Asia wary as China asserts territorial ambitions

Well it has begun...

China is now flexing it's muscle. The latest flap with Japan is only the latest but most certainly not the last issue. Growing concern in Asia as a whole over the latest issue has raised the hairs on the back of the necks of other countries in the region.

Source

China has a long list of disputes over land and sea, including swathes of the Himalayan plateau also claimed by India, and the islets and reefs of the Spratlys chain staked out by Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d68b38b991d2.gif[/atsimg]

Thanks Daddybare for the image of the disputed area. In this modern day and age with well establish maritime laws and internationally agreed to and accepted maritime guidelines, China wants to stick to the claims outlined in the above image?

This next excerpt was rather shocking.

India is also watchful over China's growing presence, particularly its heavy investment in ports being built in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Pakistan, seen as part of its ambitions for a bluewater naval fleet. Some regional nations, particularly Vietnam which fought a brief but deadly 1998 naval battle with China in the South China Sea, have welcomed the new US willingness to act as a counterweight to Beijing.

Now you know some Asian nations are apprehensive about China's rise when countries like Vietnam welcome US involvement. I don't know where this is headed but we are in a different ball game boys and girls

It's only a matter of time. I thought it might be later, but with current economic conditions in Europe and here at home, they might be thinking now is the time. Creating a Naval fleet from scratch would take some time, and UDTs could greatly hinder that process.

Still, I'm more afraid of the destructive force our own leadership represents than I am of Chinese hordes.

This area flares up on occasion and then quites back down. China has to appear to be a great power to its people so you will hear a more militant tone on issues like this. It will amount to little however. You have to look at things from Chinas position. China has large Army about 3 million with reserves activated. Around them they have all nations with the exception North Korea that they have had at the very least border conflicts with. Those nations armies are also large, India alone with reserves can field an Army just as large as China. Then you also have Russia with a million men, Vietnam with a half million active and almost 5 milllion with reserves, South Korea with over 8 million with reserves on its borders. You also have off its coasts Japan a nation with high tech and a military past that would be huge threat should it choose militerise, you also have ASEAN with the Phillipines, Indonesia, Myammar, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia, Brunie and Vietnam again. And of course China also has its nemesis Taiwan who has enough of a military to give China pause alone. China also of course has to deal with the United States who has a navy that could dominate it.

So what do I conclude from all this? China will talk loud and then do nothing as they normally do. The other Asian states militaries will use Chinas talk to try and get new toys with different degrees of success. The problem for China is this. If they were to try and builld a modern blue water navy they would start a huge arms race in the region to counter them. Japan, India, Russia, South Korea and ASEAN would all be able to field large modern fleets if pushed to it and that would make things for China very difficult not to mention that you would see an expansion of the USN as well. I do not expect China to take this route.

reply to post by MrSpad


I starred your reply becuase it was very well written and informative but, you left out the territorial waters that China is claiming which cut way too close to many of the countries you mentioned that supposedly are a possible threat to China. Maybe if China was more realistic about it's territorial water claims then tensions wouldn't be so high?

Would those islands perhaps happen to have large oil deposits under them??? If so, they are worth fighting for in the modern industrial age.

reply to post by pavil


Well the article did mentioned the following...

China insists it has complete sovereignty over the Spratly and Paracel islands in the South China Sea, a region rich in oil, gas and fisheries, as well as a strategic waterway linking East Asia with Europe and the Middle East.China insists it has complete sovereignty over the Spratly and Paracel islands in the South China Sea, a region rich in oil, gas and fisheries, as well as a strategic waterway linking East Asia with Europe and the Middle East.

So if oil is worth fighting for then you are saying the gulf wars are legitimate? If so I'm sure there are many here at ATS who would disagree with you.

www.nytimes.com...

thought this was relevent to the discussion as the implications are interesting
a quote from page two Jeff Green, a Washington lobbyist for rare earth processors in the United States, Britain, Canada and Australia, said that China and Japan were the only two sources for the initial, semiprocessed blocks of rare earth magnetic material. If Japan runs out of rare earths from China — and Japanese companies have been stockpiling in the last two years — then the United States will have to buy the semiprocessed blocks directly from China, he said.

