What Would You Do To Rescue The American Middle Class?

I recently started a thread addressing the need to restructure the way our minimum wage laws work in this country and I soon realized that my thread should have been much broader in it's scope and this new thread is a result of that realization.

So I ask, What steps would you take to rescue our middle class? Here are a few of my ideas;

Minimum Wage; I believe that the minimum wage paid by any company operating in America should be correlated with the highest wage paid by that company. Thirty years ago, the CEO to employee pay ratio was around 40 to 1. Today that ratio has grown to over 300 to 1, to the detriment of working middle class americans. Trickle down economics is currently in full effect and if something isn't done to reverse the trend, middle class America is doomed. Employers who refuse to pay a "living wage" to their workforce, who despite full employment still qualify for social services because they have a below poverty level income, are passing these cost on to the taxpayers while they reap the "profits" off the top.

A more in depth description of my views regarding minimum wage can be viewed in my earlier thread and subsequent post here; www.abovetopsecret.com...

Healthcare; I believe that the best approach to healthcare is to adopt a "single payer, not for profit" system where every working american is paying their fair share and no one goes bankrupt because of an illness. IMO, Medicare for all is the only realistic solution. Employers who do not furnish healthcare to their workers are again passing off that portion of the cost needed to maintain a healthy, reliable workforce, on to the american taxpayer.

This just dawned on me, maybe that's how they morphed the CEO to employee pay ratio up to 300 to 1, by incrementally passing on the true cost of their labor to the taxpaying public.

Illegal Immigration; IMO, this is a problem that must be addressed and the sooner, the better. I believe that the root of this problem, or should I say the head of this snake, is actually nowhere near our borders but rather intwined in our society. Illegals don't come to America to see the Grand Canyon or to take their kids to Disney World, they come here for jobs. As long as there is a demand for slave labor, they will come. So the real question becomes; Who are the slave labor employers that are hiring them and why are they not being held accountable? There's a great documentary entitled "Food Inc." that addresses certain aspects of this issue and it can be viewed here; www.youtube.com...

I could be wrong but I see only one way to permanently fix this problem. People who employ illegal immigrants must be held accountable and I'm not talking about fines, I'm talking about mandatory jail time for those found guilty. Although, before we can hold employers accountable, we have to furnish a reliable method by which they can determine the legal status of prospective employees. As we all know, all of the current forms of identification can be easily faked or forged, that's why identity theft happens everyday in this country. This means that we either need to create a national biometric ID card or we need to consider incorporating some form of biometric identification, like fingerprints, into one of our current forms of ID like social security cards. The employer can then scan the card's chip to insure that the individual holding the card is indeed the person legally entitled to employment. At this point, we can begin holding those responsible for employing illegals accountable. As soon as illegal immigrants realize that they cannot get a job in the U.S. without going through the proper channels and acquiring legal status, I feel confident that the vast majority of them will do so. It's a lot cheaper than attempting to round them up and deport them too. Last I heard, the estimated cost for doing so was around $20,000.00 per illegal.

Outsourcing & Free Trade; IMO, the term 'Free Trade" is nothing more than an attractive sounding name attached to legislation that in reality is an open invitation for corporations to not only outsource, but to completely relocate their operations outside of the U.S.. Outsourcing was the fad in the beginning, when the lack of a trade guarantee was just enough to keep U.S. corps. from totally relocating their manufacturing base. Once they got NAFTA enacted and China was awarded with "Permanent Most Favored Trading Status," the race was on. Goodbye America, hello profit.

I believe that the U.S. should adopt legislation that mandates that goods manufactured for sale in America should be made in America with american workers to the largest extent possible. "Free Trade" should only be applicable to raw materials. Any refined or manufactured goods that are imported should be taxed to offset the economic impact felt by american workers when jobs are sent overseas. The U.N. or W.T.O. should adopt the same policy as it would insure longevity and viability to the manufacturing base of each nation's emerging economy. Otherwise, as soon as that nation's standard of living gets to high, corporations will move on to the next developing third world country that is open for exploit leaving a trail of destroyed economies in their path. Legislation of this type would force companies to sell their products in the same economies they were created in and help to insure that the depressed economy of one nation is not utilized to bring down that of another.

