sector and other sectors in the universe the list has 500 million sectors that are known but only a few that I give so that you will know the name of the planets in our sector other upper sectors our hostile but there million light years from out sector because other aliens are searching other planets for there colonies to prosper because over population of the aliens in the universe the explorer aliens are those that have bulb head figure they come from our sector 5 planet nokrapata they have colonies from other sectors in the universe to exact as of now is 1 billion sectors and still searching from more planets to live in bulb head aliens are scientist aliens there here in planet earth from science and research and exploring new things in earth they arrive in the planet earth during the dinasaur period there one of the delagates of alien that attend the convention center in atlantis the center of the world in ancient times like in
UN gatherings in the USA yes we have found some earth form planets in our sector that have forest area water terrain mountain ranges that have fish animals plantation like here in earth they got some minerals like oil diamonds that are size of our head and gold ore in our sector there are 250 million planets that are registered with there color and size features the one planets they discovered like the gliese 581g is just one planets in our sector in our sector the 10 planet to 20th planet are earth like structure and the 21st planet tothe 23th planets is like mars and mercury this is the find of the century coz we humans have a chance to colonies other planets that are population to live in like the bulb heads the have a lot of species running around the universe from planets there number are 500 species of bulb heads the color of the planets in our sector that are like earth are sky blue, blue green, green blue, brownish blue here are some facts in sector 58 400million planets the angelican planet is found here are the winged people and the ancestor of humans came from because there to races in angelican planet the winged people and the humans were the creator lives or the great one rules called by the alien humans were adam and eve came from before they arrive with the creator in the garden of eden in the bible now we called UAE i hope you guys were not shock about this findings coming from the list that is classified