Please explain the justification for the Bush tax cuts

reply to post by bluemooone2


Not production ( jobs) in America as long as higher profits are being made by outsourcing manufacturing.
Higher production in China!

reply to post by dolphinfan


If you have your own business and are paying yourself a huge salary, you really need to structure.!!

Another thing to talk about on this topic is the psychological effect on business owners affects the growth of businesses as well as the formation of new businesses.

If one feels as though all their profits (we are again talking about the 300k / year small business owner) are being taken away to the point where their 80 hour work week nets them less than if they went to work for someone else with a whole lot less stress in their lives, then they will just say “why bother.”

Likewise, if one does not see someone else opening their own business and eventually reaping the rewards of an enhanced lifestyle for all their work (and RISK), no one will be encouraged to open businesses.

Both of these scenarios lead to less jobs. Let these owners keep their rewards and make them feel comfortable with reinvesting them into the businesses and thus hiring more people.

Right now people in business are hoarding their money, afraid to hire people because they are afraid they may need to pony up big taxes and will need the money for that. Just the suggestion that they will be taxed less in the future will raise confidence and lead to reinvestment and growth… which is what you need for jobs.

reply to post by Crakeur


Isn't that what the Bush Tax Cuts were meant for ? A somewhat dubious Economic Formula made Popular during the Reagan Administration , yes ?"

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by bluemooone2

 

Not production ( jobs) in America as long as higher profits are being made by outsourcing manufacturing.
Higher production in China!

It helps everyone OD . Plain an simple. I aggree tho most of what we buy isnt made here . That needs to change.

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


yes and the economy did grow till the housing bouble poped and thats a different topic. imagin where we would be right now with out the cuts. i would say 15% "officel" unemployment

reply to post by OldDragger


It has nothing to do with salary. It has to do with net income of the business which is categorized as personal income. Many small business owners don't pay themselves a "salary" but rather live on a portion of the profits.

Now you might say they should be smarter and structure the accounting of their business a bit differently. That they should play the same game as John Kerry, but what is that saying? The legal and accounting professions/lobbys/interest groups are among the most destructive in the nation.

You want to look at a wealth and value destroying enterprise? Look no further to the large accounting firms. Great business model - they push for further complexities in the tax code and then rape their clients who have no hope of determing how to comply with the new tax laws.

If a flat consumption based tax ultimately cause the elimination of 75% of the professional accountants and tax specialists in the country, that is reason enough to move to that tax structure.

reply to post by JonInMichigan

One of the most common objections to letting the cuts expire for those in the highest tax brackets is that it would hurt small businesses. As Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) recently put it, allowing the cuts to lapse would amount to "a job-killing tax hike on small business during tough economic times." This claim is misleading. If, as proposed, the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire for the highest earners, the vast majority of small businesses will be unaffected. Less than 2 percent of tax returns reporting small-business income are filed by taxpayers in the top two income brackets -- individuals earning more than about $170,000 a year and families earning more than about $210,000 a year. And just as most small businesses aren't owned by people in the top income brackets, most people in the top income brackets don't rely mainly on small-business income: According to the Tax Policy Center, such proceeds make up a majority of income for about 40 percent of households in the top income bracket and a third of households in the second-highest bracket. If the objective is to help small businesses, continuing the Bush tax cuts on high-income taxpayers isn't the way to go -- it would miss more than 98 percent of small-business owners and would primarily help people who don't make most of their money off those businesses.

Source

reply to post by camaro68ss


You know the Old saying ? " Do Not bite the Hand that feeds You ." It seems to me that Wealthy Americans in this Country forgot that bit of Wisdom lately , and will eventually Suffer for it .

reply to post by FlyersFan


Exactly. Liberals look at sources of money, and don't consider how it was created, or even who owns it. To them, it's just a resource to be tapped so they can model society in their image. Liberals also have the propensity to believe that all money-making ventures are inherently evil, and that money can never be made and wealth can never be amassed without some little people being victimized.

Ronald Reagan, when speaking about liberalism, once said "We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one". How true.

The government should tax each and every person the exact same percentage of their income, no matter what that may be. Or, they should tax each and every person the same flat amount. That is the only way taxation will ever be fair. If you work harder, study longer, make greater sacrifices to better your life and amass personal wealth, you should not be punished for that.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

You know the Old saying ? " Do Not bite the Hand that feeds You ." It seems to me that Wealthy Americans in this Country forgot that bit of Wisdom lately , and will eventually Suffer for it .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That goes well with "Let them eat cake".

Why is it that people who hate Bush always go after these tax cuts as if they are a bad thing.

First, there are tax cuts for everyone not just the "rich".

Second, the "rich" are the people who employ all the rest of us, so the more money they have to invest into their businesses the more people get hired to work.