Tax Structure; I think that everyone will agree that our tax system here in America is screwed up. The question is, how to fix it? I'm not a tax expert but I believe that the most important thing to keep in mind when contemplating the restructuring of our system is, "Simplicity." I'm kinda leaning towards a national sales tax on all non life sustaining goods with exemptions for those living below poverty level. I believe that almost every state has a comptroller in place who could collect the tax revenue and submit it to the federal government without the need for the IRS bureaucracy and the vast resources needed to fund it. The savings alone are worthy of investigating. I'm sure that some of you have other ideas and I'm eager to hear them.

Campaign Finance Reform & Lobbying; This is another area where I think that everyone will be in agreement that our current system is screwed up and needs fixing. The recent supreme court ruling with respect to "Citizens United" has only added to the mess and I'm not convinced that we shouldn't examine the possibility of creating a method in which justices can be removed from the court due to violation of their oath to not change or override previous supreme court case precedence. That said, as long as it's the law of the land, we must demand full disclosure of all political donations without exception. Even this is not going to stop undue influence from foreigners and multi-national corporations into our political process. We really need to reverse that ruling. I think the only answer is to adopt publicly financed campaigns where candidates are funded equally and debates are the name of the game. All federally licensed networks should be required to furnish equal air time for those debates as a condition of licensing.

IMO, the lobbying of congress, while in session, should be outlawed. Lobbying during recess should be limited to individual voters and no paid lobbyist should ever be allowed influence a congressman. The average american does not have the time or money to go back and forth to Washington, D.C. to explain their needs and concerns to their representative. At best, they hope to get his/her ear for a minute or two while they are in their home districts during recess. Well corporations and wealthy individuals are not so limited. They can afford to hire a lobbyist to camp out at the congressman's office door which boils down to "constant access." Under this system, the needs and concerns of common voters are nothing more than obscure pipe dreams that will seldom see the light of day due to the fact that they are being overshadowed by wealthy special interest. Outlawing paid lobbying is the only way I see of reacquainting our representatives with the power of the american voter and it's the only way that the views of the average voter will ever be given serious consideration by our legislators.

Those are some of the things I would do and I'm sure that many of you have other ideas as well. So, What would you do?

RESET ALL THEIR CREDIT TO 800 AND WATCH THE ECONOMY "BOOM" FROM ALL THE NEW CREDIT AND SPENDING.

2ND

reply to post by Flatfish


Excellent post Flatfish!! S&F for you my friend. I agree with most of what you're saying and would like to address each point and and some of my own thoughts as well.

1) Minimum Wage - I find your idea interesting, but one thing you don't seem to take into consideration when tying the wage to the highest paid wage in the company is that with a higher wage comes more responsiblity and risk. That's why a lot of people get paid the big bucks. They put their necks on the line so that the company can continue to produce and have employees. If they fail, they're gone. I do think the goverment should put an end to golden parachutes, especially when a company fails.

2) Healthcare - Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Enough is enough when it comes to our goverment subsidizing everything. Many will get sicker. Many will die. (boom in the funeral home business?). It is necessary. It should also wake up everyone to the fact the you have to be responsible for your health (among other things). Tough love. Now, for those whose employers don't offer healthcare, Health Savings Accounts would be mandatory. You have to save for when you get sick. The HSA program would be administered by a the Federal government, who would, in turn, negotiate rates with all providers. Each year you put in X amount of dollars. If you run out of money, financing options are available (with extremely low interest). If you don't use all of your money in a calendar year, it goes to the Federal government (kind of like a cafeteria plan or flex spend account). For employers that do pay for insurance, your are still required to have an HSA but you will have the insurance as well. All co-pays/dr's visits/etc. come out of the HSA until it's used up, then the insurance kicks in. Any money left in HSA's that is unused also goes to the Federal government

3) Illegal Immigration - All illegals must leave. Straight up. Round'em up and send'em back. Put that U.S. Army at the border. If a company jacks up the cost of their goods because they no longer have cheap labor, then don't buy from them. Everything will even out in about 10 years. The businesses that did the right things will still be in business. Those that didn't will be gone or will have scaled back. I agree with you completely that those who hire illegals should be dealt with sternly.

