Did the Ancient Egyptians Build the Great Pyramids with Hot Air Balloons?

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Nice find!

released on its maiden flight, Condor climbed quickly, reaching an altitude of 600 ft. in 30 seconds. Then, buffeted by brisk winds, it fell back to earth and hit with a thud that bounced the two pilots out of their gondola.

Wouldn't fancy being around it with a 2 tone block on the end though

Hello mate..finally an egyptian thread....

well this is not how the pyramids were built.
the answer is simple... i do not want to disclose MY theory as OTHERS might claim it as there own.

How do i go about gaining recogniition for my idea... and being Known as the "discoverer" without someone else putting their name on it. ie copywrite...then i can show u..ul love it

i look forward to ur reply

reply to post by theAymen


I think I know what your theory is!
Should I say?
Perhaps I'll wait, it's your shot!

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
Hi ATS, Did the Ancient Egyptians Build the Great Pyramids with Hot Air Balloons?

Hi Scott, I cannot imagine myself in any way that they did use hot air balloons for that?

But here are some questions I have.

How and with what where they able to heating the air in those balloons enough and without setting them into fire?

How strong must those ropes have been to be able to carry the stone blocks and especially the heavy ones so they could hung freely under the balloon?

Then the following, how strong must the balloon itself have been to be able to carry such a heavy weight all together, blocks and ropes and such and especially at the points where the ropes would have been connected with the “skin” of the balloon so to say?

And would the wind if there was any not have been a dangerous factor during the manipulation of the blocks to its final position, again especially during the manipulation of the heavy ones?

And I assume they did need really many balloons and ropes because I expect that they could easy be damaged during such difficult operations.

I personally do not have the impression that the images you posted are related with hot air balloons.

So therefore I will be honest with you, this is the first thread from you which really raised my eyebrows to the maximum.

reply to post by spacevisitor


Hello Spacevisitor,

Nice to hear from you again - it has been a while.

Spacevisitor: Hi Scott, I cannot imagine myself in any way that they did use hot air balloons for that?

SC: I am not saying here that this is categorically how the ancient Egyptians raised the blocks to build the pyramids. I am merely presenting what I consider a plausible possibility and for us to get nearer to the truth I think we owe it to ourselves to consider and test all (plausible) possibilities. That is all I am doing here and, to be quite honest, it is important that flaws are pointed out and I welcome that. Means I don't send myself down a blind alley for ever and a day!

Spacevisitor: How and with what where they able to heating the air in those balloons enough and without setting them into fire?

SC: Well I rather suspect you would have to have a kiln of some kind with some kind of stone outlet flue or vent to allow the hot air out and into the balloon opening which may be mounted on a frame a safe distance above the kiln. Since it is a kiln the naked flame (fire) is contained within the kiln and would be less likely to damage the linen fabric of the balloon which would - as stated - be raised higher on a frame.

Spacevisitor: How strong must those ropes have been to be able to carry the stone blocks and especially the heavy ones so they could hung freely under the balloon?

SC: We can't know unless we try it. However, we do know the ancient Egyptians made ropes strong enough to haul these very heavy blocks up ramps - which is essentially all the balloon would be doing. I do not envisage a situation where an actual limestone block is tied directly to the balloon. (See diagrams below for a better understanding as to how I envisage such a system working which is an adaptation of Maureen Clemmons Kite Theory):

Spacevisitor: ...how strong must the balloon itself have been to be able to carry such a heavy weight all together, blocks and ropes and such and especially at the points where the ropes would have been connected with the “skin” of the balloon so to say?

SC: We know the first hot air balloon was made of paper and linen - materials the ancient Egyptians had easy access to. Would such a balloon made of linen be a strong enough fabric that, when filled with hot air, would not tear under its own weight - it's really hard to say without actually testing it. Would make a nice project for Discovery Chanel.

Spacevisitor: And would the wind if there was any not have been a dangerous factor during the manipulation of the blocks to its final position, again especially during the manipulation of the heavy ones?

SC: As outlined in the images above, I don't actually envisage a free-flying balloon - it would have to be tethered and have the ability to be raised and lowered on demand.

Spacevisitor: And I assume they did need really many balloons and ropes because I expect that they could easy be damaged during such difficult operations.

SC: I am sure it would be far quicker patching up a balloon than having to rebuild a failed or otherwise collapsed ramp. And the advantage, of course, of using balloons is that you can scale the number of ballons as the project demands.

Spacevisitor: I personally do not have the impression that the images you posted are related with hot air balloons.

SC: I agree - most likely not. But we are obliged to look at and consider every (plausible) possibilty - THAT'S the point. I consider this idea plausible - no more than that.

Spacevisitor: So therefore I will be honest with you, this is the first thread from you which really raised my eyebrows to the maximum

SC: Fair enough. Perhaps I should stick more to the 'WHY' question and avoid the 'HOW' question.

Good to hear from you.

Best regards,

Scott Creighton.