Third, there is nothing wrong in being rich! When did being successful ever become evil? Honestly, I'm no where near "rich" but I do believe in working hard and enjoying the fruits of my labors.

So many times I meet people who hate the "richies" and it all comes down to the fact that they are just jealous, and on top of that, usually they dont want to work hard themselves to build something that might give them fortune. Sadly these people also think the rest of us should give them what they want on a silver plater through programs and services. No wonder they hate the tax cut ideal...it might eat into their piece of the pie.

Stop, griping about the rich people, and work your own butts off to maybe build something that you can pass on to your own children. In short get a job!

Finally, for pete sake why would we not want to give less money to the government? Lower taxes are always a great thing even for the rich...and for the rest of us by the way.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


Great Post , you made an Excellent Point there . Without Investments , we Have NO Economy . On the other hand though , it's Smart Business to treat those who you Employ Humanely considering that they are in some cases the Labor of your Fruits.........

Higher taxes will take more money from the private sector into the government and into the void of national debt, and will only cause more economic decline.

Rich or poor, it really doesn't matter how you look at it anymore.

The US debt and deficit spending are killing what little life there is in the US economy now, may as well finish it off by raising taxes on the rich eh?

What will happen is it will force even more "rich" people out of the country, many have already become "international" or dual citizens, and have relocated their businesses to other locations out of the USA.

Our stupid government will tax, restrict and regulate business and wealth until it no longer exists and what that means is assured 3rd world status for our nation.

Either that is exactly what they want to happen, or they are really so damned stupid that they believe they are doing the right things, health-care, cap and trade, raising taxes on the rich are all going to be job killers, and only further economic decline. Ultimately leaving the majority of Americans dependant on the government, again, maybe that is what they want, but there will be a point where complete collapse will be unstoppable, and it isn't that far off now.

If people don't rise up in mass against the moves this government is making we are all doomed, regardless of your financial status.

Letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the rich is only a small component of a much larger agenda aimed at the "redistribution of wealth", but with the national debt where it is, and with out of control deficit spending the revenue they take in will be sucked into that void before it can be redistributed. A domino effect has already begun, jobs and manufacturing are leaving the country, more and more of our consumer products are being produced in China and elsewhere outside of the USA. We're not the manufacturing giant that we should be, we don't make things anymore, and we are losing jobs at a staggering rate despite official reports.

Get ready people, if they have their way, things are going to get a hell of a lot worse in the near future, and believe it or not, that is an optimistic point of view.

First off the tax cuts are for everyone. Do you not think you can spend your money better than the government? If not, you should just donate more during tax season. I have never met anyone that paid more than they were obligated to. All I hear from left wingers is them whining come tax time, then say more taxes, especially for the rich. The more they take, the more they waste. Letting private citizens keep their hard earned dollars, lets them spend more. Would you rather people give 20 grand to the government to hand out for welfare or let a private citizen spend that 20 grand on a new car. What/where is the value added?

The real question is where do the taxes end? Look out for more "sin" taxes in the future...Soda, sugar salt, grease, just Like the April 1st 2009 sin tax hike.

So it looks like the "greedy" ones are the ones who want your tax dollars for nothing. Instead of cutting and working on a budget, the government always needs more money and will take it wherever they get a chance, especially the Democrats.

reply to post by rogerstigers


Quite frankly, how much is enough taxes for the wealthy to pay in your worldview?? You do realize the the wealthy already pay the bulk the taxes in this country, right?





I just don't get it.......some people want to penalize you for doing well and reaching the "American Dream". It kinda disturbs me. I am finally getting to the lower end of "rich", I've worked my ass off for it, and now I am reaping my rewards for all my effort, time and money I have spent. Why should I have to pay even more in taxes just because I am successful? It just doesn't seem very fair or American to penalize somebody for being "too" successful.

reply to post by Crakeur


Here is the problem with your theory. Lets say someone makes 10 million dollars a year. They get a 5% tax cut on that 10 Million. 10,000,000 X .05 = $500,000. So you are saying that someone who is making 10million a year is going to be able to spend an extra $500,000 on TVs, cars and other things?????

People who are making 1million or more, have basically everything they could want or need. They are not spending that extra income, they are investing it in mutual funds, IRAs or saving it, these things do not create jobs. They only make the rich richer.

Now the flip side is that someone who is making $50,000 a year, sees a 5% drop, will gain an extra $2500 for the year. This person is absolutely spending that extra $2500, because they probably dont have everything they need. They will buy a TV or a car or food, or pay rent or heat, etc. And guess what, there are millions more people making $50,000/yr than there are making $1million a year.

If there are 50million people making $50k/yr and you give them all a 5% tax cut, they will each get $2500. $2500X50million=$125,000,000,000 Thats $125billion!!! and guess what almost all of it is going to get spent.