4) Outsourcing and Free Trade - I haven't thought enough about this to make an educated comment, but I like what you're saying

5) Tax Structure - Flat tax time baby. 27% National Sales Tax. Additionally a "sin" tax on things that are known to be "bad". We're talking everything from alcohol to soft drinks to twinkies. If it isn't deemed healthy or neutral by a respected medical body then it's taxed additionally. Abolish personal income tax at the state and Federal levels. Keep corporate tax structures the same.

6) Campaign Finance Reform & Lobbying - TV and radio have to get equal time to all candidates straight up out of their own pockets like you said. Only individuals can donate to campaigns. Period. No government funds should go to any candidate. With lobbying, I would abolish it completely. If "industry" would like to get something pushed through, then the CEO of Corp X needs to bring his happy butt up to the Hill and see if he/she can get someone to listen.

Here are some things I would like to add:

1) Welfare reform - If you are accepting assistance from the government of these United States, then you are the property of the government...just like a soldier. We will pay you, cloth you, feed you, house you and educate you for 2 years, that's it. You will work for minimum wage or something there abouts while you are with us. You will be drug tested. Three strikes on that or if you are convicted of any one felony or three misdemeanors and you're gone. Don't like it, then get the heck off welfare. You may use the Welfare system 3 times in your life.

2) Voting - All voting will be digital and will be overseen by a federal panel that consists of at least a mix of security experts, software engineers, CPA's, and normal folks. This panel will be in charge of real-time monitoring of the voting stations at all precincts at the local, state and federal level. It will change every 2 years.

That's all I've got. Thanks for a good thought-provoking thread!

Stop outsourcing jobs to countries with extreme cheap labour by putting significant tax on foreign goods from those countries especially those which do not respect proper employee rights and environment (that includes China).

Stop illegal immigration and limit legal immigration so work cost would not decrease due to incentive of immigrants to work for relatively very low wages, thus decreasing work value for all.

I think a payroll tax relief program for all the American's still working would be a good idea. Screw the stimulus plans. Give the people still working a break and let them take home a full paycheck for once. Im sorry but these people living off the system don't need anymore help. They make more on unemployment than I do working a full time job.

reply to post by JAY1980

Not sure about the US specifically, however I find it interesting that the middle class always immediately blames the lower class for their woes.
Meanwhile they have an upper class with all kinds of tax benefits that sucks everybody dry.
The only people getting richer are the elites and the super-rich.
It's time the middle class started pointing fingers upwards, and not just at even more disadvantged people beneath them.

This issue is so involved and there are so many factors involved that, as a non-professional economist, my best guess is...

A LOT of gasoline and some matches. Scrap the tax codes, trade law, bank structure, Fed, Wall Street - all of it, and start over with a more tenable system.

Great innovation and thought in your post, but I do disagree with one of the posters.
My thoughts

Minimum Wage- Deffinetly needs to be higher. When a gallon of milk is 4$ and gas almost at 3$ a gallon its hard to survive with the wage so low! Im paid 9.50 an hour I make about 1200$ a month, I have student loans that I pay, rent, lights, cable, daycare, my car payment and insurance...by the end of the month Im asking my mom for 50$ for food. Or selling iteams, or taking my childs old toys and clothes to baby consignment shops for some extra cash to buy food. I apparently make to much for foodstamps! (Yea right!) I also think that cooperations need to bring their prices down on EVERYTHING! From food to gas, to home electronics, clothes, EVERYTHING must go down even if its by 2 or 3 dollars. Yes they will lose profits, but they have lost so many employees it should even itself out! WE ARE IN A RECESSION PEOPLE!! and if they lower the cost of their products more people can afford them so their sales will look better.