“We are going to be 100 percent reliant on the Chinese to make the components for the defense supply chain,” Mr. Green said.

reply to post by KilrathiLG


There were rumors earlier this week that China would limit or stop shipments of Rare Earth exports in retaliation. This article points out the China has denied that story.

China Denies Halting Rare-Earth Exports to Japan

SHANGHAI—China said it hasn't limited export of rare-earth elements to Japan, denying a report that it had halted exports of the materials to its neighbor as retaliation in a territorial dispute.

"China doesn't block rare earth exports to Japan," Chen Rongkai, a spokesman for China's Ministry of Commerce, said Thursday.

doh i hadent seen that one thanks for that

reply to post by KilrathiLG


What I find a tad bit strange is that the US with it's high tech military which relies heavily on those doesn't seem too concerned as of yet. Now either somebody at the Pentagon has dropped the ball OR they have something else up their sleeves where this becomes a non issue.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

So if oil is worth fighting for then you are saying the gulf wars are legitimate? If so I'm sure there are many here at ATS who would disagree with you.

Unless we start getting unlimited energy from pixie dust, oil is worth fighting over. Just wait till the North Pole seafloor grab starts..........

Limited resources are just that....limited.

The gulf wars were not ALL about oil, but if there wasn't oil there, we wouldn't give a rat's #ss about them. Just look at the blind eye most of the world turns towards Africa and all the atrocities that go on there.

reply to post by pavil


Well that's true and the US, Russia and Canada are all part of the few countries who have a hand in that honey pot.

Once China has a decent blue water navy, watch for Taiwan to be the focus. The only reason nothing has been done is the communist have not had a way for an invasion force to be transported, en mass.

They already have the rockets in place along with the electronic systems, air force has been built to a certain extent. They need boats.

The Chinese are not stupid. They are not going to spark a naval conflict over some extra territorial waters. They will instead use their naval power to intimidate and cash in the debt owed to them by many nations in the region to slowly gain what they are seeking.

Just think about it for one second. The United States Navy is still the most powerful naval force in the world. In addition to this you have the Japanese and South Koreans who have strong and cooperative military ties with the United States. The Taiwanese, Vietnamese, and Indians would also be implicated in any territorial grab the Chinese made. To claim the Chinese, despite their rapidly improving and modernizing naval force, could take on all of these nations is utter nonsense and they know it.

Not every thing will erupt in to a war. The only reason any of you think it will is either because you do not understand military strategy and tactics or because the thought of it makes for dramatic doom and gloom forum threads.

reply to post by PETROLCOIN


Well the situation has been escalating. China now has Japanese being held. A TiT for Tat.

...Thread update...

Japan to Release Chinese Trawler Captain Involved in Boat Collision

Japanese prosecutors say they will release a Chinese trawler captain who has been detained since his boat collided with Japanese patrol vessels in disputed waters. The incident enraged China, which retaliated by canceling meetings with Japanese officials and, traders say, halting shipments of essential exports.

reply to post by hinky



If China really was hellbent on taking over Taiwan this December, there isn't much we could do to stop them. It's not a logistical problem, it's a political problem. China wants to absorb Taiwan, not destroy it while taking it over. Sooner or later the political climate will make that a reality, IMO, but that time is still decades off.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You are already witnessing Russia laying claim to more seafloor by trying to claim an underwater ridge as part of Russia's continental shelf.

Can't see them actually being allowed to claim the islands. Lets be honest here those belong to the IMF and World Bank fair and square. They worked for decades to hollow out those nations from the inside out and now that they have they're hardly going to want to give up all that hard work for nothing.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by MrSpad

 

I starred your reply becuase it was very well written and informative but, you left out the territorial waters that China is claiming which cut way too close to many of the countries you mentioned that supposedly are a possible threat to China. Maybe if China was more realistic about it's territorial water claims then tensions wouldn't be so high?

edit on 23-9-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Exactly.

If the U.S. did that we'd "own" Cuba again, and a few other places.