9/11 truthers its time to be more vocal.

I feel we are missing oppertunities and insight as to what happened that day and why. I have encountered a lot more people than I thought I would that do not believe the OS and I think its time to see how many are out there. We all know the government won't say anything, I think if we could get enough bits of evidence and theory collected in one place we could make more sense of it all. There's all these theories tbhat are a bit out there and that is what the media latches onto for sensationalism and makes all look like a joke. Credibility gets a lot further than disorganization. Thoughts?

I agree but if we do we're called "extremists" or "idiots" and even considered terrorists. We will be ridiculed. Out of any conspiracy this one has the most documented and eye witness proof. It has lead to sooooo much death and laws that have put freedom on the back burner never to see the light of day. It makes me a sad panda.

I have bounced around ATS for a few years.
I've even tossed my hat into the 9/11 ring a few times.

I like debating and always open to new theroies and ideas.
But thats where it ends.

I honestly you could put every bit of "evidence in one room,air it on every channel 24/7,for a week,and it wont matter.

I believe there are people out there who dont believe the OS,but just go on with their days.
The truth is,you can show people videos,documents,statements,you can teach people about engineering,science and logic,BUT you cant teach people to care.

9/11 after all its debating will fall into the realm of JFK.
People will think what they want,but not care enough to uproot their own personal lives to do much about it.
But talk and debate,which is why places like ATS are here.

Originally posted by BlueLightRain
I feel we are missing oppertunities and insight as to what happened that day and why. I have encountered a lot more people than I thought I would that do not believe the OS and I think its time to see how many are out there. We all know the government won't say anything, I think if we could get enough bits of evidence and theory collected in one place we could make more sense of it all. There's all these theories tbhat are a bit out there and that is what the media latches onto for sensationalism and makes all look like a joke. Credibility gets a lot further than disorganization. Thoughts?

The problem for this idea is that the argument for conspiracy is made up 100% of innuendo, facts and quotes taken out of context, five degrees of separation, "Kevin Bacon" games, and outright lies. If, say, you put in your collection that no interceptors were scrambled on 9/11 and it's subsequently revealed that F-15s were scrambled from MA and F-16s were scrambled from VA, it's going to show the conspiracy proponents are pretty intellectually lazy and can't even do a simple 30 second google search into their own claims. The truth may be out there, but it's certainly NOT going to be found on Loose Change or Prison Planet.

Besides, your worst enemy isn't debunkers like me or imaginary secret disinformation agents you think are stalking you and inciting arguments over what, "pull it" means. Your own worst enemy is yourselves, with these "lasers from outer space", "it's all the fault of the Jewish World Order" and whatever other half baked accusations you and your fellow conspiracy theorists are conjuring up. Come on, now, seriously, when you're laying out your reasons for why we need a new investigation and then some guy comes by insisting the planes were all holograms, you're all going to look like a bunch of nuts by association.

I keep pointing that out and yet you still don't get it, so why you people are whining that noone is taking you seriously is beyond me.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


GoodOlDave, the problem with your ruling out sources of information is that as soon as source starts releasing a certain type of information, you would immediately call it a "damn fool conspiracy site" (a favorite quote of yours) and say that it is not a valid source of information, effectively silencing yet another important source, allowing you to maintain your mindset.

The "six degrees of separation game" is also another fun quote, as most only have one degree of separation when separated at all. For instance the drug trafficking. There's one degree of separation in two directions there. Royal Sons LLC - different company name, same address as pilot training center Huffman Aviation. That's one degree of separation. Also another one degree of separation is that the same plane was used for extraordinary rendition before being used for the drug trafficking. You see, that is important information, but in your world it isn't allowed.

Basically what that says is that Huffman Aviation was a CIA front, which would explain why they could release the pilot names from its customer database so quickly as being the pilots in 9/11, and why so many of these pilots were actually not there and are still alive. So much for real investigation, right?

Has anyone else noticed how these Yahoo! News stories regarding 9/11 are exploding with comments?

Usually, their stories will get less than a couple hundred comments... but just yesterday there was a story "Ahmadinejad calls for US leaders to be 'buried'" which again touched on 9/11. Within 20 minutes of the story posting there was over 4000 comments. Another story had close to 10,000 comments in less than 12 hours after the story broke.

Every story about Iran's President in which he suggests 9/11 was an inside job ends up exploding in the comments section with people from all over supporting those theories, while others push an anti-Iran/ anti-Muslim hate propaganda, or of course the old and tired tin foil hat rhetoric....

Here's a few recent ones worth checking out, just for comments section alone... It seems a lot people are using these stories to voice their opinions on 9/11. It's amazing how quickly the comments grow...

Ahmadinejad calls for US leaders to be 'buried'
news.yahoo.com...

9/11 conspiracy theories rife in Muslim world
news.yahoo.com...

US walks out on Ahmadinejad's UN speech
news.yahoo.com...