Healthcare - To the gentleman that said medicare and medicaid must go, is full of S*IT.... you can not get rid of medicare and medicaid. Sorry bro it aint gonna happen, and it shouldnt happen. You cant plan on getting sick! My father died of cancer and if it wasnt for his V. A benifits it scares me to think of how much MORE he would of had to suffer! My child is on medicaid, does that make me a bad parent? Does that make me a lazy scumball who cant take care of my kid properly????! Why should my 2 year old suffer because I cant afford health care? In a perfect world Health care would be free, they tax everything else, might as well make a health care tax. Even in a recession we are still the most richest country in the world with thousands and thousands of millionaires and even some BILLIONAIRES that live here,There should be no reason anyone has to suffer an illness simply because they can not afford it, and no body should have to go hungry in a country like ours!! Besides if the government doesnt fix the health care situation soon, they will lose more and more of thier prescious tax payers that foot the bill for everything this country has from illnesses that COULD of been prevented. When you get sick with cancer and need radiation or surgery and your in the hospital for lets say a week, 2 weeks, HELL EVEN 3 WEEKS, do you know how much that can cost?! Theres no way you can pay your living expenses, save for your childs education, or wedding... your retirement AND for when you get sick!?Thats hogwash! My company got rid of their health insurance right before my 90 day probationary periode was up... im already swimming in debt, the only thing that scares me is, if I die who will take care of my kid??

Outsourcing- They should penalize any company that outsources their company, and lets see how many stay here in the good ol U. S of A!

Bail out- I dont believe we should of EVER bailed out the banks and other institutions. How can you fix a problem at the top?? You must first fix the foundation!! MEANING people in the lower middle class.We are the ones that keep this country moving! For instances there are over 300 million americans, now lets weed out some of those, Take away the illegals,11.1 million, now lets take away from anyone under the age of 21 give or take about 100,000,000 at (30% of us pop as of 2010) ok so now we have elimanated 111,100,000 people from the 300,000,000 people that leaves us with 188,900,000 people. Now Oct 3 2008 the united states government ROBBED the CITIZENS of OUR TAX PAYING DOLLARS TO BAIL OUT these IRRESPONSIBLE COMPANIES at a cost of 700 BILLION DOLLARS!! Think about this folks!! Take Every Responsible AMERICAN who falls under these categories, 1-Married,with an income of 50,000$/ year and atleast one child or 2-Married with an income of 65,000$/year with 2 or more children or 3-Any PERSONS over the age of 21 with an annual income of 10,000$/year would qualify for a "Bail Out" so to speak. If you fall under those 3 categories then you would recieve xxx amount of dollars per category. For example category 1- would recieve 50,000$ That MUST be spent to either pay off credit card debt, pay off cars, and/or put a good amount towards BUYING a home or PAYING DOWN your home, or paying off back student loans. 2- would recieve 40,000 and MUST be spent for the reasons listed above, and category 3- would recieve 20,000$ to pay for student loans, credit card debt, pay off cars, or even put money down towards their own home, seeming as most 21 year olds who make atleast 10,000$/ year are in school and working part time. I would assume that with a plan like that, that it would of saved freddie mac, and salley mae, I would assume that it would of saved alot of banks with the housing market, I would assume it would of saved alot of peoples credit as well as the car companies. Now I dont know the logistics of it all but I do think a plan like that would have helped more then just GIVING our money to these companies who went on golf and spa weekend vacations, or used the money to give exec's 100 million $ perks!! THEY GOT PERKS FROM OUR MONEY WHILE WE ARE LOSING OUR HOMES!! AND THE BANKS COULD CARELESS!! BECAUSE THEY CAN RIGHT THE LOSS OFF AND USE IT TO THIER TAX BENIFETS!!!

