Sacked Moscow mayor: Russia is sliding back to Stalinism

Sacked Moscow mayor: Russia is sliding back to Stalinism

Moscow, Russia (CNN) -- Long-time Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov accused President Dmitry Medvedev of leading Russia back into Stalinism a day before he was sacked, a letter in a Russian magazine showed Wednesday.

"Fear to express one's opinion in our country has existed since 1937," Luzhkov wrote to Medvedev, referring to the height of Stalinist repression.

After reading this article I had to wonder if this guy actually has a point? I know he could simply be pissed and wanted some payback but, recently I sarcastically replied in a thread of another topic and stated that if ["Putin wanted the Presidency then he would have the presidency and the vote wouldn't matter"]

It received a surprising amount of stars. So does this mean that many believe that the Russian Government is just a facade of democracy?

The article continues...

"If the country's leadership is supporting those fears with its own remarks... then it is easy to come to a situation where we have only one leader whose words are carved in stone and who should be followed strictly and unquestionably. How does that correlate with your appeal to 'develop democracy?'" Luzhkov demands in the letter, which was published in The New Times.

Interesting....

reply to post by SLAYER69


Definitely onto something here. IMHO I see Russia coming into a new era.
I am keeping an eye on the recently strengthed ties between Russia and China.

I also remember hearing rumblilngs about this a few months ago, could not confirm it then.
This is interesting news from yesterday...
China, Russia look to "new era" of strategic relations
news.xinhuanet.com...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Sacked Moscow mayor: Russia is sliding back to Stalinism

Moscow, Russia (CNN) -- Long-time Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov accused President Dmitry Medvedev of leading Russia back into Stalinism a day before he was sacked, a letter in a Russian magazine showed Wednesday.

Wait, Slay -- what's wrong w/ getting sacked for accusing TPTB in a democracy of being undemocratic? Am I missing something here? (*irony drowning in sarcasm*)

After reading this article I had to wonder if this guy actually has a point? I know he could simply be pissed and wanted some payback but, recently I sarcastically replied in a thread of another topic and stated that if ["Putin wanted the Presidency then he would have the presidency and the vote wouldn't matter"]

It received a surprising amount of stars. So does this mean that many believe that the Russian Government is just a facade of democracy?

The article continues...

"If the country's leadership is supporting those fears with its own remarks... then it is easy to come to a situation where we have only one leader whose words are carved in stone and who should be followed strictly and unquestionably. How does that correlate with your appeal to 'develop democracy?'" Luzhkov demands in the letter, which was published in The New Times.

Interesting....

I agree Slay, it is an interesting issue. I believe that there are a few fundamental problems at a societal level at play here - - and in Iraq, and in Afghanistan, and in any number of other countries "new" to the "rule" of democracy. These fundamental problems, among others, include: (1) the reality that these cultures are not grounded in democratic principles (at the individual level, at the societal level, and especially in the lack of balance of power between the executive, legislative, and judiciary branches of government); and (2) unchecked capitalism.

It's one thing to tell a nation: congratulations, you're living in a democracy now! It's quite another to develop a "culture" of democracy -- an EMPOWERED population that UNDERSTANDS and BELIEVES in the principles of democracy and the inherent rights and freedoms therein. Established regimes and fiefdoms at the micro and macro levels are reluctant to relinquish their power and put it into the hands of the common man. Furthermore, power begets money, which buys more power (and corruption), which (unchecked) perpetuates anti-democratic environments.... Which leads us to:

Capitalism. Being amoral by nature, capitalism (unchecked) presents serious challenges to democracy, government, individual freedoms, individual rights, the environment, etc. Money begets power. Power (unchecked) corrupts. The successful pursuit of profit w/out the restraints of morality in a democracy dramatically shifts the balance of power. For democracy and capitalism to successfully co-exist, there needs to be a system of checks and balances in place. This system has not been successfully developed in Russia. We've been working on this system for a few hundred years and have yet to perfect it. In Russia, it's been a couple decades. Furthermore, power there really rests in the hands of a few - the oligarchs - who were handed the keys to the castle upon the demise of the USSR by those in power. Don't think for a second there weren't quid pro quo's involved...