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Well thanks for the reply!
Is that you in the avatar?
Should have expected nothing less!
Hot air ballon, seems appropriate.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

no the stones were cut into large balls then rolled into place then cut to block size.

thats what the circle provides in the hieroglyph

delete

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Hello Spacevisitor,

Nice to hear from you again - it has been a while.

Spacevisitor: Hi Scott, I cannot imagine myself in any way that they did use hot air balloons for that?

SC: I am not saying here that this is categorically how the ancient Egyptians raised the blocks to build the pyramids. I am merely presenting what I consider a plausible possibility and for us to get nearer to the truth I think we owe it to ourselves to consider and test all (plausible) possibilities. That is all I am doing here and, to be quite honest, it is important that flaws are pointed out and I welcome that. Means I don't send myself down a blind alley for ever and a day!

Hello Scott, thanks for your reply and for me it’s always a pleasure to have a discussion with you.
It has been indeed a while, but that is sorely not because of a lesser interest in ancient Egyptian subjects or your threads.

I realize very well that you are not saying here that this is categorically how the ancient Egyptians raised the blocks to build the pyramids and that it is merely a presentation of what you consider to be a plausible possibility and for us to get nearer to the truth.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Spacevisitor: How and with what where they able to heating the air in those balloons enough and without setting them into fire?

SC: Well I rather suspect you would have to have a kiln of some kind with some kind of stone outlet flue or vent to allow the hot air out and into the balloon opening which may be mounted on a frame a safe distance above the kiln. Since it is a kiln the naked flame (fire) is contained within the kiln and would be less likely to damage the linen fabric of the balloon which would - as stated - be raised higher on a frame.

Well, interesting thought, that could be indeed a solution for that.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Spacevisitor: How strong must those ropes have been to be able to carry the stone blocks and especially the heavy ones so they could hung freely under the balloon?

SC: We can't know unless we try it.

I agree.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

However, we do know the ancient Egyptians made ropes strong enough to haul these very heavy blocks up ramps - which is essentially all the balloon would be doing.

I think that when those block were dragged uphill that way [most likely on wooden beams or such] the ropes could be easely damaged and it would be pretty dangerous?

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

I do not envisage a situation where an actual limestone block is tied directly to the balloon. (See diagrams below for a better understanding as to how I envisage such a system working which is an adaptation of Maureen Clemmons Kite Theory):

I think that using that procedure, the force on the connection points at “skin” of the balloon so to say, where the ropes which dragging the blocks uphill are connected would even be bigger.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Spacevisitor: ...how strong must the balloon itself have been to be able to carry such a heavy weight all together, blocks and ropes and such and especially at the points where the ropes would have been connected with the “skin” of the balloon so to say?

SC: We know the first hot air balloon was made of paper and linen - materials the ancient Egyptians had easy access to. Would such a balloon made of linen be a strong enough fabric that, when filled with hot air, would not tear under its own weight - it's really hard to say without actually testing it.

I wonder if even linen would have been strong enough for such a procedure and if it would be airtight enough to keep the balloon in the air for some time, but we would only know that unless we try it.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Would make a nice project for Discovery Chanel.

No doubt about that.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Spacevisitor: And would the wind if there was any not have been a dangerous factor during the manipulation of the blocks to its final position, again especially during the manipulation of the heavy ones?

SC: As outlined in the images above, I don't actually envisage a free-flying balloon - it would have to be tethered and have the ability to be raised and lowered on demand.

All right, in that case one would expect that the wind would not have that much effect on it.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Spacevisitor: And I assume they did need really many balloons and ropes because I expect that they could easy be damaged during such difficult operations.

SC: I am sure it would be far quicker patching up a balloon than having to rebuild a failed or otherwise collapsed ramp. And the advantage, of course, of using balloons is that you can scale the number of ballons as the project demands.

I agree.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Spacevisitor: I personally do not have the impression that the images you posted are related with hot air balloons.

SC: I agree - most likely not. But we are obliged to look at and consider every (plausible) possibilty - THAT'S the point. I consider this idea plausible - no more than that.

I agree.

Originally posted by Scott Creighton

Spacevisitor: So therefore I will be honest with you, this is the first thread from you which really raised my eyebrows to the maximum

SC: Fair enough. Perhaps I should stick more to the 'WHY' question and avoid the 'HOW' question.

Well, there is nothing wrong with what you did or do, because in order to try to find out how it was really done one must look to all the possible options.

It’s always good to hear from you too.

regards

I thought it was a good idea myself

Original and more plausible then some suggestions I've heard thrown around! I like the idea of Ancient Egyptians going about in Balloons

Hot air balloons? Really? Imagine the reinforced ropes need to fight the basic laws of gravity? Who in their right mind would want to stand below it and try to put the stones in place?

Sheesh

I could see balloons being utilized as an assisted lift apparatus. Mixed with some variation of a ramp concept (as pictured in the diagram) and with human/animal labor - balloons could have been very helpful in pulling blocks up a highly inclined surface.

So as an augmentation to other sources of lift, it seems like a credible concept to me.

reply to post by midicon


Hello Midicon,

Apologies for delay in responding to your post.