Jails and inmates-If you commited a murder and their is dna evidence, I believe you should be givin the needle the day of your court hearing. Why waste money on feeding and housing a killer?? If you use a firearm or a knife or any object that can inflict harm on someone in a robbery or car jacking I believe you are as bad as a terriorist for causing terror to a persons life, and should be given the needle! That goes for rapist as well, anyone who inflicts terror in someones life should be given the needle no if ands or BUTS about it, our Society is getting out of control!! We need to start weeding out and getting rid of the psycho's. Survival of the fittest correct? Why would we want these crazies running around and making baby crazies?! Even an animal will eat their young if it is sick..correct??

reply to post by StarrGazer25


Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with most everything you said and I really agree with your alternative to the "bail outs." Too bad we can't get a "do over" on that one.

The only thing I disagree with is administering the death penalty. I didn't always feel this way but I do now and I'll tell you why.

First, recently there has been an alarming number of death row inmates freed, based NOT on the fact that DNA evidence had beed recovered which proved their innocence, but based on the fact that new technological advances in DNA research had enabled someone to prove their innocence with DNA evidence already on file. Who knows what advances will come tomorrow and who may be proven innocent because of them.

Secondly, I really hate putting anyone in the position of having to administer a death penalty to another human being. I truly believe that this type of thing can be destructive to the soul and who am I to ask someone else to carry out this punishment and live with the guilt, especially if someone they put to death later proves to be innocent.

Lastly, according to everything I've read regarding the issue of capital punishment, when appeals are taken into consideration, believe it or not, it's cheaper to imprison them for life. I would be afraid to remove the appeals process from our justice system as it's the only form of checks and balances within the system.

I think we could avoid a lot of our problems with respect to repeat offenders if "life in prison" meant "LIFE IN PRISON," if you know what I mean.

reply to post by bluegrassconspirator


Thanks for the response and I'm glad that the thread got you thinking. However, I would like to make a few points if I may.

First, I have no problem with risk and responsibility and I don't believe that most workers do either. A frontline soldier takes much more risk than a general in the rear yet the pay hardly compares. Workers at the BP refinery in Texas City, TX. risk and gave their lives in the performance of their jobs, cops do it all the time, coal miners do it every time they enter a mine. Do you see where I'm going with this? When you say risk, do you mean life and limb or do you just mean money? One thing I worked hard to instill in my children it not to fall so in love with money that you value it above all else. No matter how broke you get, you can always make more money while the same is not true with regards to your health.

IMO, It's a luxury to only have to risk money in one's quest for survival and not something that should be idolized.

Second, I believe that Medicare and Medicaid are necessary programs that we cannot afford to eliminate as they fulfill a huge need in our society and I think that "medical savings accounts" are just not realistic. We're talking about people who can't afford food and housing, how in the hell are they going to put money away in a MSA? They're going to end up sick with no money in savings and we are going to foot the bill anyway. I just don't think that MSA's will produce the intended results.

The biggest problem I see with Medicare and Medicaid is the fraud and we have to do something now to address this dilemma. Unfortunately, fraud seems to be the name of the game now days when it comes to providing services under these programs and especially when bidding on government contracts. It's high time that we held those responsible for orchestrating the fraud accountable for their actions. No fines as they amount to a slap on the wrist to the wealthy, mandatory jail time only.

When it comes to Illegal immigration, I know how you feel but like I said previously, it would cost the american taxpayer a fortune to perform the "roundup." I would rather create the legal incentives to entice the illegals to go home on their dime, if you know what I mean.

The only other thing I would comment on is the 3 time limit for welfare assistance. It reminds me of lifetime maximums on health insurance policies, something we just got rid of yesterday. I just hate setting a limit when god only know what may happen to any of us in the future.

"There, but for the grace of god, go I"

The rest of it, I pretty much agree with. Thanks again.