I discovered a couple of friends were truthers recently. I didn't try to debate them, I just listened to their questions and then asked them to look up a few sources and get back to me. About a week later, got a phone call, " Dude, I cannot believe I was so friggen stupid to believe all that crap (truther stuff)"

Originally posted by diginess
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

GoodOlDave, the problem with your ruling out sources of information is that as soon as source starts releasing a certain type of information, you would immediately call it a "damn fool conspiracy site" (a favorite quote of yours) and say that it is not a valid source of information, effectively silencing yet another important source, allowing you to maintain your mindset.

Well THAT'S a pretty hypocritical accusation, particularly coming from you people. There are engineers, eyewitnesses, transportation officials, etc who are showing evidence on how it was a terrorist attack and yet you people brush it off on the grounds they're gov't employees. I'm sorry, but when a NYC deputy fire chief reports that fires were burning out of control in WTC and that there was a three story tall bulge in the side of the building from the fires, I'm going to believe him until someone can explain why I shouldn't...and no, accusing him of being a secret disinformation agent simply because you don't trust a gov't employee isn't a valid reason.

I sneer at Loose Change, etc specifically becuase they're putting out exactly the type of badly researched, "no interceptors were scrambled" information I'm trying to warn you about. If you don't want to listen, fine, but don't turn around and whine when people like me come by and show that you're behaving no differently than those con artists are.

The "six degrees of separation game" is also another fun quote, as most only have one degree of separation when separated at all. For instance the drug trafficking. There's one degree of separation in two directions there. Royal Sons LLC - different company name, same address as pilot training center Huffman Aviation. That's one degree of separation. Also another one degree of separation is that the same plane was used for extraordinary rendition before being used for the drug trafficking. You see, that is important information, but in your world it isn't allowed.

It isn't so much that it's "not allowed" than it is "you're allowing absurd things that you really shouldn't". Person A met person B through his piloting expertise who happens to be a pilot for drug traffickers. You have zero proof there's anything more to it than that so you present it in such a way that you can say there's a connection between A and B without coming out and saying it. It goes without sayign that B has additional contacts to persons C, D and E who live otherwise ordinary lives (I.E. his next door neighbor who works in insurance) but you leave that out becuase it doesn't benefit your conspiracy stories at all.

Basically what that says is that Huffman Aviation was a CIA front, which would explain why they could release the pilot names from its customer database so quickly as being the pilots in 9/11, and why so many of these pilots were actually not there and are still alive. So much for real investigation, right?

No, basically what that says is that you want the events of 9/11 to be more sinister than they really are, so you invent accusations of Huffington Aviation being a CIA front by inventing connections between Atta and drug running pilots, all to invent an accusation the gov't had a hand in the 9/11 attack somehow. All this, without even a microbe of actual evidence to back the claim up. This isn't coming from any serious research. This is coming entirely out of your own inventive imagination.

So when I say your conspiracy claims are based entirely upon rubbish, how exactly are you proving me incorrect by making accusations that are based entirely upon rubbish?

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Besides, your worst enemy isn't debunkers like me or imaginary secret disinformation agents you think are stalking you and inciting arguments over what, "pull it" means. Your own worst enemy is yourselves, with these "lasers from outer space", "it's all the fault of the Jewish World Order" and whatever other half baked accusations you and your fellow conspiracy theorists are conjuring up. Come on, now, seriously, when you're laying out your reasons for why we need a new investigation and then some guy comes by insisting the planes were all holograms, you're all going to look like a bunch of nuts by association.

Hey Dave what's up? Just wanted you to know, there is someone paying you a great deal of mind. I agree with
your point about half baked accusations. As I'm sure you can tell from my posts in the 911 forums. I have
my strongest point, that I feel I know as well as anyone can. I stay with that mostly. As far disinfo agents I'm
sure you won't deny that anyone could pose as one of us. No top security clearence in our organisation.
If we venture to be even that.
I know as a truther, if I buy into the sillyness that is coming from ( to be realistic you can't really say) whereever.
Then the truth I know as fact about that day, will be discredited. See Dave that's why I go a bit farther then
even you, concerning anyone who is lying or fabricating information about 911.
I would declare that an act of high treason. Requiring a death penalty. I think you are a straight shooter Dave.
You make every post count and always use good sense.
I couldn't call my self a truther without acknowledgment of these facts.
By this I can see, no way, that you believe the OS is the full truth of the matter.
There is just noway you don't see some holes. I simply must give you more credit than that from my own few observations.

Randyvious

I bet you Dave, if nothing else, you wonder why not one person involved with MSM has come down on the side of
the truthers? Why does every person involved with the mainstream have the exact same opinion?
When I watch CNN or one of the others. I feel like I'm watching real life science fiction. Attack of the clones
or Invasion of the body sniffers, or something. Not one of them even has any pity for us poor crazy people. that have been infected with this terrorist propaganda. Which by the way is far more believable way for us to be silenced by them if they we're even smart enough to think like me. Ok. I'm getting carried away now,
But you dig?