Midicon: What's wrong with the inner ramp theory?

SC: To be honest I initially refrained from responding to your post because you were asking me to comment on another theory rather than the theory presented in the OP. I have found in the past that such situations can often be counter-productive and ultimately detracts from the main thrust of the thread. I do believe Houdin's Inner Ramp Theory has been discussed elsewhere here on ATS.

But for what it's worth and since you asked, I personally like the Houdin inner ramp theory. I'm not sure if it is absolutely the answer - further evidence might help to settle the issue once and for all. In the interim, whilst the jury's still out so to speak, I see no harm in continuing to probe the question and offer other plausible possibilities.

Kind regards,

Scott Creighton

reply to post by Scott Creighton

Sorry Scott, thanks for replying.
I was just asking why the inner ramp theory isn't plausible. I thought you had maybe reasons against it, hence the ballon theory.
Having said that, I do think the balloon idea is a good shot at the Dendera reliefs.
I maybe should read a little more about them as I thought their meaning had been more or less explained by mainstream egyptology.
I don't see why hot air ballons couldn't have been used in the past, not perhaps for pyramid building though.
The 'technological knowledge' required is after all very basic.

Regards, Midicon.

reply to post by theAymen

I perhaps should have said 'shout'! Meaning if you have an an idea then it's up to you if you want to divulge it.
I think you gave a hint of it on another thread. Something to do with sand and shafts?
I could be wrong of course.
If you have an idea that you think is 'novel' why don't you use google and see if it is indeed so.
And lastly I'm not Scott, I think you have mixed us up!
I await with interest, although it may be off topic.

Regards Midicon.

How dumb am I? Scotty=Scottish!

large stones make perfect balloon anchors

This is a good idea but i highly doubt that they used balloons... could you even imagine the size of balloon that would be needed? Im sorry but I highly doubt it..

Hi Scott,

Your theory is a novel idea, but I see it as being far too impractical to put in use. I can't address the symbolism of Egyptian art (winged mirrors, for instance) since I lack the education of an Egyptologist, but I think I can address some of the basic mechanics of your theory.

To begin with, without a gondola-mounted burner, the balloons wouldn't remain aloft very long, and the action of refilling them with hot air would be far too cumbersome and distracting when the overall goal is to lift stone blocks up the pyramid. With all the problems that come with handling a balloon, and the fact that wind direction and weather now become factors, a balloon would only have slowed them down.

A major problem with this theory is how do you attach a 2.5 ton block to any length of rope to drag it up the side of the pyramid. This is a similar problem exposed in Franz Löhner's theory (posted here) - the lengthy ropes needed to make it work. The longer the rope, the more prone it becomes to breakage. A broken rope would have turned the stone, in mid-lift, into a deadly missile aimed to the workers below. Additionally, with your theory, the weight of the rope would also have to be factored in, along with friction, from dragging the stone block up the side of the pyramid. You're not lifting just 2.5 tons, you're lifting 2.5 tons plus weight of rope plus a coefficient of friction.

When it comes to attaching a rope to a stone block, the Egyptians relied on stone bosses, left on the block for that purpose, then chiseled off after the block was in place. A block over the King's chamber portcullis still shows such a boss. This was how Greeks also attached their ropes to blocks. The downside is this isn't a very firm way to affix a length of rope to a block. One slippage and block tumbles free. So to attach ropes to a block for your theory or Löhner's theory would mean practically swaddling the block in rope and knots, then leaving yourself an anchor to attach it to your lifting mechanism - while avoiding abrading the rope at the edges as it's being dragged around. None of these methods sound very practical.

Your images also seem to depict ropes looping through pulleys, or at least a "rope-roll" ala Löhner, and here again friction would become a big factor. I think what you would have ended up with is a very lengthy, heavy course Egyptian rope looped though a number of pulleys attached to a very heavy weight, a balloon attached at the end of it all (assuming they could get such a thing aloft), and none of it going anywhere due to friction.

Your theory also would imply that the majority of the time stone blocks were being moved about in the traditional sense, dragging and levering them into place. With Andrzej Bochnacki theory (also posted here), this is the same method used when lifting the blocks, so the same skill sets are being employed. Your method would require blocks to be deposited near the "balloon lift" by traditional means (dragging, levering) then switched over to the rope/pulley/balloon lift technique to get them up the pyramid face, then switching back to the traditional means of transport (dragging and levering). I see this as adding to the confusion among workers and overly complicating the transportation of stone. With Bochnacki theory, which closely matches Herodotus' description (albeit 2,000 years after the fact), the same skills are used throughout the entire process of transporting the stones and lifting them into place. Simple dragging the levering into place. You could easily have dozens or teams (or multiple dozens) lifting blocks up the face of the pyramid ala Herodotus/Bochnacki's method for one of your balloon lifts.

I think a combination of balloon, rope, pulley, mud, pivot points, rolling logs, and slave labor would be the most feasible approach. Why limit yourself to one means if many combined can accomplish the task faster and easier.