The best thing to do is vote against the democrats.

reply to post by Fromabove


At this point, with all wing nuts taking over the republican party, the democrats may very well be our only salvation.

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by Fromabove

 

At this point, with all wing nuts taking over the republican party, the democrats may very well be our only salvation.

This is interesting. When you say "wingnuts" , what exactly are the points to show the nut. Just saying it does't make it so. The democrats have many robot voters who simply repeat the mantra when instructed to do so.

If salvation means more of what they did to us for the past two years, I'll stay republican thankyou.

reply to post by bluegrassconspirator


I agree with some points you made but Medicare and Medicaid are important to children who have no say in how much money they have or if their parents can support them. One day after you retire you will heavily rely on Medicare/Medicaid unless you are one of the rich tyrants who run the companies that is assisting in draining the economy. a 27% Sales tax rate is just ridiculous....If someone make 40,000 a year...after buying items they'd spend over 10,000 in taxes alone just to survive...that is a lot more than taken from income tax (both federal and state combined) plus the Federal Government can't make any money at all with the abolition of income tax...sales taxes are exclusive to states and cities/counties. Some states don't even tax for sales taxes. I do however agree with the illegal immigrants..not do they just take jobs that american citizens could have but with the money they make, the majority of it leaves our country and goes back to their own...it even works that way with legal immigrants.

Being that every nation in the world is in debt to one another...that leaves me wondering in debt to who? the federal reserve...which we need to squash...every tax payer pays this bank to make money for us...

reply to post by Fromabove


Do you know much about politics? Republicans love to spend money internationally and believe in protecting only big businesses which is where millions a year goes towards bonuses and incentives to the CEOs, board of directors and right back to the government. After all this recession came from a Republican as did the Great Depression.

Originally posted by OmiOra
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Do you know much about politics? Republicans love to spend money internationally and believe in protecting only big businesses which is where millions a year goes towards bonuses and incentives to the CEOs, board of directors and right back to the government. After all this recession came from a Republican as did the Great Depression.

Recession came from both democrats (Clintons manipulation of hypo markets) and republicans (bad FED policy - Alan Greenspan). Both are to blame, but more Clinton I think - subprime mortgage housing bubble is what started it all).

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by StarrGazer25

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with most everything you said and I really agree with your alternative to the "bail outs." Too bad we can't get a "do over" on that one.

The only thing I disagree with is administering the death penalty. I didn't always feel this way but I do now and I'll tell you why.

First, recently there has been an alarming number of death row inmates freed, based NOT on the fact that DNA evidence had beed recovered which proved their innocence, but based on the fact that new technological advances in DNA research had enabled someone to prove their innocence with DNA evidence already on file. Who knows what advances will come tomorrow and who may be proven innocent because of them.

Secondly, I really hate putting anyone in the position of having to administer a death penalty to another human being. I truly believe that this type of thing can be destructive to the soul and who am I to ask someone else to carry out this punishment and live with the guilt, especially if someone they put to death later proves to be innocent.

Lastly, according to everything I've read regarding the issue of capital punishment, when appeals are taken into consideration, believe it or not, it's cheaper to imprison them for life. I would be afraid to remove the appeals process from our justice system as it's the only form of checks and balances within the system.

I think we could avoid a lot of our problems with respect to repeat offenders if "life in prison" meant "LIFE IN PRISON," if you know what I mean.