Sorry for the rant, could go on for days re the philosophical, political, and economic underpinnings at play... But the bottom line is that under the guise of "democracy" a "capitalist' system was "established" in Russia by those that have the ultimate power: the power of force... Are members of the judiciary really capable of challenging abuses by the executive when the system in place does not protect individual members of the judiciary from the executive? The same principle applies to the legislative. Unfortunately for "democracy" in Russia, Putin still holds the keys to the executive, and therefore to the military, and therefore the real power...

edit on 29-9-2010 by Yukitup because: form, d*mn quote form...

edit on 29-9-2010 by Yukitup because: just can't get it right...

What they are calling "Stalinism" is just the Russian variety of what the US and the rest of the world has: a nation run by its intelligence operations.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan



So then you would agree that it's a facade?
I have never doubted that in certain circles within the Kremlin that ghosts of KGB past still roam.

reply to post by SLAYER69



It certainly is a facade. All of it.

And those ghosts are not very ghostly. Putin is more of a ex KGB demon than a ghost.

Truman warned against the Military Industrial Complex. The "complex" part would include corporations, billioinaires, and intelligence organizations.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Star and Flag for some important news, but ...

If you look into some of the things that have happened here int he US you might
say it is a facade of democracy as well.

The powers that be run the show and Carlin put it best in regards to who runs the world.



The holding of bills til after midnight and then forcing the congress critters to vote on them
without reading them is just one sign post on the road to hell for this country.

An open border for decades, and 73 different types of Visas to get cheap labor in here.

en.wikipedia.org...

Some are not listed as work types, but law breakers don't give a damn and do it anyways.

It is just a little more obvious outside the US, but it is going on in many countries.

They want their one world gangsta government, and only once it gets real uncomfortable
for most ppl will they rise from their Lazy Boy chairs and shake their fists, lol.

Meanwhile I have made my preparations to bug out for when it all goes sideways like
it has many times thru history, and what is coming will just be history repeating itself
yet again.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech




Carlin.
I'm sorry but that's classic.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


"Gangsta Government"....that is good. Very true, and very adequate.

Have you read Smedley Butler? He is a self proclaimed "leg breaker" for the US gangsters, pre WWII era. That is a good description of what our military does to this very day.

Look at what we do with Saudi Arabia. it is a protection racket. Pure and simple.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Ex_MislTech

 

"Gangsta Government"....that is good. Very true, and very adequate.

Have you read Smedley Butler? He is a self proclaimed "leg breaker" for the US gangsters, pre WWII era. That is a good description of what our military does to this very day.

Look at what we do with Saudi Arabia. it is a protection racket. Pure and simple.

Smedley Butler from the film The Corporation:



Some have even taken to doing a dramatic recreation of one of his speeches:



These dovetail well into Eisenhower's farewell address:



When you consider events like Operation Northwoods, Garden Plot,
Rex 84, Iran-Contra, The CIA, Barry Seal & The Mena drug connection, etc etc.

en.wikipedia.org...

You can look to the deaths of JFK, his brother, and MLK and know that
what was the United States is no longer what it seems.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I am not sure of Yuri Luzhkov's claims and nonsense about this being the "return to Stalinism".

It sure seems to me as if he is saber-rattling just for sounds bytes and newspaper print more than anything.

I remember reading Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago and getting chills up my spine.

The Gulag Archipelago Volume 1: An Experiment in Literary Investigation

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1a81fa524cd5.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

Volume 1 of the gripping epic masterpiece, Solzhenitsyn's chilling report of his arrest and interrogation, which exposed to the world the vast bureaucracy of secret police that haunted Soviet society.