I think you are a straight shooter Dave. You make every post count and always use good sense.

I agree. Thank God for Dave. When you need someone to cut through the obvious distortions and get to the real truth of the matter Dave is always on hand, ready and waiting to deliver his damning report. His keen ability to accurately size up 'conspiracy websites' and confidently proclaim them as absolute nonsense is what keeps this forum mercifully free of disinformation. Without Dave, we would undoubtedly all be slaves to these brainwashing conspiracy websites.

In all seriousness though, I agree, it's about time we started to get a tad more vocal. Init.

Originally posted by randyvs
By this I can see, no way, that you believe the OS is the full truth of the matter.
There is just noway you don't see some holes. I simply must give you more credit than that from my own few observations.

Oh, absolutely. I will be the first to admit there's a heck of a lot more to the story that what the gov't is admitting, but the gov't isn't some brain sitting in in a vat of fluid somewhere or a bunch of clones bred to perform in a hive mentality. The gov't is made up of many many individuals, and as individuals, people bring in their individual strengths and weaknesses. Person A will honestly care about serving the public, person B is a selfish wanker, person C won't even sneeze unless he has the proper forms, and person D is a blithering idiot. Whenever a committee of people like these comes together it breeds incompetence and it's going to turn everything they touch into raw sewage, so a gov't that can't even hand out botles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels is sure as shootin' going to fudge up their response during a major terrorist attack a lot more than they're admitting to.

Thus, the real conspiracy- someone really, and I mean really, [censored] up at their post and it was this [censored] up that allowed the attack to proceed as successfully as it did,...and everyone is sweeping everythign under the rug becuase noone wants to come forward and admit it was their incompetence that led to the deaths of 3000 people. Come now, seriously, which have YOU seen more of in the past; gov't incompetence or someone sneaking into an occupied building and planting secret controlled demolitions that noone noticed?

There are plenty of real reasons to gripe at the gov't for without needing to invent new ones.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

If, say, you put in your collection that no interceptors were scrambled on 9/11 and it's subsequently revealed that F-15s were scrambled from MA and F-16s were scrambled from VA,

19 alleged common Arab terrorists commandeered four US commercial airliners and hit not one, not two, but three major American icons without any interference from the world’s greatest military machine. Where was our great almighty military with their Billions $ homeland security? Yeah Dave, the military dispatched scrambled jets just in time to do nothing. Your so called hijacked planes were flying our friendly skies for an hour or so, without any military or NORAD intervention, and all we got was billions $ in losses in destructions, 3,000 dead, government lies, and propaganda media lies, and you wonder why there are so many conspiracies. You must think everyone is either stupid or completely out of touch with reality.

it's going to show the conspiracy proponents are pretty intellectually lazy and can't even do a simple 30 second google search into their own claims. The truth may be out there, but it's certainly NOT going to be found on Loose Change or Prison Planet.

Dave, I assume you believe all 911 truths are on the gov.org websites, right Dave? The United States Government never tells lies, does it Dave? The United States Government has nothing to hide, right Dave? Here’s a fact Dave, anyone who still believes all the 911 lies from the gov.org websites “are pretty intellectually lazy and can't even do a simple 30 second google search into their own claims.” How does that work for you Dave?

The truth may be out there, but it's certainly NOT going to be found on Loose Change or Prison Planet.

Maybe not, but you certainly are not going to find it on the gov.org dam fools conspiracy websites.

Besides, your worst enemy isn't debunkers like me or imaginary secret disinformation agents you think are stalking you and inciting arguments over what, "pull it" means. Your own worst enemy is yourselves, with these "lasers from outer space", "it's all the fault of the Jewish World Order" and whatever other half baked accusations you and your fellow conspiracy theorists are conjuring up. Come on, now, seriously, when you're laying out your reasons for why we need a new investigation and then some guy comes by insisting the planes were all holograms, you're all going to look like a bunch of nuts by association.

Dave, many of your fellow OS conspiracy theorists have to conjuring up fallacies in order to try and defend the OS, you cannot defend lies with truths only more lies.

Most people are waking up to the fact that our government not only lied to them about 911, but now our government has admitted THEY LIED publicly and in books and dares anyone to question their authority. Perhaps you might find comfort in Russia, or North Korea if that is the kind of government you want to protect, however most Americans are waking up, thanks to the internet and are pretty angry and know 911 was an inside job.

Your rants only serve to insult and ridicule anyone who dares to question the OS and nothing more.

I keep pointing that out and yet you still don't get it, so why you people are whining that noone is taking you seriously is beyond me.

The door swings both ways Dave, I don’t believe people take the OS seriously anymore Dave, very few even on ATS support your assumptions and opinions and if anyone does it is beyond me, to why.