Yes I am sure that it takes a toll on a person spiritually who has to take a person life due to captial punishment, but does that stop our military from sending over our young boys 18 19 20 21 years old to fight and kill in an unjust war? No It does not, and yes there will be advancement in technology that may other wise prove a so called killer innocent, but the way I see it,WE MUST START making EXAMPLES out of criminals!! If a women points you out as the man that raped her and the sperm matches you, then yes I do believe you should be given the needle! If you break into a persons home in the middle off the night and kill the husband and wife just to take a few thousand dollars in jewlery and cash, you should be givin the needle, if you beat an elderly person and snatch their purse or wallet you should be given the needle, If you beat a child who can not defend itself you should be given the needle, anyway shape or form that a person causes TERROR to anothers person life, should have the act of WAR on them, and therefor have no mercy. and maybe ...just MAYBE these lil hoodlums that are running around in todays generation will think twice before such actions. Its a shame that society has turned out the way it has, but it will only get worse if we do not find a way to correct it. and then maybe we could start shutting down some prisons due to lack of inmates, and then our tax paying dollars could be used for something else. I want to know where over 3.1 trillion dollars went, I saw video weather the senate was breaking bad on a governement offical saying, "Where did 3.1 trillion dollars go sir in the last 3 years?" and the man said "Im not quite sure" and the senate guy said to him, "You mean to tell me as you stand here today sir as a represenative you can not tell me where 3.1 trillion dollars went? But you ask for more government grants? May I ask for what sir?" and the guy said, "For classified reasons sir, for department of deffense." and the senate guy told him, "No, we can not give you anymore money if you can not tell us where 3.1 trillion dollars went." and then the video ended. They tax the hell out of the lottery, where is all that money going?! They said it would go to schools, but we all know thats not where its going.... so there is plenty of money going around, the government is just being shady!!

reply to post by Fromabove


What wing nuts, you ask? How about Sharon Angle who was trying to scare voters by making up a story about headless corpses in the Arizona desert. Or, how about Christie O'Donnell's attempt to convince voters that our scientist are developing mice with fully functioning human brains or that evolution was a myth. Then there is good ole Sarah Palin who apparently is so anti technology that she writes talking points, or should I say slogans, on the palm of her hand as opposed to pencil and paper or god forbid, a teleprompter. Not to mention the hypocrisy she demonstrates when harping about the so called "socialistic policies" of Barack Obama when she was the half governor of the most socialistic state in the union as stated in the following article;

www.businessinsider.com...

You might want to check out the other nine states on the list too as the vast majority of them are "red" states.

The list wouldn't be complete without listing at least a few of "wing nut" leaders like Dick Armey, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. You remember him don't you? He's the "druster" guy who thinks it's Wikipedia's job to fact check the information on it's site so that people like him won't make an ass out of themselves by repeating it on air before checking the facts for himself.

Oh yeah, let's not forget John Boehner, the orange guy from Ohio, (another one of the top 10 socialist states,) who boast that he represents the humbled party of "new ideas" when he can't seem articulate a single one to the american public. I guess that's because they haven't been sloganized yet.

I could go on and on but really, need I say more?

reply to post by Maslo


Bill Clinton did some bad things but starting this recession was not one of them unless of course, you're counting the signing of NAFTA into law and awarding China with Permanent Most Favored Trading Status. Both of which I agree were the tools that allowed outsourcing to grow to a whole new level and leading to the total relocation of the american manufacturing base.

But then, both of these things were done during the last 6 years of the Clinton administration, a time in which the republican party controlled both houses of congress.

According to some like Bill Maher, Bill Clinton actually got a lot accomplished during his term. In 8 short years he managed to balance the budget, create a surplus and still found the time to redefine the term "sexual relations" as we know it.

reply to post by StarrGazer25


Like I said before, I totally understand your feelings on capital punishment and I used to be right on track with your line of reasoning in that regard. I'm now of the opinion, that for the type of criminals you're referring to, a death sentence may indeed be the easy way out. IMO, life in prison with no possibility of parole is a harsher sentence than the needle.

Over time, I've become a little less focused on the death penalty and more concerned with the total absence of accountability with regards to white collar crimes.

These are crimes that affect millions of people and it has become apparent to me that, if you commit a crime and you have money, we will impose a fine as your punishment but if you're poor, the punishment is "go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.00." Our entire justice system is screwed up. We are putting people in jail for smoking weed and allowing people that rob the pension funds of millions to walk the streets.