I guess he learned from the old school of propaganda that before being terminated to rile up the crowd for support.

And it seems to have backfired on him as no one rallied around him to stop his firing.

Nothing compares to Cold War Russia when the "mighty Russian bear" has lost her teeth.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


OK Fair enough....

However. Are we to assume and expect a country that has never had any form of Democracy or openness to be able to go from centuries of varying types of powerful central governance to an open system in only 15 to 20 years?

I think not. It's an illusion just like what we have here in the West. Illusion

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

OK Fair enough....

However. Are we to assume and expect a country that has never had any form of Democracy or openness to be able to go from centuries of varying types of powerful central governance to an open system in only 15 to 20 years?

I think not. It's an illusion just like what we have here in the West. Illusion

edit on 30-9-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Of course what we have is an illusion.

Those behind the scenes hide it well.

I never said I expected Russia to ever gain the same semblence of illusion.

The Wizard of Oz: Pay No Attention


The naivete of America as well as Russia is the blind belief no one controls them.

Meanwhile, they are nothing but marionettes, controlled by a puppetmaster.

And the strings are easily seen if you're paying attention which we both know rarely happens.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2447475e78a1.jpg[/atsimg]

The Secret Societies are the puppetmasters pulling strings both here and in Russia.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Meanwhile, they are nothing but marionettes, controlled by a puppetmaster.

And the strings are easily seen if you're paying attention which we both know rarely happens.

If it walks like a duck...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d73af0ffa3a1.jpg[/atsimg]

Perhaps the Mayor of Moscow is playing a part from America's history...
that of The Lord Mayor of London in 1770 and champion of the colonies in America: populist John Wilkes... ATS Link

-45-

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


The Smedley Butler speech (War is Racket) is outstanding. I have it on my blog. It is far, far to little known by the average joe.

It is the CIA, some corporations (that are useful to the rest of the group), billionaires, and the military (the CIA and military are virtually indistinguishable operationally).

There is not a single troop overseas right now doing work that is benefitting mankind. If we were to benefit mankind, we would be in Somalia. Our defense budget is all I need to know. "Figure don't lie, but liars can figure."

Interesting angle...

Here is what RT is saying, and some background on the guy:

Yury Luzhkov held the mayor’s post for 18 years. Throughout these years he managed both to maintain good relations with the country’s leaders and to gain support from voters due to populist policy sponsored by the city’s budget.

However, Russian and foreign media have repeatedly reported that Luzhkov had used the economic potential of the post to the full. According to these reports, Luzhkov started making his fortune on the economic crisis of the late nineties. Most multi-million construction projects in Moscow are believed to have no other point but a cover up for his money laundering. The money that the Russian government annually allocates to improve infrastructure rarely makes it to the ramshackle roads of Moscow.

While the country was losing money during the economic downturn in 2009, Luzhkov's income increased.

Much more at the source, including other and related articles about him and the whole political situation regarding his removal.

The mayor of Moscow is one of the most corrupt figures in that nation. His wife, a construction magnate, has become a billionaire because of her close connections to the Moscow machine. It makes Chicago look like Disneyland in term sof the corruption. He should have been removed decades ago if not put in jail. It's sour grapes on his part.

Russia is a police state for thousand years. Since Ivan Grozny for sure - well its only half thousand. Thieves were always of minor importance.
So there is no sliding.

I would think the people should have the power to hire and fire their mayors and governors, but not in Russia anymore. The president now appoints these people, and soon will probably appoint members of their Duma. This should come as no surprise as Mr Putin is extremely popular and will probably run for president again in 2012 for two more terms.

China and Russia have always had an uneasy relationship, so any agreement between the two should be looked at from a historical perspective.

Also, the older population of Russia wants the old ways back, not the younger ones. I seriously doubt we will go back to the Cold War, but I do see Russia sliding into authoritarianism for a while. When the younger generation grows into power, things will change again.