90% of our working population makes $100k or less per year. If all of these people get a 5% cut, almost all of that money will be put right back into the economy because, these people dont have EVERYTHING they want or need.

That top 10%, or more specifically that top 5% has everything they could ever want and need. They are not going to spend and extra 5% of their income on consumer goods. It just isnt happening. No way,

And as the OP stated, cutting taxes for businesses does not create jobs, this is false. There is no data to suggest that lowering taxes for business does this. Why would a business hire an extra person because they have extra money? Businesses hire extra people when the demand for their product or service increases. And the rich are not fueling this demand. Its the 90% who make under $100k. They are buying more products and services, thus increasing demand for businesses, which requires the business to hire more people to meet that increase in demand for their product or service.

Why does 90% of our population let the rich trick them into believing that giving the wealthy more money will allow the poor to join their ranks? If you're not in the top 10% right now, odds are you wont ever be. SO STOP CAMPAIGNING FOR THE RICH!

Lots of people work hard and dont become rich. Wealth is obtained through inheritance or hard work combined with random opportunity. There is no such thing as a self made millionaire.

reply to post by Pyros


This is a terrible analogy. We arent talking about beer. We are talking about, food, water, housing, clothing and basic necessities for the first 4 or 5 men. The tenth man has so much money that he has no need to even worry about any of those things that he takes for granted.

That is one thing that people fail to look at when it comes to taxes and quality of life. The majority of the income for most Americans goes to food, housing, healthcare, etc. Leaving very little for anything else. The other 10% have so much money that they never worry about paying for the basic necessities, they only worry about their status in the community or buying a replacement for the car they purchased a year ago.

When people complain about the poor not paying any taxes, i am disgusted. If the poor have it so well not paying taxes, maybe they should join them to see how "easy" they have it.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by Zanti Misfit

 

trickle down economics actually involves tax cuts and incentives for businesses with the idea that this will trickle down into the population in the form of lower prices for goods sold to the public, as well as more jobs being made available to the public.

The problem with this theory is that businesses will only lower prices if they have to, in order to survive. If you cut the taxes for a business, and they have extra income, no business owner will ever say: "You know I think we will lower all our prices to pass this tax savings on to the consumer." Never. But on the flip side if you raise their taxes, they usually do one of three things, raise prices, cut wages or fire employees. Sometimes all three. Businesses will use any excuse to raise prices.

A couple examples: Most economists will agree that raising minimum wage will actually increase incomes for businesses because it puts more money in the pocket of consumers, thus giving them more money to spend. But every time there is a minimum wage increase businesses will raise prices to "offset" the wage hike. Even though the data shows they will make out better in the end.

Another example is smoking bans in restaurants and bars. All the data shows that states that passed smoking ban legislation, had increases in restaurant/bar income because there were more people who would now go to that establishment because there wasnt smoking. Makes sense there are more non-smokers. But sure enough, I heard businesses all over stating they had to raise prices to compensate for the smoking ban.

And do you think when their profits didnt go down, they would drop their prices back to the original level? Nope.

A business will only lower their prices if it is necessary to compete.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
.....

People who are making 1million or more, have basically everything they could want or need. They are not spending that extra income, they are investing it in mutual funds, IRAs or saving it, these things do not create jobs. They only make the rich richer.

You just don't get it I guess. Even if someone doesn't spend the money in consumer goods, it still benefits the economy. What do you think the companies that have the extra 500,000 in Capital from the person investing in the Stock Market will do with that?

Even if the person with the $500,000 saved it, it will probably go into a CD or a Municipal Bond. That frees up $500,000 to be lent or more money to be used for other purposes that effect the economy in a positive way. That person might end up buying properties which doesn't hurt the economy either.

..........

Lots of people work hard and don't become rich. Wealth is obtained through inheritance or hard work combined with random opportunity. There is no such thing as a self made millionaire.

This is precisely why you won't become rich, you think you can't do it. I work with a group of people from various backgrounds and fields, we are all on our way, none of us through inheritance or just dumb luck. Trust me, our stories are all the same, we didn't start with much money, but we had the passion to make our various endeavors work. We are entrepreneurs who worked hard, but now we work on our business, not in our businesses. Most people never get out of the thought process of "I just have to work harder to make more money". You can make good money doing that, but you can't "breakout" doing that. Sooner or later you reach the peak of what you can achieve by doing it all yourself. I find that the more I hire people to do jobs I used to do, the faster my business grows. For example if I had a lawn service and I do all the work, there's a limit on what I can make. If I hire two crews and just market my business, I can keep growing and growing till I have 22 crews for example.

Most people never get out of working 'in" their business.


Higher taxes never help fuel economies.... they just suck more money out of the engine that drives everything.